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Thread: Floyd or Pacquiao, who ranks higher?

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    Default Floyd or Pacquiao, who ranks higher?

    Who ranks higher all time? I say Floyd is the better fighter (more skilled), while Pacquiao is the greater fighter (better resume and accomplishments).

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    Default Re: Floyd or Pacquiao, who ranks higher?

    Floyd. I think when it really comes down to it, Floyd easily beat Pacquiao. I would say whoever won that fight got to claim a higher ranking over the other. And I don’t want to hear about Pacquiao being smaller and fighting at a bigger weight. Floyd was a small welterweight and Pacquiao proved welterweight to most likely be his best weight (he was most dominant at that weight).

    I think that overall, Pacquiao has the better resume, but he has also lost on multiple occasions. Floyd only had a few close fights. I think that Floyd proved to be the greater fighter.

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    Default Re: Floyd or Pacquiao, who ranks higher?

    As said Floyd has the victory in the head to head and the '0'.

    Not really a close decision for me
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    Default Re: Floyd or Pacquiao, who ranks higher?

    Pacquiao took lots of risks during his career. He managed weight divisions like few others before or after him. Losses do not necessarily diminish a fighter's career in my eyes. Especially when so many "0"s are nurtured like newborn babies. Can't argue with head-to-head, though. Floyd better fighter of the two... Pacquiao more impressive career.

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    Default Re: Floyd or Pacquiao, who ranks higher?

    Floyd is a great boxer, but holy shit he tippy toed his way to keeping that 0. Hell of a boxer, but you just wonder...WHAT IF.


    What if Casamayor or Freitas at 130
    What if a younger De la Hoya and Mosley
    What if Hatton at 140
    What if Cotto pre-Margarito with a trainer he still had full confidence in
    What if a younger Zab Judah
    What if Kostya Tszyu
    What if Paul Williams
    What if Margarito
    What if Sergio Martinez
    What if GGG

    I mean is Floyd still a favorite to beat those guys? Probably. Does he still beat those guys? Most likely....but as a fan it's not getting to see those big fights ever happen that sucks.


    Floyd made a bunch of money, he is the A#1 boxer known worldwide, he can do exhibition bouts vs anyone and make millions, but to me as a fan his career is a disappointment because he was too much about self preservation and not enough about having a challenge and testing himself.

    Is it better to have a loss or two or have all the what ifs? I mean with the lower weight class fighters speculation does run rampant about catchweights (that's another bullshit thing) which fighter moves up or down what are the advantages. Strategywise, setting up matchups Floyd is a genius and hell he still had to make the business happen in the ring....I'm in awe of that......still I'm thinking he could have been undeniably the greatest by making different matchups at different points in his career and the careers of other fighters but oh well.
    Last edited by El Kabong; 11-06-2019 at 04:58 PM.
    "Drown in a vat of whiskey.....death where is thy sting?" - W.C. Fields.

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    Default Re: Floyd or Pacquiao, who ranks higher?

    Quote Originally Posted by El Kabong View Post
    Floyd is a great boxer, but holy shit he tippy toed his way to keeping that 0. Hell of a boxer, but you just wonder...WHAT IF.


    What if Casamayor or Freitas at 130
    What if a younger De la Hoya and Mosley
    What if Hatton at 140
    What if Cotto pre-Margarito with a trainer he still had full confidence in
    What if a younger Zab Judah
    What if Kostya Tszyu
    What if Paul Williams
    What if Margarito
    What if Sergio Martinez
    What if GGG

    I mean is Floyd still a favorite to beat those guys? Probably. Does he still beat those guys? Most likely....but as a fan it's not getting to see those big fights ever happen that sucks.


    Floyd made a bunch of money, he is the A#1 boxer known worldwide, he can do exhibition bouts vs anyone and make millions, but to me as a fan his career is a disappointment because he was too much about self preservation and not enough about having a challenge and testing himself.

    Is it better to have a loss or two or have all the what ifs? I mean with the lower weight class fighters speculation does run rampant about catchweights (that's another bullshit thing) which fighter moves up or down what are the advantages. Strategywise, setting up matchups Floyd is a genius and hell he still had to make the business happen in the ring....I'm in awe of that......still I'm thinking he could have been undeniably the greatest by making different matchups at different points in his career and the careers of other fighters but oh well.
    I think that Floyd ducking is very overstated. I feel that he maybe swerved a few people, but overall, he fought good fighters. And some of those people that he “ducked” he actually called out and they avoided him. Remember, Floyd wasn’t Money Mayweather until after the De La Hoya fight. People avoided him before that because he didn’t produce the big paycheck.

