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Thread: Anthony Joshua vs Andy Ruiz Jr 2 - Brit to return to New York’s Madison Square Garden

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    Default Re: Anthony Joshua vs Andy Ruiz Jr 2 - Brit to return to New York’s Madison Square Ga

    A bit like handing him the belts to hold, this seems like another mistake. Maybe Joshua thinks that some of the pressure is relieved by fighting away from home. He has a fight to win, an uphill struggle. He doesn't need the money but a huge event in the UK with his fans creating a cauldron of noise is an advantage, however slight, and certainly will not help Ruiz. Home Timezone, familiar surroundings and routines will all help lessen distractions because he will have to change enough as it is, for it not to be a rerun of the first disaster.
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    Default Re: Anthony Joshua vs Andy Ruiz Jr 2 - Brit to return to New York’s Madison Square Ga

    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by El Kabong View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Agreed. Part II should be a hell of a fight.
    Either that or exactly what YOU don't want to see (which would extend AJ's career a lot longer)


    This fight should be called 'Catch 22' precisely because of that...it's either going to be another brawl that AJ loses and the fans will love the action or a cagey veteran display from the bigger guy where the crowd goes home disappointed but AJ redeems himself with a win.

    Good point @El Kabong

    But...... I don't think it's quite "either/or". It was "either/or" with Wlad MANY times which is why I disliked his fights so much (Sultan, Povetkin, Haye, Fury.... should I continue?). I think there's a good middle ground where you fight smart and use your defensive boxing skills, but STILL provide enough offense (sans the excessive grappling and fouling) to make it interesting and entertaining.

    I would not be disappointed....... I repeat..... not disappointed..... with a fight where Joshua changes his tactics, defends himself against Ruiz's buzzsaw style, and at the same time uses effective aggression to pull out a win. It doesn't even have to be a knockout, but given the nature of these two guys, a knockout is the most likely outcome either way.

    I resist the notion that it has to be either an all-out brawl defense-be-damned....... or a boring chess match where you can go get a beer between actual punches.
    Well the Sanders and Brewster losses sapped Wlad's confidence and the Sam Peter bout really turned things around for him. His style early in his career was that of a gunslinger and it would have been very interesting had he kept that style and not had the pitfalls of Sanders & Brewster but he wouldn't have been the dominant champion he was without those IMO.


    AJ's confidence is an unknown right now, if he changes tactics and wins that change in style might become his security blanket...we'll have to wait and see. But if AJ gets rocked again by Ruiz and he doesn't know how to tie up or avoid further damage then he's peaked as a fighter and will never hold any title of meaning ever again.



    AJ is extremely lucky not to have fought Wilder IMO....Wilder has that Tommy Hearns kind of power. He doesn't have The Hitman's accuracy or sharpness all the time, but he does a great deal of damage when he lands. Imagine if he took the opportunity to attack Tyson Fury to the body every so often....a couple hooks to the body would stiffen him right up.
    "Drown in a vat of whiskey.....death where is thy sting?" - W.C. Fields.

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    Default Re: Anthony Joshua vs Andy Ruiz Jr 2 - Brit to return to New York’s Madison Square Ga

    Quote Originally Posted by Beanz View Post
    A bit like handing him the belts to hold, this seems like another mistake. Maybe Joshua thinks that some of the pressure is relieved by fighting away from home. He has a fight to win, an uphill struggle. He doesn't need the money but a huge event in the UK with his fans creating a cauldron of noise is an advantage, however slight, and certainly will not help Ruiz. Home Timezone, familiar surroundings and routines will all help lessen distractions because he will have to change enough as it is, for it not to be a rerun of the first disaster.

    I genuinely think Joshua feels pressure big time. He is a fantastic athlete and all that but he has always been a bit tense back to the amateur days.

    its really hard to get into a mindset where you want to show your best, but shaking away that fear of losing - when so many people depend on you - is hard.

    Joshua feels that a lot in all his fights. He seems like quite a bright guy, so it's impossible for him not to feel that, I would guess. Tense a lot of the time in the ring.
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    Default Re: Anthony Joshua vs Andy Ruiz Jr 2 - Brit to return to New York’s Madison Square Ga

    Quote Originally Posted by El Kabong View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by El Kabong View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Agreed. Part II should be a hell of a fight.
    Either that or exactly what YOU don't want to see (which would extend AJ's career a lot longer)


    This fight should be called 'Catch 22' precisely because of that...it's either going to be another brawl that AJ loses and the fans will love the action or a cagey veteran display from the bigger guy where the crowd goes home disappointed but AJ redeems himself with a win.

    Good point @El Kabong

    But...... I don't think it's quite "either/or". It was "either/or" with Wlad MANY times which is why I disliked his fights so much (Sultan, Povetkin, Haye, Fury.... should I continue?). I think there's a good middle ground where you fight smart and use your defensive boxing skills, but STILL provide enough offense (sans the excessive grappling and fouling) to make it interesting and entertaining.

    I would not be disappointed....... I repeat..... not disappointed..... with a fight where Joshua changes his tactics, defends himself against Ruiz's buzzsaw style, and at the same time uses effective aggression to pull out a win. It doesn't even have to be a knockout, but given the nature of these two guys, a knockout is the most likely outcome either way.

