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Thread: Turning back the clock

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    Default Turning back the clock

    I was watching a video about fighters turning back the clock and it came to my attention that there always seemed to be the variable of different opponents. I think the opponents had more to do with “turning back the clock” than the fighter suddenly and magically getting younger.

    I’ve spent about 10 minutes trying to think of a time a guy looked old, lost, and came back a few years later to beat the same younger guy that made them look old. Anyone have any examples?


    The closest I can think is Ali vs Spinks I+II but Ali didn’t look any younger in the 2nd, he just fought a different way.

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    Default Re: Turning back the clock

    That is tough but I do remember a US fighter and prospect beating another and then getting a loss at the higher level and then a few years later fighting the same fighter and getting stopped by him. He was finished at the top level.

    The only one I can think of it Malinga who lost to Nigel Benn and then beating him years later. Benn was really finished by then.
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    Default Re: Turning back the clock

    That's a tough one. I thought about Cotto-Margarito... but it wasn't really Cotto looking old and lost in the first one. He did seem to run out of gas in the later rounds after dominating the first part of the fight completely... and then Margarito teed off with his (now questionably illegal) gloves. Three years later, Miguel comes back and thoroughly outboxes Margarito on his way to a stoppage victory.

    I thought about Lennox also... but his avenging of the Rahman loss same immediately after. It was more a case of Lennox being lazy and careless in his loss..... and then being laser-focused and sharp for the rematch.

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    Default Re: Turning back the clock

    Yes I agree it doesn't really happen. One of the better examples is maybe Shane Mosley? Looked to be firmly on the slide as early as the Dlh rematch, then was able to do better in his rematches against Forrest and Winky, granted both still defeats, then of course the Margarito fight, although as you say that's mostly down to it being a great opponent for him. Plus if we're being honest he may have just gotten his cycles right when he looked better.

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    Default Re: Turning back the clock

    Can’t think of any off the top of my head. The problem is that it would just be rare that something like this would happen. An old fighter losing to a great younger fighter and then getting another shot at him a few years later. Most people would just have no interest in the rematch.

    I’m sure at some point this has happened. I can’t imagine it didn’t happen in more the olden times of boxing when people fought more often.

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    Default Re: Turning back the clock

    Quote Originally Posted by p4pking View Post
    Yes I agree it doesn't really happen. One of the better examples is maybe Shane Mosley? Looked to be firmly on the slide as early as the Dlh rematch, then was able to do better in his rematches against Forrest and Winky, granted both still defeats, then of course the Margarito fight, although as you say that's mostly down to it being a great opponent for him. Plus if we're being honest he may have just gotten his cycles right when he looked better.

    Shane's actually not a bad example. Didn't really avenge anybody... but off his UD loss to Cotto... he came back and obliterated Margarito. Yeah maybe it was the perfect opponent for him, but few expected that steamrollering he dished out. To this day one of my favorite fights of all time. After Cotto, some were ready to write him off... then comes that fight in 2009 and all doubters were at least temporarily silenced. Who knows what the reason was. After that he was basically done.

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    Default Re: Turning back the clock

    James Toney did get a draw against McCallum and beat him twice after. Toney said he improved as a fighter after that first matchup.

    McCallum beat Sambu Kalambay and avenged his first pro loss.

    Evander put some weight and bulk on and fought smart against Bowe the second time to turn back the clock.
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    Default Re: Turning back the clock

    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by p4pking View Post
    Yes I agree it doesn't really happen. One of the better examples is maybe Shane Mosley? Looked to be firmly on the slide as early as the Dlh rematch, then was able to do better in his rematches against Forrest and Winky, granted both still defeats, then of course the Margarito fight, although as you say that's mostly down to it being a great opponent for him. Plus if we're being honest he may have just gotten his cycles right when he looked better.

    Shane's actually not a bad example. Didn't really avenge anybody... but off his UD loss to Cotto... he came back and obliterated Margarito. Yeah maybe it was the perfect opponent for him, but few expected that steamrollering he dished out. To this day one of my favorite fights of all time. After Cotto, some were ready to write him off... then comes that fight in 2009 and all doubters were at least temporarily silenced. Who knows what the reason was. After that he was basically done.
    Shane/Margie is close, but like said in the OP, different opponent. If Shane had fought Cotto again and destroyed him that would fit the scenario. Same opponent so the change is surely with Shane.

    As someone mentioned it would be a rare scenario because it would feel like a step back in the younger fighters advancing career.

    Just found it interesting I couldn’t think of one. I’m sure it has happened, it has to have, and like someone else mentioned it may be something more from the past when they fought more. Since it is a beating the odds thing and opportunities come into play.