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    Default Re: Floyd or Pacquiao, who ranks higher?

    Quote Originally Posted by El Kabong View Post
    Floyd is a great boxer, but holy shit he tippy toed his way to keeping that 0. Hell of a boxer, but you just wonder...WHAT IF.


    What if Casamayor or Freitas at 130
    What if a younger De la Hoya and Mosley
    What if Hatton at 140
    What if Cotto pre-Margarito with a trainer he still had full confidence in
    What if a younger Zab Judah
    What if Kostya Tszyu
    What if Paul Williams
    What if Margarito
    What if Sergio Martinez
    What if GGG

    I mean is Floyd still a favorite to beat those guys? Probably. Does he still beat those guys? Most likely....but as a fan it's not getting to see those big fights ever happen that sucks.


    Floyd made a bunch of money, he is the A#1 boxer known worldwide, he can do exhibition bouts vs anyone and make millions, but to me as a fan his career is a disappointment because he was too much about self preservation and not enough about having a challenge and testing himself.

    Is it better to have a loss or two or have all the what ifs? I mean with the lower weight class fighters speculation does run rampant about catchweights (that's another bullshit thing) which fighter moves up or down what are the advantages. Strategywise, setting up matchups Floyd is a genius and hell he still had to make the business happen in the ring....I'm in awe of that......still I'm thinking he could have been undeniably the greatest by making different matchups at different points in his career and the careers of other fighters but oh well.
    So in a career of about 20 years and 5 divisions you need to speculate about a 6th division to come up with 7 names he didn’t fight that you would have liked him to fight. And you see this as an argument against him, that should be an argument for him.

    You use when and where he fought Oscar, Shane, Hatton, and Cotto against him when it is well documented that they rejected offers from him, at the times you would have liked, at 140 for Ricky and Miguel, a decade earlier for Shane and Oscar. Keep in mind none of these 4 made him a counter offer. In fact they all flat said no. Or “we aren’t looking to fight him right now” is the best, softest version of no.

    I think people just don’t see how wildly unjust they are to Floyd. Dude was and is a dirtbag so he deserves it. But it’s not like Pacquiao has 1 or 2 losses, he has 7, and 2 draws. And Floyd made him look f’n easy H2H. This really should not be a debate. It’s like who is tougher Superman or Aquaman. Aquaman had a great career but f, Superman is Superman. Obviously not saying Floyd is Superman but there is a reason he could make hundreds of millions of dollars with a style most don’t appreciate, because he was that damn good.

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    Default Re: Floyd or Pacquiao, who ranks higher?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Swanson View Post
    So in a career of about 20 years and 5 divisions you need to speculate about a 6th division to come up with 7 names he didn’t fight that you would have liked him to fight. And you see this as an argument against him, that should be an argument for him.

    You use when and where he fought Oscar, Shane, Hatton, and Cotto against him when it is well documented that they rejected offers from him, at the times you would have liked, at 140 for Ricky and Miguel, a decade earlier for Shane and Oscar. Keep in mind none of these 4 made him a counter offer. In fact they all flat said no. Or “we aren’t looking to fight him right now” is the best, softest version of no.

    I think people just don’t see how wildly unjust they are to Floyd. Dude was and is a dirtbag so he deserves it. But it’s not like Pacquiao has 1 or 2 losses, he has 7, and 2 draws. And Floyd made him look f’n easy H2H. This really should not be a debate. It’s like who is tougher Superman or Aquaman. Aquaman had a great career but f, Superman is Superman. Obviously not saying Floyd is Superman but there is a reason he could make hundreds of millions of dollars with a style most don’t appreciate, because he was that damn good.
    I came up with fights off the top of my head that I would have liked to see as a boxing fan. MY BAD Ron, MY FAULT, I'm sorry I didn't know that was something I shouldn't do. I said Floyd is rated higher in my own personal opinion as well. He's well over Pacquiao.....doesn't mean I wouldn't have liked to see Floyd fight an undefeated Miguel Cotto as I think Cotto gave him a great fight as it was. I think Hatton at 140 is a totally different animal than Hatton at 147, but I think Floyd wins, it's just vs what Hatton...147, the shitty Hatton. He put up a good fight, gave a good account of himself, but do you not agree that Hatton at 140 was better than Hatton at 147? Use your eyes...tell me Hatton looked better at 147.