    I resist the notion that it has to be either an all-out brawl defense-be-damned....... or a boring chess match where you can go get a beer between actual punches.
    Well the Sanders and Brewster losses sapped Wlad's confidence and the Sam Peter bout really turned things around for him. His style early in his career was that of a gunslinger and it would have been very interesting had he kept that style and not had the pitfalls of Sanders & Brewster but he wouldn't have been the dominant champion he was without those IMO.


    AJ's confidence is an unknown right now, if he changes tactics and wins that change in style might become his security blanket...we'll have to wait and see. But if AJ gets rocked again by Ruiz and he doesn't know how to tie up or avoid further damage then he's peaked as a fighter and will never hold any title of meaning ever again.



    AJ is extremely lucky not to have fought Wilder IMO....Wilder has that Tommy Hearns kind of power. He doesn't have The Hitman's accuracy or sharpness all the time, but he does a great deal of damage when he lands. Imagine if he took the opportunity to attack Tyson Fury to the body every so often....a couple hooks to the body would stiffen him right up.


    No doubt Wlad wouldn't have lasted as long had he not gone "defense first, second, and third." I think his reign was a combination of his 180 degree switch to a totally defensive posture, while at the same time having the good fortune to face opposition that..... not saying they were all bad..... simply that some of them went into the ring like a lamb being led to slaughter. Huge Ray Austin comes to mind. What a total lack of a fighting mentality.

    With AJ I agree 100%. He needs some fundamental changes, and no one knows whether he's capable of it, probably not even those closest to him. The first time he gets chinned by Ruiz will say a LOT, as you say. It's how AJ reacts that will make or break the fight and subsequently have a huge impact on his future career.

    Agree on Wilder also. People love to slam Deontay for everything from saying things while his brain is on "pause"...... to having less of the classic boxing skills we all expect to see from professional boxers. But "Tommy Hearns power" is right. Like Tommy, Wilder is a comparative beanpole of a HW, but his one-punch power is undeniable. Even before the AJ-Ruiz fight I thought an AJ-Wilder fight was far from a foregone conclusion. Now even more so. Some claim Joshua only has problems with short, Butterbean-type fighters like Ruiz. Well..... before that fight they would've claimed Ruiz was no threat to Joshua.

    Ruiz's win was good for the division, IMO. It breaks it wide open. Some have flocked to Fury as "the last man standing". Not quite true just yet. Only rematch vs. Wilder will satisfy hardcore fans...... and his win over Schwartz can be summarily tossed in the garbage heap of meaningless fights.

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    Default Re: Anthony Joshua vs Andy Ruiz Jr 2 - Brit to return to New York’s Madison Square Ga

    It's a testament to how good a boxer Wlad was that other professionals went into the ring with seemingly no idea how to approach him....he didn't fight bad boxers, he fought a few who you could say weren't title contender caliber, a few who were limited in what they could achieve and then some very good fighters who just didn't know what to do. Ray Austin was felled in 2 rounds without a single right cross being thrown, Wlad ended him with the jab, footwork, and a series of left hooks and yet you consider him "defense first second & third"


    AJ shouldn't have lost to Ruiz, he fought dumb and honestly that's the only way I thought he could lose that fight. AJ did show me in the fight vs Ruiz that he's got piss poor upper body movement, he's got slow feet, and once you hurt him he's got no plan B. I never used to see the Frank Bruno comparison other than muscularity, but THAT was a Bruno-esque performance vs Ruiz. Everything is on the line vs someone you should beat left right and center and THAT is what we get? Poor

    Wilder is open to counter for someone who can get close enough. I think if a Chris Byrd or Michael Dokes were around he'd struggle with them.


    Tyson Fury is his own worst enemy, how long before another implosion? How long before he gloats in front of the wrong fighter? Also IF he were ever to need a KO to win could he get it? Does he have that power available?


    So as it stands yes Tyson Fury is probably in the best position especially having survived the knockdown vs Wilder, but that last fight was absolute shit. Can't always fight world beaters though, it was probably best he stay active even if it was poor competition.
    "Drown in a vat of whiskey.....death where is thy sting?" - W.C. Fields.

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    Default Re: Anthony Joshua vs Andy Ruiz Jr 2 - Brit to return to New York’s Madison Square Ga

    C'mon Lyle....... we both know "Rainman" was looking for a place to land softly since he stepped into the ring. He's one of those who entered the ring like a lamb being led to slaughter. Hardly a competitive heavyweight. Schwartz looked like Mike Tyson, Ali, and Joe Louis all rolled into one, in comparison with the crappy "effort" Austin turned in that night.

    You and I are going to continue to disagree on Wlad's parade of opponents, but I remember the Sultan, Povetkin, and Haye fights all too well. Sultan's feared left loomed over their entire fight, which in effect was little more than a pawing contest, to see who could paw the longest. Povetkin presented a real threat to Wlad, so Wlad resorted to the most outrageous display of grappling, fouling, and just throwing himself on the opponents back that I have ever had the misfortune of seeing.

