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Thread: Matchroom fight camp - 4 weeks of fights

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  1. #46
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    Default Re: Matchroom fight camp - 4 weeks of fights

    AJ has had the red carpet treatment to become the heavyweight champion. Lennox had to face the hardest tests to get to the titles. He will have the better CV when AJ retires.
    Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.

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    Default Re: Matchroom fight camp - 4 weeks of fights

    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    AJ has had the red carpet treatment to become the heavyweight champion. Lennox had to face the hardest tests to get to the titles. He will have the better CV when AJ retires.
    Who cares about any of that? You've read what I wrote? And decided that I'm saying Joshua is better than Lewis or has a better record. Not the case.

    I'll run with it for the sake of argument. Compare what we can compare. 24 fights. Who has the better record after 24 fights?

    Lewis had a second career if you like post McCall. Joshua almost certainly wont have that. In that respect Lewis will separate himself in terms of CV. But even now. The 24 fights Joshua has had, is enough for me to say he more than competes with anything Lewis fought, and beats the overwhelming majority of those that Lewis did.
    When God said to the both of us "Which one of you wants to be Sugar Ray?" I guess I didnt raise my hand fast enough

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    Default Re: Matchroom fight camp - 4 weeks of fights

    Quote Originally Posted by Memphis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TonnnnUK View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Memphis View Post
    I cant help but like Dillian. Mad bastard, loves a ruck. Some of his decision making has been odd. Should have taken the Joshua fight for whatever was on offer, that's his call obviously and you have to respect his decision. But a crack at several belts against a bloke he's desperate to rematch, who he thinks he's got the beating of now that his shoulder is fixed, for a fuck load of money, rip their arm of man. The Tibbs thing as well. Dillian painted a picture of an amicable parting of professional ways but everyone immediately saw through that. I've no idea who's training him now?

    He's put together some good wins over the last few years but they've all been at a cost. Life and death with Del Boy twice, boxed quite nicely against Rivas but it was by no means a canter and however iffy it was (more of a knock over than a knock down if you know what I mean) he still managed to find himself on the deck. Life and death with Parker, on the deck again and clinging on for dear life at the end. Looked like turd against Wach. He's doing the distance when he needs to but his conditioning doesn't 'look' great.

    I hope he's in good shape and up for this and I hope he wins. I'm not suggesting that anything is conspiring against him here, but that good run of form on paper, doesn't tell the whole story of the ringer he's been through to get there. And lets be honest, a few peoples lives would be made a whole lot easier if he came a cropper and fell off the radar for a bit.
    Definitely gotta feel a bit sorry for him always being cast aside, and frankly I'm quite surprised he's still sticking with Matchroom given his biggest rival is Eddie's golden boy and main priority.

    He has earned his shot and got some good wins, but he's hardly been dominant as noted. I see him as a crude slugger, who can take a shot and get digging, which makes him live and dangerous. But I don't think he would beat Joshua, who himself is much better than he was in their first encounter. Has a shot against Wilder, but could easily be knocked out cold also while Fury would box rings around him.

    Whyte might just about be the number 4 guy in the division, which probably reflects how poor it is as a whole.
    I never really go in for the 'division is poor' stuff. Generally speaking, not just this crop. It's the party line, rolled out for every era and the answer is almost certainly the same every time, it kinda has to be. Would a 20 odd fight (insert anyone you like here) who's half way through their career, have beaten their counterpart from yesteryear who's completed a generally illustrious career at the top level. Of course they're not.

    The deck is stacked against them to say the least and people paint a very rose tinted version of the past.

    Take Joshua and stick him up against Lewis. I got no problem with anyone saying Lewis is better than Joshua, I'd probably go along with that. Again though, Lewis has completed an illustrious career, Joshua is half, three quarters through his? People will have you believe that Lewis existed on a vastly higher plain to Joshua, and so did the people he fought. It's just not the case though is is?

    I don't spend a great deal of timing looking or thinking about this stuff because it's fantasy. But when I do, I tend not to look at A versus B. I go for A versus everyone B fought. That's what we're trying to establish here. Would A, the representative of this crop, have competed against the crop from yesteryear. For me the answer is an easy yes. Save for two or three names, would anyone have any issue with saying that Joshua dispatches them all in the same manner Lewis did?

    Holyfield, Klitschko. I got no problem with anyone thinking Joshua loses those fights. Everyone else though? I ain't having it. Mercer? Mercer fought an inspired fight against Lewis and gave him hell. sandwiching that fight are also some pretty average fights against some average competition. Bruno? Ain't no way Joshua ain't knocking Bruno into next week for me.