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    Default Re: Turning back the clock

    not a fighter that gained revenge, but hasegawa turned back the clock to upset hugo ruiz, after looking done as far back as the montiel and gonzalez, and even martinez fights. the ruiz win came over 2 years after he lost to martinez
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    Default Re: Turning back the clock

    Good topic. Some are tricky with younger guy just not panning out or the vet prematurely written off etc. John Michael Johnson losing to a young 2-0 Junior Jones then coming back 5 years later to take his title via ko and reignite his career. Dennis Andries coming back from a ko to 11 years younger underdog Jeff Harding and leaving him down for the count in rematch. Luisito Espinosa returning the ko to new champ and Kevin Kelly conqueror Alejandro Gonzalez for his belt.

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    Default Re: Turning back the clock

    Quote Originally Posted by Spicoli View Post
    Good topic. Some are tricky with younger guy just not panning out or the vet prematurely written off etc. John Michael Johnson losing to a young 2-0 Junior Jones then coming back 5 years later to take his title via ko and reignite his career. Dennis Andries coming back from a ko to 11 years younger underdog Jeff Harding and leaving him down for the count in rematch. Luisito Espinosa returning the ko to new champ and Kevin Kelly conqueror Alejandro Gonzalez for his belt.
    What’s crazy is John Michael Johnson fought LAST MONTH, 25 years after that victory!

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    Default Re: Turning back the clock

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Swanson View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spicoli View Post
    Good topic. Some are tricky with younger guy just not panning out or the vet prematurely written off etc. John Michael Johnson losing to a young 2-0 Junior Jones then coming back 5 years later to take his title via ko and reignite his career. Dennis Andries coming back from a ko to 11 years younger underdog Jeff Harding and leaving him down for the count in rematch. Luisito Espinosa returning the ko to new champ and Kevin Kelly conqueror Alejandro Gonzalez for his belt.
    What’s crazy is John Michael Johnson fought LAST MONTH, 25 years after that victory!
    Yeh that was sad, some just cannot leave it alone and of course you still have to pay the bills. Hopefully he sticks with training.

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    Default Re: Turning back the clock

    I rember Gamaliel Diaz defeating Takahiro Ao in '12, then losing to him in 2018, is that the sort of thing you are loooking for?

    What about Coutney Burton beating Emanuel Augustus in '04 by split decision (controversial), then getting knocked out by Augustus in 8 rounds in'06.

    Derrick Gainer, getting stopped in 8 by Kevin Kelley, then defeating Kelley over 10 rounds in '98.
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    Default Re: Turning back the clock

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    I rember Gamaliel Diaz defeating Takahiro Ao in '12, then losing to him in 2018, is that the sort of thing you are loooking for?

    What about Coutney Burton beating Emanuel Augustus in '04 by split decision (controversial), then getting knocked out by Augustus in 8 rounds in'06.

    Derrick Gainer, getting stopped in 8 by Kevin Kelley, then defeating Kelley over 10 rounds in '98.
    Diaz/Ao would almost fit, except Diaz was so so done by then.

    Augustus fought on for 5 more years after the Burton fight so he wasn’t really at the end. And Gainer fought on for like 11 more years so again, not really at the end.

    Not trying to argue, just thinking of the old guy rising up for one night, one last night of greatness. I think it’s often the opponent that makes it seem like they are better on the night but I’m sure there must be occasions where the old guy is just better that night.

    For example people say Wladimir fought great against Joshua, well I say put him back in with Fury and he would have stunk the joint out. Not Wladimir putting on one last great show, just a better matchup.

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    Default Re: Turning back the clock

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Swanson View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    I rember Gamaliel Diaz defeating Takahiro Ao in '12, then losing to him in 2018, is that the sort of thing you are loooking for?

    What about Coutney Burton beating Emanuel Augustus in '04 by split decision (controversial), then getting knocked out by Augustus in 8 rounds in'06.

    Derrick Gainer, getting stopped in 8 by Kevin Kelley, then defeating Kelley over 10 rounds in '98.
    Diaz/Ao would almost fit, except Diaz was so so done by then.

    Augustus fought on for 5 more years after the Burton fight so he wasn’t really at the end. And Gainer fought on for like 11 more years so again, not really at the end.

    Not trying to argue, just thinking of the old guy rising up for one night, one last night of greatness. I think it’s often the opponent that makes it seem like they are better on the night but I’m sure there must be occasions where the old guy is just better that night.

    For example people say Wladimir fought great against Joshua, well I say put him back in with Fury and he would have stunk the joint out. Not Wladimir putting on one last great show, just a better matchup.
    Oh ok, it is a tough one, especially if it's against the same opponent. Old guys against young guys is a different story.

    I was going to say Hopkins against Jones Jr, but they both fought on for awhile. Hopkins against Pascal after the draw was similar.

    Guys like Verno Phillips, Ali and Foreman had some great late runs.
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