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Thread: Let's talk boxing promoters.... the scourge of boxing today

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  1. #16
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    Default Re: Let's talk boxing promoters.... the scourge of boxing today

    Has anyone here waffling about "the good old days," one belt, regular title defences, great promoters and perfect "judges" ever researched/read the history of boxing? The only thing that's changed is fighters are far, far more in control of their careers, have more opportunities and much better off. They aren't forced to fight, they choose too, like we choose whether or not to buy/watch.

    EVERYTHING is about risk-reward, always has been for every professional fighter.

    When facing Tunney, Dempsey hadn't fought in years yet it's The Ring mag upset of the decade. On the morning of the fight he was poisoned by someone in his team, there were huge bets involved, gangsters, missing officials and all round reported shady shit.
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    Default Re: Let's talk boxing promoters.... the scourge of boxing today

    I'm sorry you missed the irony in my post, Fenster. Of course it's impossible to compare boxing eras. My Dempsey-Tunney "marinating" comment was said pretty much tongue-in-cheek and in jest. I'm surprised it was taken seriously. Though the thread deviated slightly into the "good old days", my point (and original intent of the thread) remains. Promoters are the scourge of boxing and the main reason we don't get to see the fights we want WHEN we want them... if at all. Nothing more, nothing less.

    Having people point out the economic structure of boxing does nothing to change my opinion or my assertions. The fact is that today, different from yesteryear, we're reduced to moaning and bitching about fights that should have been... and some of us (not me) seem content with talking about contracts and dollars and cents. In a way it's like a giant, virtual pacifier for fans who'd rather be talking about fights.

    I'm pretty clear about the past of boxing, but I appreciate the reminder. It puts things in perspective for those who need it.

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    Default Re: Let's talk boxing promoters.... the scourge of boxing today

    Good and old are a oxymoron

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    Default Re: Let's talk boxing promoters.... the scourge of boxing today

    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing View Post
    Boxing is not like the NFL or the NBA where you can buy a franchise and the franchise has a set number of guaranteed games every year, a gigantic regular guaranteed amount of money from TV every year, even very predictable guaranteed income from merchandising/food and drink at your stadium/arena etc.

    Professional boxers don't have a pot to piss in when they start boxing for a living. There wouldn't be any fights at all if it wasn't for a bunch of sleazy fuckers putting up their own cash to put the fights on. And it's not a guaranteed thing -- plenty of people have tried and failed. You've got to subsidise a whole bunch of fighters, put them on a wage and pay their expenses and hope that some day one of them makes you some money and you can turn a profit on the whole enterprise. The regulatory system in boxing -- such as it is -- the sanctioning bodies, local commissions and so on has just evolved around the money guys who put the fights on. Various commissions operate basic health checks and supply officials and so on with their costs ultimately borne by the promoters (places like Vegas are a little different, the casinos basically fund the Nevada commission). The sanctioning bodies exist to make a profit too. They basically rent belts to various promoters so that their fighters can fight for and hold "world" titles.

    The bottom line for boxing is that it's impossible to create what you have in other sports. There's no team or brand that can go on for ever, no leagues with guaranteed games/TV coverage/merchandising/sponsorship and so on for your team. It's just that bunch of sleazy guys putting their cash up in the hope of making a profit. And because it begins and ends with the promoters the whole structure of professional boxing can't be altered.


    No... boxing is not like the NFL or the NBA... you're right. Except in one critical way. They depend on the fans. For all the "guarantees" you mention, none of them are worth spit if the fans don't go see the games. Empty stadiums can last only for so long. Again... professional sports are a product. We the fans are the consumers. However the business is structured, the rules of supply and demand still apply.

    You forgot to mention golf and tennis players. Very few of professional golfers or tennis players are the Federers, Nadals, and Woods of the world. There's hundreds, maybe more, of pros who barely make enough money to remain on tour. Prize money below the top players drops off significantly. Yet they remain and persist. They continue because they enjoy what they're doing... and because maybe lightning will strike once in awhile and they'll win something.

