Thread: Zhilei Zhang says "Wilder is out of Ammo!"

Originally Posted by TIC

deontay's power always seemed overrated to me. there's a reason he targeted tyson on the comeback trail over aj

"... targeted Tyson on the comeback trail over AJ..."

Help me understand here. Aren't comebacks usually after you've lost, or had a down in your career? If my memory serves me correctly, Wilder didn't lose until his second Fury fight. If my memory serves me correctly even further, it was Fury who jumped in and put an end to the shenanigans between Wilder and AJ where each side continuously claimed the other side was ducking. This is all well documented and was talked about ad nauseum in the forum.

The following post I think is much more accurate:

Originally Posted by ykdadamaja

The thing is, AJ dick riders will use this as an excuse to say AJ was better and would have beaten Wilder. But I contend the 2016/2017 Wilder would have knocked AJ spark out. Like he did Fury in the first fight, just that AJ would not have gotten up.

To be clear, nobody on here disputes the fact that Wilder's fundamentals have always been flawed. That he built his early resume on inferior opposition. That he had a huge right hand and little else.

But in Spanish we have a saying: "Del arbol caído todos hacen leña." Literally translated, "everyone makes firewood from the fallen tree." The closest idea in English would be "beating a dead horse."

Now that Wilder is basically, um... firewood, it's typical boxing fan behavior to dismiss him entirely. At every stage of his career. Forget his two fights against the heavily avoided Luis Ortiz. Oh... he was too old? You mean like Zhang old? Oops, I forgot. Zhang is older than Luis Ortiz was at that time. Yet he could be in line for a title shot.

So yeah... not all AJ fans are "dick riders." Not all Wilder detractors are haters.

But the fact is no one knows for certain who was ducking whom between Wilder and AJ. All I know is Fury came in and spared us a continuation of the soap opera.

Had Wilder and AJ met at that point in time? Matter of bar/pub discussion.

I'll play it safe and call it a 50/50 fight.

It'll never happen, as Wilder is on his way out of boxing... and AJ has commendably come back from his own losses.

Originally Posted by TitoFan

Originally Posted by TIC

deontay's power always seemed overrated to me. there's a reason he targeted tyson on the comeback trail over aj

"... targeted Tyson on the comeback trail over AJ..."

Help me understand here. Aren't comebacks usually after you've lost, or had a down in your career? If my memory serves me correctly, Wilder didn't lose until his second Fury fight. If my memory serves me correctly even further, it was Fury who jumped in and put an end to the shenanigans between Wilder and AJ where each side continuously claimed the other side was ducking. This is all well documented and was talked about ad nauseum in the forum.

To be clear, nobody on here disputes the fact that Wilder's fundamentals have always been flawed. That he built his early resume on inferior opposition. That he had a huge right hand and little else.

Forget his two fights against the heavily avoided Luis Ortiz. Oh... he was too old? You mean like Zhang old? Oops, I forgot. Zhang is older than Luis Ortiz was at that time. Yet he could be in line for a title shot.

deontay targeted tyson who was on the comeback trail. it was a good choice because tyson hadn't looked good in his two fights back after over two & a half years out & he still held some type of claim to being the man that beat the man. tyson should have won that fight once it got to the cards. deontay's team couldn't see that if he wasn't able to beat tyson at that point he wasn't beating a better prepared tyson in the rematch. luis was either off the peds when he fought deontay or on heart/ blood pressure medication which lead to the fight being cancelled originally. deontay even admitted that he turned down bigger money offered to fight aj to take the tyson rematch. i've always felt aj would have beaten deontay & like i said deontay's power seemed overrated to me

Originally Posted by TitoFan

Originally Posted by TIC

deontay's power always seemed overrated to me. there's a reason he targeted tyson on the comeback trail over aj

"... targeted Tyson on the comeback trail over AJ..."

Help me understand here. Aren't comebacks usually after you've lost, or had a down in your career? If my memory serves me correctly, Wilder didn't lose until his second Fury fight. If my memory serves me correctly even further, it was Fury who jumped in and put an end to the shenanigans between Wilder and AJ where each side continuously claimed the other side was ducking. This is all well documented and was talked about ad nauseum in the forum.

The following post I think is much more accurate:

Originally Posted by ykdadamaja

The thing is, AJ dick riders will use this as an excuse to say AJ was better and would have beaten Wilder. But I contend the 2016/2017 Wilder would have knocked AJ spark out. Like he did Fury in the first fight, just that AJ would not have gotten up.

To be clear, nobody on here disputes the fact that Wilder's fundamentals have always been flawed. That he built his early resume on inferior opposition. That he had a huge right hand and little else.