    Those are BOXING as a sport issues and I as a fan of boxing can and will point that out. Sorry you seem to have a personal issue with my take as a fan on issues like that.

    How am I unjust to Floyd? Did he or did he not specially pick out his opponents? JMM at 147 a guy who previously never fought above 135...oh it was SUPPOSED to be at 144, but then mysteriously this changed and JMM weighed in at 142 and Floyd at 146 and on fight night? JMM weighed in on HBO's unofficial scale at 148 and Floyd? Oh he declined to be weighed ....but hey he's the GOAT right? He's not trying to screw someone over to keep his 0 right?

    You act like Floyd is the only boxer ever in the history of all time to be speculated about. Get a grip. He's a great fighter, but yes he picked and chose who, when, and if he was going to fight and what the stipulations would be for the fight....and as I said he still had to do (and he did) the business in the ring and all props to him for that otherwise everyone would be undefeated.


    But yeah, cry about any boxing fan being "too harsh on Floyd" to someone else
    "Drown in a vat of whiskey.....death where is thy sting?" - W.C. Fields.

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    Default Re: Floyd or Pacquiao, who ranks higher?

    Quote Originally Posted by El Kabong View Post
    Floyd is a great boxer, but holy shit he tippy toed his way to keeping that 0. Hell of a boxer, but you just wonder...WHAT IF.


    What if Casamayor or Freitas at 130
    What if a younger De la Hoya and Mosley
    What if Hatton at 140
    What if Cotto pre-Margarito with a trainer he still had full confidence in
    What if a younger Zab Judah
    What if Kostya Tszyu
    What if Paul Williams
    What if Margarito
    What if Sergio Martinez
    What if GGG

    I mean is Floyd still a favorite to beat those guys? Probably. Does he still beat those guys? Most likely....but as a fan it's not getting to see those big fights ever happen that sucks.


    Floyd made a bunch of money, he is the A#1 boxer known worldwide, he can do exhibition bouts vs anyone and make millions, but to me as a fan his career is a disappointment because he was too much about self preservation and not enough about having a challenge and testing himself.

    Is it better to have a loss or two or have all the what ifs? I mean with the lower weight class fighters speculation does run rampant about catchweights (that's another bullshit thing) which fighter moves up or down what are the advantages. Strategywise, setting up matchups Floyd is a genius and hell he still had to make the business happen in the ring....I'm in awe of that......still I'm thinking he could have been undeniably the greatest by making different matchups at different points in his career and the careers of other fighters but oh well.
    Don't forget Winky KaBong.
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    Default Re: Floyd or Pacquiao, who ranks higher?

    These discussions are always funny because we are basically saying Manny or Floyd are the best of their generation and bonafide ATGs- yet both sides will become hysterical and accuse the other side of "hating" if they make a logical argument for either fighter. Both fighters have legitimate cases for historical impact, it just depends on what you value and whose style you favor. I personally enjoy these debates/discussions, and i don't feel any answer is "wrong".

    To get the easy part (in my mind) out of the way- if we are discussing who was better (more skilled, versatile, able to beat a wide/broad array of opponents), I feel that Floyd wins this hands down. Watch Floyd fight Diego Corralles and then watch his fight vs. Ricky Hatton, and tell me one set of skills that Floyd didn't display in those fights (great jabs to head and body, fighting off the ropes, combos, body punching, boxing, slipping, countering...etc.). Floyd was athletically gifted and as impressive as his natural gifts were, his learned technique and boxing IQ was even more impressive (not to mention his work ethic and tough mentality).