    So I appreciate you trying to make boxing into this totally different monster in the world of sports. But I refuse to believe that we (the consumers) have to continue to accept a totally damaged product.

    That there are good, decent fighters, promoters, and other boxing people out there who want to bring fans the best? Absolutely. But I'm not buying the "oh but boxing's different" ball of wax.

    You say boxing's structure can't be altered and we have to take it or leave it? Fine... that's your prerogative. Just remember... boxing might be one of the world's oldest sports... but fans of today are different from those of yesterday. Plus there are a lot more products out there competing for our consumer dollars. I still think promoters could be under a set of rules. Nothing too binding. Just enough to ensure they don't hold the sport hostage.
    You can't have any set of rules govering promoters other than what exists. Promoters are the people putting up the money for the fights. Without the promoters professional boxing doesn't exist. It's never going to change.

  5. #20
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    Default Re: Let's talk boxing promoters.... the scourge of boxing today

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing View Post
    Boxing is not like the NFL or the NBA where you can buy a franchise and the franchise has a set number of guaranteed games every year, a gigantic regular guaranteed amount of money from TV every year, even very predictable guaranteed income from merchandising/food and drink at your stadium/arena etc.

    Professional boxers don't have a pot to piss in when they start boxing for a living. There wouldn't be any fights at all if it wasn't for a bunch of sleazy fuckers putting up their own cash to put the fights on. And it's not a guaranteed thing -- plenty of people have tried and failed. You've got to subsidise a whole bunch of fighters, put them on a wage and pay their expenses and hope that some day one of them makes you some money and you can turn a profit on the whole enterprise. The regulatory system in boxing -- such as it is -- the sanctioning bodies, local commissions and so on has just evolved around the money guys who put the fights on. Various commissions operate basic health checks and supply officials and so on with their costs ultimately borne by the promoters (places like Vegas are a little different, the casinos basically fund the Nevada commission). The sanctioning bodies exist to make a profit too. They basically rent belts to various promoters so that their fighters can fight for and hold "world" titles.

    The bottom line for boxing is that it's impossible to create what you have in other sports. There's no team or brand that can go on for ever, no leagues with guaranteed games/TV coverage/merchandising/sponsorship and so on for your team. It's just that bunch of sleazy guys putting their cash up in the hope of making a profit. And because it begins and ends with the promoters the whole structure of professional boxing can't be altered.


    No... boxing is not like the NFL or the NBA... you're right. Except in one critical way. They depend on the fans. For all the "guarantees" you mention, none of them are worth spit if the fans don't go see the games. Empty stadiums can last only for so long. Again... professional sports are a product. We the fans are the consumers. However the business is structured, the rules of supply and demand still apply.

    You forgot to mention golf and tennis players. Very few of professional golfers or tennis players are the Federers, Nadals, and Woods of the world. There's hundreds, maybe more, of pros who barely make enough money to remain on tour. Prize money below the top players drops off significantly. Yet they remain and persist. They continue because they enjoy what they're doing... and because maybe lightning will strike once in awhile and they'll win something.

    So I appreciate you trying to make boxing into this totally different monster in the world of sports. But I refuse to believe that we (the consumers) have to continue to accept a totally damaged product.

    That there are good, decent fighters, promoters, and other boxing people out there who want to bring fans the best? Absolutely. But I'm not buying the "oh but boxing's different" ball of wax.

    You say boxing's structure can't be altered and we have to take it or leave it? Fine... that's your prerogative. Just remember... boxing might be one of the world's oldest sports... but fans of today are different from those of yesterday. Plus there are a lot more products out there competing for our consumer dollars. I still think promoters could be under a set of rules. Nothing too binding. Just enough to ensure they don't hold the sport hostage.
    You can't have any set of rules govering promoters other than what exists. Promoters are the people putting up the money for the fights. Without the promoters professional boxing doesn't exist. It's never going to change.
    It is TV companies that put up the money which ultimately comes from the fans that pay per view these contests. They want exclusivity of the fighter, promoters want exclusivity of the channel and groups are created which get in the way of big fights. Boycott ppv and hit them where it hurts.
    Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.

