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Thread: Oleksandr Usyk v Daniel Dubois

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  1. #136
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    Default Re: Oleksandr Usyk v Daniel Dubois

    One more thin while we're at it...can this sport finally get with the modern age and implement instant replay . Sure may clear some things up.

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    Default Re: Oleksandr Usyk v Daniel Dubois

    Quote Originally Posted by Primo Carnera View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark TKO View Post
    I'm now fully of the view it wasn't a low blow.

    As outclassed as he was Dubois should be world champion today.

    They should have made more of it at the time.
    He didn’t make more of it, because he didn’t feel robbed. When Usyk went over to him after the fight, if he felt he’d been robbed, he would’ve acted very differently.
    It’s only when Frank Warren came in and started talking that he started to feel robbed.
    Basically he quit , he never won a round, no way should he be World Champion.
    I get it though. He wants a rematch, so he can make more dough. If he doesn’t get the rematch (which he won’t ) he is gonna take a massive drop in money and level of opponent.
    As I said I turned off straight after the fight. I get it he wants a rematch we all would for the dough. But for me now he knocked Usyk out and I feel for him as much out of his league as he was
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    Default Re: Oleksandr Usyk v Daniel Dubois

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark TKO View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Primo Carnera View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark TKO View Post
    I'm now fully of the view it wasn't a low blow.

    As outclassed as he was Dubois should be world champion today.

    They should have made more of it at the time.
    He didn’t make more of it, because he didn’t feel robbed. When Usyk went over to him after the fight, if he felt he’d been robbed, he would’ve acted very differently.
    It’s only when Frank Warren came in and started talking that he started to feel robbed.
    Basically he quit , he never won a round, no way should he be World Champion.
    I get it though. He wants a rematch, so he can make more dough. If he doesn’t get the rematch (which he won’t ) he is gonna take a massive drop in money and level of opponent.
    As I said I turned off straight after the fight. I get it he wants a rematch we all would for the dough. But for me now he knocked Usyk out and I feel for him as much out of his league as he was
    Each to their own. I believe if the ref had started counting , Usyk would’ve come through it. We’ll never know I suppose.
    Former Undisputed 4 belt Prediction champion. Still P4P and People’s Champion.

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    Default Re: Oleksandr Usyk v Daniel Dubois

    Former Undisputed 4 belt Prediction champion. Still P4P and People’s Champion.

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    Default Re: Oleksandr Usyk v Daniel Dubois

    Quote Originally Posted by Primo Carnera View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KickMuck View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark TKO View Post

    Unless Fury has seriously declined.
    This could well be the case
    I’m not sure about serious decline because I always thought Fury was given way too much kudos for beating a guy in Wilder that would never have been a contender let alone a champion in any other era.
    But the way I feel about Fury is that mentally he does not have the desire to go into a gruelling camp necessary to take on a serious World Champion level fight.
    So he’ll get himself in “tick over semi decent shape” to have enough to beat a non boxer and earn as much as he possibly can.
    Think of all the evidence.
    1. Negotiating with Joshua (more than once) putting unreasonable time restrictions and financial demands and not going through with the fight.
    2. Negotiating with Usyk , putting unreasonable time time restrictions and financial demands, (WHICH WERE ALL ACCEPTED) and not going through with the fight.
    3. 2 defences in 2 years against Whyte (fair enough at the time) and perennial loser Chisora, whom he had already completely outclassed for 24 rounds previously. In all seriousness, how is a boxer like Chisora getting World title shots? He hardly ever wins a fight at top level ffs.
    4. Opting to fight a circus style MMA guy instead of defending belts against deserving contenders, completely taking the piss out of the sport, ( and the piss weak governing bodies allowing it to happen!)
    5. Doing a Netflix series like anybody is the slightest bit interested in his family life.
    He should be stripped of the title until such time that he fights someone who the governing body feels he should fight.
    It’s fucking disgusting to be honest.