    Take Joshua as is and transplant him into the 90's early 00's. He'd be one of the names people fall all over as proof that the current crop couldn't compete.

    would Joshua, Wilder, Fury or Whyte have beaten the best of the 90's and early 00's? Maybe, maybe not. But they would have been in there with a shout, no doubt about it as far as I'm concerned.
    I get what you're saying and I don't think the division is poor in terms of quality compared to those that came before them.

    I mean in terms of quality in comparisons to other divisions. I know that other divisions are also overall lacking in quality, and these things can go in cycles (welterweight 10 years ago was incredibly stacked for instance). But I think it's amplified even more so with the heavies as the stellar division that gets the most interest in casual fan circles.

    Currently it's really only the "big 3", and we know that Fury is even levels above Wilder now. Then you have the likes of Whyte, Povetkin, Ruiz and Ortiz on the next rung down.
    Then a massive drop in quality with a couple of decent prospects in between? I think the heavyweight division always tend to be poor in comparison to other weight divisions and I think it's been increasingly getting shallower probably since the later 90s. Or it oculd have been the case that there's only ever been a few standout performers in any given heavyweight era, followed by a few moderately decent campaigners and the rest were garbage??

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    Default Re: Matchroom fight camp - 4 weeks of fights

    Whytes just added Dave Coldwell to his corner at the last minute.
    Nerves kicking in I reckon

    https://www.skysports.com/boxing/new...vyweight-clash

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    Default Re: Matchroom fight camp - 4 weeks of fights

    Quote Originally Posted by Memphis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    AJ has had the red carpet treatment to become the heavyweight champion. Lennox had to face the hardest tests to get to the titles. He will have the better CV when AJ retires.
    Who cares about any of that? You've read what I wrote? And decided that I'm saying Joshua is better than Lewis or has a better record. Not the case.

    I'll run with it for the sake of argument. Compare what we can compare. 24 fights. Who has the better record after 24 fights?

    Lewis had a second career if you like post McCall. Joshua almost certainly wont have that. In that respect Lewis will separate himself in terms of CV. But even now. The 24 fights Joshua has had, is enough for me to say he more than competes with anything Lewis fought, and beats the overwhelming majority of those that Lewis did.
    I am saying that AJ has avoided huge punchers like Wilder and probably would have avoided Razzor and Bruno who were no better because he may have gotten beaten. I can not see AJ beat Mercer under the conditions Lennox faced which was a small ring and hostile New York crowd.
    Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.

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    Default Re: Matchroom fight camp - 4 weeks of fights

    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Memphis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    AJ has had the red carpet treatment to become the heavyweight champion. Lennox had to face the hardest tests to get to the titles. He will have the better CV when AJ retires.
    Who cares about any of that? You've read what I wrote? And decided that I'm saying Joshua is better than Lewis or has a better record. Not the case.

    I'll run with it for the sake of argument. Compare what we can compare. 24 fights. Who has the better record after 24 fights?

    Lewis had a second career if you like post McCall. Joshua almost certainly wont have that. In that respect Lewis will separate himself in terms of CV. But even now. The 24 fights Joshua has had, is enough for me to say he more than competes with anything Lewis fought, and beats the overwhelming majority of those that Lewis did.
    I am saying that AJ has avoided huge punchers like Wilder and probably would have avoided Razzor and Bruno who were no better because he may have gotten beaten. I can not see AJ beat Mercer under the conditions Lennox faced which was a small ring and hostile New York crowd.
    Given his record and the fights he’s taken. It’s bordering on insane for anyone to suggest he’s ducked anyone. Would have avoided Bruno
    When God said to the both of us "Which one of you wants to be Sugar Ray?" I guess I didnt raise my hand fast enough

    Charley Burley

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    Default Re: Matchroom fight camp - 4 weeks of fights

    Quote Originally Posted by Memphis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Memphis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    AJ has had the red carpet treatment to become the heavyweight champion. Lennox had to face the hardest tests to get to the titles. He will have the better CV when AJ retires.
    Who cares about any of that? You've read what I wrote? And decided that I'm saying Joshua is better than Lewis or has a better record. Not the case.

    I'll run with it for the sake of argument. Compare what we can compare. 24 fights. Who has the better record after 24 fights?