  6. #21
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    Default Re: Let's talk boxing promoters.... the scourge of boxing today

    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing View Post
    Boxing is not like the NFL or the NBA where you can buy a franchise and the franchise has a set number of guaranteed games every year, a gigantic regular guaranteed amount of money from TV every year, even very predictable guaranteed income from merchandising/food and drink at your stadium/arena etc.

    Professional boxers don't have a pot to piss in when they start boxing for a living. There wouldn't be any fights at all if it wasn't for a bunch of sleazy fuckers putting up their own cash to put the fights on. And it's not a guaranteed thing -- plenty of people have tried and failed. You've got to subsidise a whole bunch of fighters, put them on a wage and pay their expenses and hope that some day one of them makes you some money and you can turn a profit on the whole enterprise. The regulatory system in boxing -- such as it is -- the sanctioning bodies, local commissions and so on has just evolved around the money guys who put the fights on. Various commissions operate basic health checks and supply officials and so on with their costs ultimately borne by the promoters (places like Vegas are a little different, the casinos basically fund the Nevada commission). The sanctioning bodies exist to make a profit too. They basically rent belts to various promoters so that their fighters can fight for and hold "world" titles.

    The bottom line for boxing is that it's impossible to create what you have in other sports. There's no team or brand that can go on for ever, no leagues with guaranteed games/TV coverage/merchandising/sponsorship and so on for your team. It's just that bunch of sleazy guys putting their cash up in the hope of making a profit. And because it begins and ends with the promoters the whole structure of professional boxing can't be altered.


    No... boxing is not like the NFL or the NBA... you're right. Except in one critical way. They depend on the fans. For all the "guarantees" you mention, none of them are worth spit if the fans don't go see the games. Empty stadiums can last only for so long. Again... professional sports are a product. We the fans are the consumers. However the business is structured, the rules of supply and demand still apply.

    You forgot to mention golf and tennis players. Very few of professional golfers or tennis players are the Federers, Nadals, and Woods of the world. There's hundreds, maybe more, of pros who barely make enough money to remain on tour. Prize money below the top players drops off significantly. Yet they remain and persist. They continue because they enjoy what they're doing... and because maybe lightning will strike once in awhile and they'll win something.

    So I appreciate you trying to make boxing into this totally different monster in the world of sports. But I refuse to believe that we (the consumers) have to continue to accept a totally damaged product.

    That there are good, decent fighters, promoters, and other boxing people out there who want to bring fans the best? Absolutely. But I'm not buying the "oh but boxing's different" ball of wax.

    You say boxing's structure can't be altered and we have to take it or leave it? Fine... that's your prerogative. Just remember... boxing might be one of the world's oldest sports... but fans of today are different from those of yesterday. Plus there are a lot more products out there competing for our consumer dollars. I still think promoters could be under a set of rules. Nothing too binding. Just enough to ensure they don't hold the sport hostage.
    You can't have any set of rules govering promoters other than what exists. Promoters are the people putting up the money for the fights. Without the promoters professional boxing doesn't exist. It's never going to change.
    It is TV companies that put up the money which ultimately comes from the fans that pay per view these contests. They want exclusivity of the fighter, promoters want exclusivity of the channel and groups are created which get in the way of big fights. Boycott ppv and hit them where it hurts.


    Boycotts will never happen in boxing. Boxing fans grab whatever scraps are tossed at them by the promoter/network conglomerates, who laugh all the way to the bank.

    The product keeps getting worse and worse, and boxing fans continue to grovel for more.... and paying good money for it.

    Like dogs fighting over a dried up bone, some fans then turn their attention to who got the better contract and how the negotiations are going.

    Personally I'd rather watch grass grow.



    Promoters put up money for fights... so what. It's not outlandish to ask them to adhere to some not-too-stringent rules of engagement, to avoid the awful god stinking mess we get every time two highly touted fighters get anywhere sniffing distance from each other. Like I said... fighters want it... fans want it... what's the hold up. It's not like promoters are dying of hunger. But if the effort isn't made, nothing gets done. Simple as.