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    Default Re: Oleksandr Usyk v Daniel Dubois

    Quote Originally Posted by Primo Carnera View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KickMuck View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark TKO View Post

    Unless Fury has seriously declined.
    This could well be the case
    I’m not sure about serious decline because I always thought Fury was given way too much kudos for beating a guy in Wilder that would never have been a contender let alone a champion in any other era.
    But the way I feel about Fury is that mentally he does not have the desire to go into a gruelling camp necessary to take on a serious World Champion level fight.
    So he’ll get himself in “tick over semi decent shape” to have enough to beat a non boxer and earn as much as he possibly can.
    Think of all the evidence.
    1. Negotiating with Joshua (more than once) putting unreasonable time restrictions and financial demands and not going through with the fight.
    2. Negotiating with Usyk , putting unreasonable time time restrictions and financial demands, (WHICH WERE ALL ACCEPTED) and not going through with the fight.
    3. 2 defences in 2 years against Whyte (fair enough at the time) and perennial loser Chisora, whom he had already completely outclassed for 24 rounds previously. In all seriousness, how is a boxer like Chisora getting World title shots? He hardly ever wins a fight at top level ffs.
    4. Opting to fight a circus style MMA guy instead of defending belts against deserving contenders, completely taking the piss out of the sport, ( and the piss weak governing bodies allowing it to happen!)
    5. Doing a Netflix series like anybody is the slightest bit interested in his family life.
    He should be stripped of the title until such time that he fights someone who the governing body feels he should fight.
    It’s fucking disgusting to be honest.
    ^^^^
    This.

    Fury is hugely overrated. He is not shit, you do not get the chances he has through luck alone but he is not the atg many, including himself, trumpet him as.

    He is a serial bottler and has been a night mare for boxing. For his juicing and legitamizing people like Jake Paul alone he should be banned, but holding up the fights that need to happen is a bridge too far. F**k him and his BS mental health circus. Hope Usyk embarrasses him out of the sport.
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    Default Re: Oleksandr Usyk v Daniel Dubois

    I think the whole world needs CT scans of Usyk's balls to confirm what really happened on Saturday

    I mean. He did come into the ring like this......



    At the end of the fight I reckon Fury running to the phone like



    To make the fight happen in 2024.

    But Usyk is like the Frankenstein combination of Cunningham and Wallin, Fury's two toughest fights ever - only ten times the fighter those two put together. He is quite literally the worst possible stylistic matchup for Fury.

    At his core, Fury is a partier.

    He feels like he's done the hard work and now it's time to lay back and suck up the gravy. To beat Usyk you have to get yourself in TREMENDOUS cardiovascular shape. That means five and ten mile runs, rowing, hills run, cycling, punching the heavy bag HARD for 20 mins non stop and do old school "catch the chicken" routines, like in Rocky to improve your footwork



    And if even if he Fury does all that ? He can never have the output and keep on the pace of Usyk. As it was shown in Dubois / Joshua / Bellew fights. Usyk slowly goes through the gears, and his opponents don't have the answer and get tired. While Fury has good cardio, he always needs to tie/hold/clinch to save his breath. And he won't be able to do that against Usyk. Fury's his only hope to be as dirty as possible, and he knows it. But with the right ref, this won't be allowed. Fury won't knock him out, so he'll have to be extremely......EXTREMELY fit and he very rarely is.

    Even at the top of his game this is probably a 60/40 in Usyk's favour.

    OK onto THAT punch.

    It's was below the belt

    It's not on the belt. It's not above the belt. This whole glove is below the belt.

    And that by definition is a low blow. You just can't debate it. You can’t hit below the belly button… it doesn’t need to be the balls like some people think. Plus Usyk wears his shorts relatively low compared to other fighters.

    Ref's instructions made it clear that hitting anywhere on the trunks was illegal. They made it clear that punches must land above the trunks. If a fighter's trunks were worn too high the ref must inform the fighters of that, but Usyk's wasn't. Dubois punch was on Usyk shorts, not a single part of it even touch Usyk skin.



    Having said that

    Tom Sharkey had his ribs broken and battered until they pierced his skin, leaving a permanent scar on his ribcage, against James J. Jeffries.



    Despite this, he still kept attacking until the end of the 25 round fight. He also weighed 185 to Jeffries' 210. I do think Usyk took advantage of the situation to the max.

    Daniel Dubois ?

    I can understand why he quit against Joyce, makes sense. His orbital was broken so why risk your eye for no belts? Come again, die another day.

    But here,
    • He wasn’t injured
    • He got knocked down by a jab
    • Three belts on the line
    • Once in a lifetime opportunity
    • Could have made the count
    • Didn't even protest being waved off

    He went down tenderly as if he was preserving himself. Wasn't off balance at all. Just casually takes a step away, bends over and puts his hands to the ground. Something is seriously off there.

    Adversity breeds strength of will. Just like anything it has to be learned and if he hasn't experienced that adversity before then he's never developed that ability to cope with adversity when he suddenly faced with it and instead of just gritting it out until the end......... he chose to quit.