    If we are talking historical ranking, that becomes more difficult and reverts to a more subjective discussion- but essentially boils down to who accomplished the most impressive feats and how long will it be before someone breaks those records/feats. I personally add BHOP to this discussion, and I know that is controversial, but he has a couple of amazing feats that I feel are historically significant. I view each guy's claim to highest ATG status as follows:

    Manny: Fought tougher competition than either Hop or Floyd, but suffered more losses and suffered an ugly stoppage vs JMM. Manny won titles in 8 weight classes (amazing feat that won't soon be broken), won 11 world titles, and won five lineal championships. Fighters he beat: Barrera (HOF), Morales (HOF), JMM (HOF), Hatton, Cotto, Oscar (HOF), Ledwaba, Larios, Thurman, Bradley, Margarito, and Mosely. He fought Floyd head to head, and lost a one sided and boring fight, and was knocked out by JMM in their fourth fight.

    Floyd: As skilled as BHOP (if not more so), but more talented/gifted than Hop in my opinion. In all fairness to Floyd, he fought some great competition beating undefeated Diego Corralles and Ricky Hatton when they were P4P ranked and at the height of their prowess. He also beat Mosely when Shane was ranked P4P (coming off Margarito), showing heart in over coming some scary moments early when Shane landed some big right hands. The more Canelo fights, the better Floyd's win looks, as Canelo is a very good, if not GREAT fighter. Finally, Floyd beat Manny head to head (dominating him), and while Manny wasn't his best, Floyd wasn't either and deserves credit for beating his top perceived rival/competitor. Other impressive wins were Genaro Hernandez, Jose Luis Castillo (great lightweight), P4P ranked JMM, Corley, Gatti, Zab Judah, and a tough Carlos Baldomir. That is a great list of fighters- but I favor Manny's resume slightly. Historical feats for Floyd are impressive- undefeated, lineal champ in 3 weight classes, world titles in 5 weight classes. I feel Manny's feats are more impressive and will last longer.

    BHOP: Not as talented/gifted naturally as Manny or Floyd, but a great fighter who overcame his limitations with discipline, intelligence, work ethic, and toughness/will. Bernard has some great wins on his resume' in Tito Trinidad (P4P 2, undefeated, HOF), Winky (P4P #3 at the time), Tarver (P4P #3 at the time), and Kelly Pavilik (Undefeated, P4P ranked at the time). Additional solid wins worth noting are Oscar, Joe Lipsey Jr., Old Roy Jones Jr., Pascal, Shumenov, Murat, Andrew Council, Keith Holmes, William Joppy, Antwon Echols, Simon Brown, Robert Allen, and Howard Eastman. Where Hop challenges both is in accomplishments and historical feats- completely cleaning out middleweight, being the first to unify all four major belts (WBO, WBA, WBC, IBF), making a record (20) defenses, winning multiple lineal titles at light heavyweight, and being the oldest fighter to win, unify, and defend major titles (blowing out Foreman's record of 46 by 3 years). Lost a disputed decision to Jermain Taylor twice, and a disputed decision to Joe Calzaghe. Lost a tough fight to Roy Jones jr. early (while Hop was a little green still), and then when he was older he dropped decisions to Chad Dawson, Kovalev, and Joe Smith jr.

    So in summary, I favor Floyd in terms of who was the "best", but feel that he comes in third to the other two in terms of historical significance and historical feats. Between Manny and Hop, it is a very tight race, but I have to slightly favor Manny's accomplishments as I don't know that they will ever be matched. All of that being said, I can see and respect the argument for Floyd being ranked higher than the others.

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    Default Re: Floyd or Pacquiao, who ranks higher?

    Floyd is the best boxer of his generation. You SAW skills. You saw how he adjusted and what that means. Floyd was better, skillwise, than Roy Jones. Just that Roy was a better athlete with superior hand speed and quickness.
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    Default Re: Floyd or Pacquiao, who ranks higher?

    Quote Originally Posted by ykdadamaja View Post
    Floyd is the best boxer of his generation. You SAW skills. You saw how he adjusted and what that means. Floyd was better, skillwise, than Roy Jones. Just that Roy was a better athlete with superior hand speed and quickness.
    Floyd hands down (I say grudgingly), as Pac was ~sparked out~ like a log, stone cold by Marquez. Floyd never even more than wobbled by a Sugar Shane Shot, and once again by Zab.