  7. #22
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    Default Re: Let's talk boxing promoters.... the scourge of boxing today

    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing View Post
    Boxing is not like the NFL or the NBA where you can buy a franchise and the franchise has a set number of guaranteed games every year, a gigantic regular guaranteed amount of money from TV every year, even very predictable guaranteed income from merchandising/food and drink at your stadium/arena etc.

    Professional boxers don't have a pot to piss in when they start boxing for a living. There wouldn't be any fights at all if it wasn't for a bunch of sleazy fuckers putting up their own cash to put the fights on. And it's not a guaranteed thing -- plenty of people have tried and failed. You've got to subsidise a whole bunch of fighters, put them on a wage and pay their expenses and hope that some day one of them makes you some money and you can turn a profit on the whole enterprise. The regulatory system in boxing -- such as it is -- the sanctioning bodies, local commissions and so on has just evolved around the money guys who put the fights on. Various commissions operate basic health checks and supply officials and so on with their costs ultimately borne by the promoters (places like Vegas are a little different, the casinos basically fund the Nevada commission). The sanctioning bodies exist to make a profit too. They basically rent belts to various promoters so that their fighters can fight for and hold "world" titles.

    The bottom line for boxing is that it's impossible to create what you have in other sports. There's no team or brand that can go on for ever, no leagues with guaranteed games/TV coverage/merchandising/sponsorship and so on for your team. It's just that bunch of sleazy guys putting their cash up in the hope of making a profit. And because it begins and ends with the promoters the whole structure of professional boxing can't be altered.


    No... boxing is not like the NFL or the NBA... you're right. Except in one critical way. They depend on the fans. For all the "guarantees" you mention, none of them are worth spit if the fans don't go see the games. Empty stadiums can last only for so long. Again... professional sports are a product. We the fans are the consumers. However the business is structured, the rules of supply and demand still apply.

    You forgot to mention golf and tennis players. Very few of professional golfers or tennis players are the Federers, Nadals, and Woods of the world. There's hundreds, maybe more, of pros who barely make enough money to remain on tour. Prize money below the top players drops off significantly. Yet they remain and persist. They continue because they enjoy what they're doing... and because maybe lightning will strike once in awhile and they'll win something.

    So I appreciate you trying to make boxing into this totally different monster in the world of sports. But I refuse to believe that we (the consumers) have to continue to accept a totally damaged product.

    That there are good, decent fighters, promoters, and other boxing people out there who want to bring fans the best? Absolutely. But I'm not buying the "oh but boxing's different" ball of wax.

    You say boxing's structure can't be altered and we have to take it or leave it? Fine... that's your prerogative. Just remember... boxing might be one of the world's oldest sports... but fans of today are different from those of yesterday. Plus there are a lot more products out there competing for our consumer dollars. I still think promoters could be under a set of rules. Nothing too binding. Just enough to ensure they don't hold the sport hostage.
    You can't have any set of rules govering promoters other than what exists. Promoters are the people putting up the money for the fights. Without the promoters professional boxing doesn't exist. It's never going to change.
    It is TV companies that put up the money which ultimately comes from the fans that pay per view these contests. They want exclusivity of the fighter, promoters want exclusivity of the channel and groups are created which get in the way of big fights. Boycott ppv and hit them where it hurts.
    Before you get anywhere near the telly you have to have somebody back you and underwrite the costs of your training, pay your bills and so on. Being a promoter means you're investing a lot of money in novice pros, most of whom you'll lose money on. When you do get one who you actually make money with he's one punch away from losing you money again so it's entirely understandable that promoters are going to do everything they can to protect their fighters and maximise the amount of money they can make out of them. That is never going to change and precludes any chance of any kind of organisation of boxing other than what already exists. You're just not going to find a bunch of philanthropists out there who will invest time and money to create top fighters who will then make the fans the fights want to see and not worry about making money out of them. It's not going to happen.