    Lewis had a second career if you like post McCall. Joshua almost certainly wont have that. In that respect Lewis will separate himself in terms of CV. But even now. The 24 fights Joshua has had, is enough for me to say he more than competes with anything Lewis fought, and beats the overwhelming majority of those that Lewis did.
    I am saying that AJ has avoided huge punchers like Wilder and probably would have avoided Razzor and Bruno who were no better because he may have gotten beaten. I can not see AJ beat Mercer under the conditions Lennox faced which was a small ring and hostile New York crowd.
    Given his record and the fights he’s taken. It’s bordering on insane for anyone to suggest he’s ducked anyone. Would have avoided Bruno
    Lennox fought the best version of Bruno, Frank had beaten seasoned top contenders to get to Lennox, he also gave Lewis hell early in the fight. AJ has been hurt by Whyte, Wlad and Ruiz so could see him be worried with big punchers.
    Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.

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    Default Re: Matchroom fight camp - 4 weeks of fights

    Master please say this is a wind up. If it is you've done me good and proper. If it's not you're fucking nuts. You're doing what all revisionists do. Oh he fought tough top contenders. Bullshit, they were rank average fighters in decline who were losing against anything half decent. Anyway, this is slightly detracting from the thread topic so I'll leave it there. Maybe start a new thread
    When God said to the both of us "Which one of you wants to be Sugar Ray?" I guess I didnt raise my hand fast enough

    Charley Burley

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    Default Re: Matchroom fight camp - 4 weeks of fights

    Quote Originally Posted by smashup View Post
    Whytes just added Dave Coldwell to his corner at the last minute.
    Nerves kicking in I reckon

    https://www.skysports.com/boxing/new...vyweight-clash
    Part of me hopes it was the plan all along and Coldwell was always coming in late to 'advise'. I'm not so sure and tend to agree that it's a bit of a late panic move. On who's part I'm not sure. You wouldn't peg Dillian as the type to panic, lose his bottle and ask for a bit of backup. His trainer has been in and around the camp for a while but never at the helm so maybe it's for his benefit.

    Difficult to tell from clothed pictures but Dillian looks in good shape, looks lean. I hope all these bits and pieces aren't a distraction. Or rolled out as an excuse if he comes a cropper.
    When God said to the both of us "Which one of you wants to be Sugar Ray?" I guess I didnt raise my hand fast enough

    Charley Burley

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    Default Re: Matchroom fight camp - 4 weeks of fights

    What could bringing Coldwell in at this late stage possibly achieve??

    I mean if somehow Coldwell has some magical insight about Povetkin that the team didn't pick up on, and thus train for, it's not like they can suddenly go back and start working on that thing.

    Just don't see what the benefits are other than just an extra seasoned voice to hear and have some input?

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    Default Re: Matchroom fight camp - 4 weeks of fights

    Anyone by chance know the start time for this Stateside? We've had back to back Saturdays stacked with 3-4 live cards, things seem to definitely be looking up Covid be damned.

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    Default Re: Matchroom fight camp - 4 weeks of fights

    Show starts at 7pm UK time fella

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    Default Re: Matchroom fight camp - 4 weeks of fights

    Quote Originally Posted by Spicoli View Post
    Anyone by chance know the start time for this Stateside? We've had back to back Saturdays stacked with 3-4 live cards, things seem to definitely be looking up Covid be damned.
    5 televised events this weekend.

    Tomorrow in Spain Sergio Garcia makes a comeback, on the undercard of Sergio Garcia. It's on Fite TV, maybe Spain only I'm not sure.

    Then Saturday is the 2 UK cards: the big sky matchroom PPV and channel 5 Hennessy show.
    2 cards in the states: Porter headlining and Eleider Alvarez vs Joe Smith Jr at the Bubble in The MGM.

    Nice!

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    Default Re: Matchroom fight camp - 4 weeks of fights

    Katie Taylor by majority decision 12-1
    Persoon by KO 33-1
    Draw 12-1

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    Default Re: Matchroom fight camp - 4 weeks of fights

    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Memphis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    AJ has had the red carpet treatment to become the heavyweight champion. Lennox had to face the hardest tests to get to the titles. He will have the better CV when AJ retires.
    Who cares about any of that? You've read what I wrote? And decided that I'm saying Joshua is better than Lewis or has a better record. Not the case.

    I'll run with it for the sake of argument. Compare what we can compare. 24 fights. Who has the better record after 24 fights?

    Lewis had a second career if you like post McCall. Joshua almost certainly wont have that. In that respect Lewis will separate himself in terms of CV. But even now. The 24 fights Joshua has had, is enough for me to say he more than competes with anything Lewis fought, and beats the overwhelming majority of those that Lewis did.
    I am saying that AJ has avoided huge punchers like Wilder and probably would have avoided Razzor and Bruno who were no better because he may have gotten beaten. I can not see AJ beat Mercer under the conditions Lennox faced which was a small ring and hostile New York crowd.








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