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    Default Re: Floyd or Pacquiao, who ranks higher?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fatboxingfan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ykdadamaja View Post
    Floyd is the best boxer of his generation. You SAW skills. You saw how he adjusted and what that means. Floyd was better, skillwise, than Roy Jones. Just that Roy was a better athlete with superior hand speed and quickness.
    Floyd hands down (I say grudgingly), as Pac was ~sparked out~ like a log, stone cold by Marquez. Floyd never even more than wobbled by a Sugar Shane Shot, and once again by Zab.
    DeMarcus Corley as well.
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    Default Re: Floyd or Pacquiao, who ranks higher?

    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fatboxingfan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ykdadamaja View Post
    Floyd is the best boxer of his generation. You SAW skills. You saw how he adjusted and what that means. Floyd was better, skillwise, than Roy Jones. Just that Roy was a better athlete with superior hand speed and quickness.
    Floyd hands down (I say grudgingly), as Pac was ~sparked out~ like a log, stone cold by Marquez. Floyd never even more than wobbled by a Sugar Shane Shot, and once again by Zab.
    DeMarcus Corley as well.
    and maidana...
    They want your @$$ beat because upsets make news. News brings about excitement, excitement brings about ratings. The objective is to bring you up to the tower and tear your @$$ down. And if you don't believe that, you're crazy.

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    Default Re: Floyd or Pacquiao, who ranks higher?

    Quote Originally Posted by El Kabong View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Swanson View Post
    So in a career of about 20 years and 5 divisions you need to speculate about a 6th division to come up with 7 names he didn’t fight that you would have liked him to fight. And you see this as an argument against him, that should be an argument for him.

    You use when and where he fought Oscar, Shane, Hatton, and Cotto against him when it is well documented that they rejected offers from him, at the times you would have liked, at 140 for Ricky and Miguel, a decade earlier for Shane and Oscar. Keep in mind none of these 4 made him a counter offer. In fact they all flat said no. Or “we aren’t looking to fight him right now” is the best, softest version of no.

    I think people just don’t see how wildly unjust they are to Floyd. Dude was and is a dirtbag so he deserves it. But it’s not like Pacquiao has 1 or 2 losses, he has 7, and 2 draws. And Floyd made him look f’n easy H2H. This really should not be a debate. It’s like who is tougher Superman or Aquaman. Aquaman had a great career but f, Superman is Superman. Obviously not saying Floyd is Superman but there is a reason he could make hundreds of millions of dollars with a style most don’t appreciate, because he was that damn good.
    I came up with fights off the top of my head that I would have liked to see as a boxing fan. MY BAD Ron, MY FAULT, I'm sorry I didn't know that was something I shouldn't do. I said Floyd is rated higher in my own personal opinion as well. He's well over Pacquiao.....doesn't mean I wouldn't have liked to see Floyd fight an undefeated Miguel Cotto as I think Cotto gave him a great fight as it was. I think Hatton at 140 is a totally different animal than Hatton at 147, but I think Floyd wins, it's just vs what Hatton...147, the shitty Hatton. He put up a good fight, gave a good account of himself, but do you not agree that Hatton at 140 was better than Hatton at 147? Use your eyes...tell me Hatton looked better at 147.

    Those are BOXING as a sport issues and I as a fan of boxing can and will point that out. Sorry you seem to have a personal issue with my take as a fan on issues like that.

    How am I unjust to Floyd? Did he or did he not specially pick out his opponents? JMM at 147 a guy who previously never fought above 135...oh it was SUPPOSED to be at 144, but then mysteriously this changed and JMM weighed in at 142 and Floyd at 146 and on fight night? JMM weighed in on HBO's unofficial scale at 148 and Floyd? Oh he declined to be weighed ....but hey he's the GOAT right? He's not trying to screw someone over to keep his 0 right?

    You act like Floyd is the only boxer ever in the history of all time to be speculated about. Get a grip. He's a great fighter, but yes he picked and chose who, when, and if he was going to fight and what the stipulations would be for the fight....and as I said he still had to do (and he did) the business in the ring and all props to him for that otherwise everyone would be undefeated.


    But yeah, cry about any boxing fan being "too harsh on Floyd" to someone else

    Also lets not pretend we don't know that lowballing someone with an offer way below market value is typically seen in the business as a way to tell whether or not a guy is serious about fighting you.
    They want your @$$ beat because upsets make news. News brings about excitement, excitement brings about ratings. The objective is to bring you up to the tower and tear your @$$ down. And if you don't believe that, you're crazy.

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