  8. #23
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    Default Re: Let's talk boxing promoters.... the scourge of boxing today

    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing View Post
    Boxing is not like the NFL or the NBA where you can buy a franchise and the franchise has a set number of guaranteed games every year, a gigantic regular guaranteed amount of money from TV every year, even very predictable guaranteed income from merchandising/food and drink at your stadium/arena etc.

    Professional boxers don't have a pot to piss in when they start boxing for a living. There wouldn't be any fights at all if it wasn't for a bunch of sleazy fuckers putting up their own cash to put the fights on. And it's not a guaranteed thing -- plenty of people have tried and failed. You've got to subsidise a whole bunch of fighters, put them on a wage and pay their expenses and hope that some day one of them makes you some money and you can turn a profit on the whole enterprise. The regulatory system in boxing -- such as it is -- the sanctioning bodies, local commissions and so on has just evolved around the money guys who put the fights on. Various commissions operate basic health checks and supply officials and so on with their costs ultimately borne by the promoters (places like Vegas are a little different, the casinos basically fund the Nevada commission). The sanctioning bodies exist to make a profit too. They basically rent belts to various promoters so that their fighters can fight for and hold "world" titles.

    The bottom line for boxing is that it's impossible to create what you have in other sports. There's no team or brand that can go on for ever, no leagues with guaranteed games/TV coverage/merchandising/sponsorship and so on for your team. It's just that bunch of sleazy guys putting their cash up in the hope of making a profit. And because it begins and ends with the promoters the whole structure of professional boxing can't be altered.


    No... boxing is not like the NFL or the NBA... you're right. Except in one critical way. They depend on the fans. For all the "guarantees" you mention, none of them are worth spit if the fans don't go see the games. Empty stadiums can last only for so long. Again... professional sports are a product. We the fans are the consumers. However the business is structured, the rules of supply and demand still apply.

    You forgot to mention golf and tennis players. Very few of professional golfers or tennis players are the Federers, Nadals, and Woods of the world. There's hundreds, maybe more, of pros who barely make enough money to remain on tour. Prize money below the top players drops off significantly. Yet they remain and persist. They continue because they enjoy what they're doing... and because maybe lightning will strike once in awhile and they'll win something.

    So I appreciate you trying to make boxing into this totally different monster in the world of sports. But I refuse to believe that we (the consumers) have to continue to accept a totally damaged product.

    That there are good, decent fighters, promoters, and other boxing people out there who want to bring fans the best? Absolutely. But I'm not buying the "oh but boxing's different" ball of wax.

    You say boxing's structure can't be altered and we have to take it or leave it? Fine... that's your prerogative. Just remember... boxing might be one of the world's oldest sports... but fans of today are different from those of yesterday. Plus there are a lot more products out there competing for our consumer dollars. I still think promoters could be under a set of rules. Nothing too binding. Just enough to ensure they don't hold the sport hostage.
    You can't have any set of rules govering promoters other than what exists. Promoters are the people putting up the money for the fights. Without the promoters professional boxing doesn't exist. It's never going to change.
    It is TV companies that put up the money which ultimately comes from the fans that pay per view these contests. They want exclusivity of the fighter, promoters want exclusivity of the channel and groups are created which get in the way of big fights. Boycott ppv and hit them where it hurts.


    Boycotts will never happen in boxing. Boxing fans grab whatever scraps are tossed at them by the promoter/network conglomerates, who laugh all the way to the bank.

    The product keeps getting worse and worse, and boxing fans continue to grovel for more.... and paying good money for it.

    Like dogs fighting over a dried up bone, some fans then turn their attention to who got the better contract and how the negotiations are going.

    Personally I'd rather watch grass grow.