    You'll see boxing prowess in the Povetkin fight. I'll see a disgraceful display of wrestling the likes of which I never care to see again. And don't even get me going on the Fury fight. Wlad threw 4 punches a round!!!!! Fury didn't win that fight. Wlad lost it by practically waving the white flag from the start. He let Fury get into his head like I've never seen any fighter get into another's head before.

    I give Wlad Sam Peter. I'll willingly give Wlad credit for ANY fight where the opponent came to fight and Wlad just outFOUGHT him ("fought" being the operative word here). In fact, even in a loss (to Joshua), I give Wlad all the credit in the world. He finally fights like a heavyweight champion, only to have the young gun outgun him. Did WONDERS for the heavyweight division.

    Remember..... boxing can't exist without fans. The heavyweight division was dying during Wlad's reign. Fans were being turned off by the droves. And it wasn't a "well.... Wlad isn't American" thing. I'd bet the American public would've gotten behind any nationality champion that would've given them what they crave. The Ali-Fraziers, the Holmes-Nortons, even now the Wilder-Furys. It's too bad Fury went and fought a human punching bag after Wilder..... but here's holding out hope that they have the rematch.

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    Default Re: Anthony Joshua vs Andy Ruiz Jr 2 - Brit to return to New York’s Madison Square Ga

    If fans were turned off to the division in droves why all the filled seats then? Comped tickets for everyone 60K worth of comped tickets?

    The guy was a great boxer it's the only reason he held the titles for as long as he did. He couldn't have done it otherwise. And yes he fought SMART to a fault at times...Sultan, Povetkin, Haye were looking to score 1 big shot and follow up and Wlad snuffed out every single chance they worked for themselves. Boring to you perhaps, but it takes skill to have a professional fighter unable/unwilling to let the hands go due to footwork, ring generalship, and yes a bending of the rules (all great fighters bend the rules).

    Sultan was a shifty SOB and NOBODY had an easy time with him. He had a draw with Ray Austin and other than that the only other blemish on his career was a loss to Wlad where Wlad pitched a shutout. Sultan fought Evander Holyfield and yeah Evander was almost 45 at the time, but he was still no pushover as after that Evander fought Valuev (and got robbed on the cards by the way). As for Evander's thoughts on Sultan "It was a great fight. He got the decision and I have to go back to the drawing board," Holyfield said. "He's a left-handed fighter, and moves a lot. I did the best that I could with the style that he had."....and that's ABSOLUTE LEGEND Hall of Famer Evander Holyfield saying that.

    Povetkin catches hell because of his propensity to never fight outside of Europe and his ability to fail the odd drug test. Overlooking that he is a tough fighter too! It took a prime Anthony Joshua 7 rounds to stop a 38 year old Povetkin not the one Wlad fought. And yet again Wlad pretty much pitched a shutout.


    As for Haye Wlad told everyone he was going to take Haye 12 for all the bullshit he spouted and also post fight Wlad said "He was very cautious", said Klitschko afterward. "He was very difficult to hit. Just like Ibragimov. I really didn't get challenged in the ring offensively. You know, like 'Let's fight!'. Instead he was like all of them, like all of my recent opponents. I would have loved to have celebrated my 50th knockout." so there you have it.

    but we'll never agree on that.


    I notice you don't mention Pulev...why? Wlad crushed that dude
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    Default Re: Anthony Joshua vs Andy Ruiz Jr 2 - Brit to return to New York’s Madison Square Ga

    Pulev came to fight. Wlad displayed awesome offense in that fight. Thus, Pulev belongs in this group.


    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    I'll willingly give Wlad credit for ANY fight where the opponent came to fight and Wlad just outFOUGHT him ("fought" being the operative word here).

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    Default Re: Anthony Joshua vs Andy Ruiz Jr 2 - Brit to return to New York’s Madison Square Ga

    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Pulev came to fight. Wlad displayed awesome offense in that fight. Thus, Pulev belongs in this group.


    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    I'll willingly give Wlad credit for ANY fight where the opponent came to fight and Wlad just outFOUGHT him ("fought" being the operative word here).
    Agreed but making Sultan to be some sort of great fighter because he beat an old Holyfield is stretching it.
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    Default Re: Anthony Joshua vs Andy Ruiz Jr 2 - Brit to return to New York’s Madison Square Ga

    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Pulev came to fight. Wlad displayed awesome offense in that fight. Thus, Pulev belongs in this group.


    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    I'll willingly give Wlad credit for ANY fight where the opponent came to fight and Wlad just outFOUGHT him ("fought" being the operative word here).
    Agreed but making Sultan to be some sort of great fighter because he beat an old Holyfield is stretching it.



    @Master where do you get this stuff? Who said anything about Sultan being a great fighter? Evander said after he fought Sultan "He's a left-handed fighter, and moves a lot. I did the best that I could with the style that he had." which was relevant to the situation due to how Evander's and Wlad's styles differ and yet both had similar troubles cornering Sultan and hitting him clean.


    So you see you are more than slightly wrong and you need to work on your reading comprehension.
    "Drown in a vat of whiskey.....death where is thy sting?" - W.C. Fields.

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