    My thinking is that he isn’t pushed in training and sparring. Getting your ass beat or going through adversity in your development results in having more resolve. And add in that he’s had a strange upbringing. He was home-schooled since 13 by his dad, in the hopes of becoming a professional boxer. Most fighters/people, have a life and something that anchors them. With Dubois, I see a guy who’s not a fully fledged person

    He just is not world level. He is a fairly decent domestic/European level fighter.

    In a very real sense there is no shame in that. He is a real pro boxer.
    Last edited by Denilson3.0; 08-30-2023 at 06:39 PM.

  8. #143
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    Default Re: Oleksandr Usyk v Daniel Dubois

    The ref ruled it low
    Usyk took some of the time he was allocated
    Dubois quit after being hit with a jab
    End off

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    Default Re: Oleksandr Usyk v Daniel Dubois

    I think Usyk is a good fighter and scored a big win. Still, he fought another guy with no heart. my question is can he beat Ruiz Wilder, or Zhang. I don't think so. At least not all of them.

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    Default Re: Oleksandr Usyk v Daniel Dubois

    Quote Originally Posted by mrbig1 View Post
    I think Usyk is a good fighter and scored a big win. Still, he fought another guy with no heart. my question is can he beat Ruiz Wilder, or Zhang. I don't think so. At least not all of them.
    I was impressed with Usyk and he moved up the gears when he thought that Dubois was getting close to some success.

    Usyk would easily beat Ruiz, Wilder and Zhang if he had to face them but he talked about having a hard training camp and being with his family. It is not easy for him to face these super heavyweights just because of their size. His experience, superior speed, skill and accuracy means he beats them.
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    Default Re: Oleksandr Usyk v Daniel Dubois

    I thought Usyk won just about every minute of that fight, he totally bamboozled Dubois and left him bereft of ideas. There was only one winner in there.

    The only talking point of a processional win for Usyk was the one body punch. I thought it was low, but can see that others might not. We probably all agree it was borderline

    It looks like he didn’t actually hit him in the balls, but punching upward on the top of your protector pulls it up and it crushes your bollocks. I know from experience that it hurts as much as being hit there squarely

    either way, the ref called it low. It doesn’t matter whether it was or not, or what we think, or what dodgy replays show …. The ref called it low so Usyk was completely within his rights to keep a cool head, and to take the rest period on offer. He did, and he got up to dominate.

    If the ref hadn’t called it low, and started a count, I believe that Usyk would have got up. His head was clear, albeit his balls would be aching so I really don’t see Dubois suddenly catching him and stopping him. He never got near him once in the fight.

    I also don’t see Usyk being counted out from a body punch.


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    Default Re: Oleksandr Usyk v Daniel Dubois

    Quote Originally Posted by mrbig1 View Post
    I think Usyk is a good fighter and scored a big win. Still, he fought another guy with no heart. my question is can he beat Ruiz Wilder, or Zhang. I don't think so. At least not all of them.
    I think Usyk would fight them all if he could
    His main target is still Fury
    If that fight doesn't happen he'll have to satisfy his mandatories

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    Default Re: Oleksandr Usyk v Daniel Dubois

    Promoter Frank Warren has lost an appeal to the WBA for Daniel Dubois' loss to Oleksandr Usyk to be ruled a no contest and that a rematch be ordered.

    The WBA said there was not enough evidence to change the result.

    The orgainsation added that it sent the case to the International Officials Committee, who found "no clear and conclusive evidence that the original decision made by Puerto Rican official Luis Pabon on Dubois' punch to Usyk was wrong".

    The WBA reviewed documents submitted by Warren's Queensberry Promotions, replays and rules before determining that the appeal would not proceed.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/boxing/67097003
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    Default Re: Oleksandr Usyk v Daniel Dubois

    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Promoter Frank Warren has lost an appeal to the WBA for Daniel Dubois' loss to Oleksandr Usyk to be ruled a no contest and that a rematch be ordered.

    The WBA said there was not enough evidence to change the result.

    The orgainsation added that it sent the case to the International Officials Committee, who found "no clear and conclusive evidence that the original decision made by Puerto Rican official Luis Pabon on Dubois' punch to Usyk was wrong".

    The WBA reviewed documents submitted by Warren's Queensberry Promotions, replays and rules before determining that the appeal would not proceed.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/boxing/67097003
    For once I agree with the WBA, usually I don't, we use to call a fight which go to the score cards, robbery, when the perdant won without a doubt at least 7 rounds; well I think we can apply the same rule here : it was Dubois punch without a doubt legal ? I don't think so, even after watch a lot of replays I can t say , yes it was 100% a legal punch.

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