    Promoters put up money for fights... so what. It's not outlandish to ask them to adhere to some not-too-stringent rules of engagement, to avoid the awful god stinking mess we get every time two highly touted fighters get anywhere sniffing distance from each other. Like I said... fighters want it... fans want it... what's the hold up. It's not like promoters are dying of hunger. But if the effort isn't made, nothing gets done. Simple as.
    Spot on with the bolded part. Fans don't really have that much influence. If they did big fights would happen more often and when they are meant to happen. Boxing is far below standard in that regard. Joshua/Wilder? Mayweather/Manny? Just two examples of fights that the money men either wouldn't let happen or delayed beyond all point or meaning.
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    Default Re: Let's talk boxing promoters.... the scourge of boxing today

    Damn mouse didn't click. But I especially liked the first point, Tits. Fans are largely taken for mugs and the system is weighted heavily in favor of those who do actually control it. If a product sells, they generally want to maximize its usage before something better comes along.
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    Default Re: Let's talk boxing promoters.... the scourge of boxing today

    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
    Damn mouse didn't click. But I especially liked the first point, Tits. Fans are largely taken for mugs and the system is weighted heavily in favor of those who do actually control it. If a product sells, they generally want to maximize its usage before something better comes along.
    How many boxing bills have you attended?
    3-Time SADDO PREDICTION COMP CHAMPION.

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    Default Re: Let's talk boxing promoters.... the scourge of boxing today

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
    Damn mouse didn't click. But I especially liked the first point, Tits. Fans are largely taken for mugs and the system is weighted heavily in favor of those who do actually control it. If a product sells, they generally want to maximize its usage before something better comes along.
    How many boxing bills have you attended?
    Not really addressing the fact that fans do not get to determine the fights that they inevitably see. You know full well I do not get to see much boxing in the flesh. No fan asked to see Calzaghe/Manfredo and yet it was given to them and many lapped it up and that is a shame. Maximizing usage of the product, but a waste of prime product. To be fair to Calzaghe he did pick it up.
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  12. #27
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    Default Re: Let's talk boxing promoters.... the scourge of boxing today

    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
    Damn mouse didn't click. But I especially liked the first point, Tits. Fans are largely taken for mugs and the system is weighted heavily in favor of those who do actually control it. If a product sells, they generally want to maximize its usage before something better comes along.
    How many boxing bills have you attended?
    Not really addressing the fact that fans do not get to determine the fights that they inevitably see. You know full well I do not get to see much boxing in the flesh. No fan asked to see Calzaghe/Manfredo and yet it was given to them and many lapped it up and that is a shame. Maximizing usage of the product, but a waste of prime product. To be fair to Calzaghe he did pick it up.
    Exactly. I'm not singling you out, but you're hardly a super hardcore boxing fan, you watch a small select number of fights every year, that's it. "Fans" aren't taken for mugs, it's just some fans enjoy boxing more than others, there are literally dozens and dozens of great matchups every month let alone year.

    The same "mugs" who lapped up Calzaghe-Manfredo (35,000 tickets, millions watching on ITV and HBO) paved the way for Kessler, Hopkins and Roy fights. Without "mugs," you and your ilk don't get your handful of "hollywood" events each year. That's all.
    3-Time SADDO PREDICTION COMP CHAMPION.

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    Default Re: Let's talk boxing promoters.... the scourge of boxing today

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
    Damn mouse didn't click. But I especially liked the first point, Tits. Fans are largely taken for mugs and the system is weighted heavily in favor of those who do actually control it. If a product sells, they generally want to maximize its usage before something better comes along.
    How many boxing bills have you attended?
    Not really addressing the fact that fans do not get to determine the fights that they inevitably see. You know full well I do not get to see much boxing in the flesh. No fan asked to see Calzaghe/Manfredo and yet it was given to them and many lapped it up and that is a shame. Maximizing usage of the product, but a waste of prime product. To be fair to Calzaghe he did pick it up.
    Exactly. I'm not singling you out, but you're hardly a super hardcore boxing fan, you watch a small select number of fights every year, that's it. "Fans" aren't taken for mugs, it's just some fans enjoy boxing more than others, there are literally dozens and dozens of great matchups every month let alone year.

    The same "mugs" who lapped up Calzaghe-Manfredo (35,000 tickets, millions watching on ITV and HBO) paved the way for Kessler, Hopkins and Roy fights. Without "mugs," you and your ilk don't get your handful of "hollywood" events each year. That's all.
    At the same time fights between prime fighters are missed or else delayed beyond recognition. I watch boxing many a weekend like anyone else, but I am certainly not someone who was lining up to see Calzaghe/Manfredo. I am a big Joe fan, but was honest enough to say that it was meaningless and that indeed it does make a mug of people watching. I see them as gullible and part of the problem rather than superfans. One should be honest about bad matchups or mismatches.

    When Calzaghe was fighting Lacy or Hopkins or Eubank you could only have praise, but I see where somone like Al might be negative as some of those defences were against weak opponents. Warren is at it again lately with Fury. Cashing in and then and only then putting him back into danger. I find it cynical.

    I think there is an unhealthy interest in the zero and it would be great if boxing wouldn't allow fights like Pac/Mayweather to wait half a decade. Boxing is great when greats fight greats and more of that would make boxing greater too.

    One belt, one champ and regular best against the best fights. Boxing has diluted itself by straying from that. Compare the 70's HW's to today. Everyone fought everyone and again and again if need be. That's all it takes.
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  14. #29
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    Default Re: Let's talk boxing promoters.... the scourge of boxing today

    Yep, all you non-mug "fans" always know what's best for boxing and how to "fix" it. You're all experts (especially with hindsight), know exactly what matches people should watch and what is pointless.

    In the past few weeks, off the top of my head we've had

    Spence-Porter (FOTY candidate)
    Fury-Otto (almost upset of the year)
    Loma-Campbell (P4P no.1 / two elite lightweights)
    Kovalev-Yarde (almost another upset)
    Browne-Pascal (big veteran upset)
    Ramirez-Hooker (140 Unification / FOTY-ish)

    Did you enjoy any? Watch any? Know who they are? "Back in the 70s, regular defences, best against best" ..... do me a favour, fake arse fans (no disrespect)
    3-Time SADDO PREDICTION COMP CHAMPION.

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    Default Re: Let's talk boxing promoters.... the scourge of boxing today

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing View Post
    Boxing is not like the NFL or the NBA where you can buy a franchise and the franchise has a set number of guaranteed games every year, a gigantic regular guaranteed amount of money from TV every year, even very predictable guaranteed income from merchandising/food and drink at your stadium/arena etc.

    Professional boxers don't have a pot to piss in when they start boxing for a living. There wouldn't be any fights at all if it wasn't for a bunch of sleazy fuckers putting up their own cash to put the fights on. And it's not a guaranteed thing -- plenty of people have tried and failed. You've got to subsidise a whole bunch of fighters, put them on a wage and pay their expenses and hope that some day one of them makes you some money and you can turn a profit on the whole enterprise. The regulatory system in boxing -- such as it is -- the sanctioning bodies, local commissions and so on has just evolved around the money guys who put the fights on. Various commissions operate basic health checks and supply officials and so on with their costs ultimately borne by the promoters (places like Vegas are a little different, the casinos basically fund the Nevada commission). The sanctioning bodies exist to make a profit too. They basically rent belts to various promoters so that their fighters can fight for and hold "world" titles.

    The bottom line for boxing is that it's impossible to create what you have in other sports. There's no team or brand that can go on for ever, no leagues with guaranteed games/TV coverage/merchandising/sponsorship and so on for your team. It's just that bunch of sleazy guys putting their cash up in the hope of making a profit. And because it begins and ends with the promoters the whole structure of professional boxing can't be altered.


    No... boxing is not like the NFL or the NBA... you're right. Except in one critical way. They depend on the fans. For all the "guarantees" you mention, none of them are worth spit if the fans don't go see the games. Empty stadiums can last only for so long. Again... professional sports are a product. We the fans are the consumers. However the business is structured, the rules of supply and demand still apply.

    You forgot to mention golf and tennis players. Very few of professional golfers or tennis players are the Federers, Nadals, and Woods of the world. There's hundreds, maybe more, of pros who barely make enough money to remain on tour. Prize money below the top players drops off significantly. Yet they remain and persist. They continue because they enjoy what they're doing... and because maybe lightning will strike once in awhile and they'll win something.

    So I appreciate you trying to make boxing into this totally different monster in the world of sports. But I refuse to believe that we (the consumers) have to continue to accept a totally damaged product.

    That there are good, decent fighters, promoters, and other boxing people out there who want to bring fans the best? Absolutely. But I'm not buying the "oh but boxing's different" ball of wax.

    You say boxing's structure can't be altered and we have to take it or leave it? Fine... that's your prerogative. Just remember... boxing might be one of the world's oldest sports... but fans of today are different from those of yesterday. Plus there are a lot more products out there competing for our consumer dollars. I still think promoters could be under a set of rules. Nothing too binding. Just enough to ensure they don't hold the sport hostage.
    You can't have any set of rules govering promoters other than what exists. Promoters are the people putting up the money for the fights. Without the promoters professional boxing doesn't exist. It's never going to change.
    It is TV companies that put up the money which ultimately comes from the fans that pay per view these contests. They want exclusivity of the fighter, promoters want exclusivity of the channel and groups are created which get in the way of big fights. Boycott ppv and hit them where it hurts.
    Before you get anywhere near the telly you have to have somebody back you and underwrite the costs of your training, pay your bills and so on. Being a promoter means you're investing a lot of money in novice pros, most of whom you'll lose money on. When you do get one who you actually make money with he's one punch away from losing you money again so it's entirely understandable that promoters are going to do everything they can to protect their fighters and maximise the amount of money they can make out of them. That is never going to change and precludes any chance of any kind of organisation of boxing other than what already exists. You're just not going to find a bunch of philanthropists out there who will invest time and money to create top fighters who will then make the fans the fights want to see and not worry about making money out of them. It's not going to happen.


    I appreciate you trying to paint promoters as these poor, risk-taking souls who sink their life savings into young pugs in the hopes that someday they'll make some money to put food on the table. But I assure you, we're no longer in the 1950's. Most promoters have plenty of money, and are not risking their livelihoods when they take on a promising fighter. You have a handful of former boxers who have made their millions and are now engaging in boxing promotions (DLH, PBF, Cotto... to name a few). You also have your old fogies who have already made their millions in boxing and are not hurting for money (Arum, for instance). Others have made their fortunes in other businesses and then choose to pursue boxing promotions. So you'll excuse me if I don't shed a tear for the plight of poor boxing promoters.

    Also, let's dispense with the fallacy that promoters sink $$$$ into just any Joe, Dick and Harry that shows up on their doorstep. I'm pretty sure these guys who find good promoters are ones with actual promising futures, who have already shown a remarkable set of skills. So again... it's hard for me to feel sorry for promoters at this point.

    Hey..... I get it that some of you get off on the economics of boxing, I really do. All the more power to you. You want to fill reams and reams of boxing threads with arguments over who makes more money than who..... and why Boxer X never got to face Boxer Y...... go for it. Let's just be honest and call a spade a spade. Boxing promoters are by and large a bunch of greedy bastards who'd rather risk huge fights not being made, rather than take 5% less than the rival promoter, just because that's the type of greedy bastards they are.

    Another thing. Never fails to amaze me how good boxing fans are at disparaging one another (not you necessarily). "Mug fans"..... "fake arse fans"...... "casual fans"..... there is definitely no shortage of names for boxing fans to throw to one another. It's hilarious to me how fans are reduced to arguing about the financials of boxing, when all we really want to do is watch the fights we want to watch. And we're willing to pay good money for them! It's not like we're asking for them for free. Meanwhile, while we're reduced to arguing about contracts and who ducked who, because the big fights don't get made.... promoters are laughing their ass off because they have a fail-safe product which they can sell no matter how long it's been since its expiration date.

    Finance is not my cup of tea. I do my personal finances and do pretty well, thanks very much. But for entertainment I like boxing. And again I couldn't give less of a flying one about any of the economics of the boxers and/or promoters.

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