But in Spanish we have a saying: "Del arbol caído todos hacen leña." Literally translated, "everyone makes firewood from the fallen tree." The closest idea in English would be "beating a dead horse."

Now that Wilder is basically, um... firewood, it's typical boxing fan behavior to dismiss him entirely. At every stage of his career. Forget his two fights against the heavily avoided Luis Ortiz. Oh... he was too old? You mean like Zhang old? Oops, I forgot. Zhang is older than Luis Ortiz was at that time. Yet he could be in line for a title shot.

So yeah... not all AJ fans are "dick riders." Not all Wilder detractors are haters.

But the fact is no one knows for certain who was ducking whom between Wilder and AJ. All I know is Fury came in and spared us a continuation of the soap opera.

Had Wilder and AJ met at that point in time? Matter of bar/pub discussion.

I'll play it safe and call it a 50/50 fight.

It'll never happen, as Wilder is on his way out of boxing... and AJ has commendably come back from his own losses.

I’m not going to dig it all up, but it’s fairly common knowledge to the extent that Wilder admitted that he pulled out of negotiations for the fight in order to fight Fury.
He even tweeted that he took less money for the Fury fight than he would’ve got for the Joshua fight.

Wilder overachieved
I feel he was also overrated
Given a different ref maybe the 1st Fury is stopped
His career would be looked at differently if that happened
He won a bronze medal
He got paid well, hopefully he's been smart with his money to set up his family
He gave us some highlight reel KO's & knockdowns
I hope he steps away
If he sticks around he needs to be fighting the Mark De Mori's of the boxing world

Originally Posted by Primo Carnera

Originally Posted by TitoFan

Originally Posted by TIC

deontay's power always seemed overrated to me. there's a reason he targeted tyson on the comeback trail over aj

"... targeted Tyson on the comeback trail over AJ..."

Help me understand here. Aren't comebacks usually after you've lost, or had a down in your career? If my memory serves me correctly, Wilder didn't lose until his second Fury fight. If my memory serves me correctly even further, it was Fury who jumped in and put an end to the shenanigans between Wilder and AJ where each side continuously claimed the other side was ducking. This is all well documented and was talked about ad nauseum in the forum.

The following post I think is much more accurate:

Originally Posted by ykdadamaja

The thing is, AJ dick riders will use this as an excuse to say AJ was better and would have beaten Wilder. But I contend the 2016/2017 Wilder would have knocked AJ spark out. Like he did Fury in the first fight, just that AJ would not have gotten up.

To be clear, nobody on here disputes the fact that Wilder's fundamentals have always been flawed. That he built his early resume on inferior opposition. That he had a huge right hand and little else.

But in Spanish we have a saying: "Del arbol caído todos hacen leña." Literally translated, "everyone makes firewood from the fallen tree." The closest idea in English would be "beating a dead horse."

Now that Wilder is basically, um... firewood, it's typical boxing fan behavior to dismiss him entirely. At every stage of his career. Forget his two fights against the heavily avoided Luis Ortiz. Oh... he was too old? You mean like Zhang old? Oops, I forgot. Zhang is older than Luis Ortiz was at that time. Yet he could be in line for a title shot.

So yeah... not all AJ fans are "dick riders." Not all Wilder detractors are haters.

But the fact is no one knows for certain who was ducking whom between Wilder and AJ. All I know is Fury came in and spared us a continuation of the soap opera.

Had Wilder and AJ met at that point in time? Matter of bar/pub discussion.

I'll play it safe and call it a 50/50 fight.

It'll never happen, as Wilder is on his way out of boxing... and AJ has commendably come back from his own losses.

I’m not going to dig it all up, but it’s fairly common knowledge to the extent that Wilder admitted that he pulled out of negotiations for the fight in order to fight Fury.
He even tweeted that he took less money for the Fury fight than he would’ve got for the Joshua fight.

Which proves what exactly... that Wilder was avoiding Joshua? That Wilder was scared of Joshua?

Spin it as you like. Fact is, they were both involved in an interminable (and to us fans, insufferable) back-and-forth from which Fury saved us all. It's one of the few things I give Fury credit for in his career. He took on the big, bad monster... and was successful. Had Joshua been as willing to take that challenge as Fury was... he was perfectly capable of making it happen.

Differently from most other boxing fans, I pay less attention to empty words from fighters on social media, and more attention to circumstances, track records, and intentions.

The corner of one of the fighters posted this 6 hours ago and unseen angle supposedly it is pretty interesting actually https://youtu.be/FtNpgBj0_mE?si=CNmJsycLU4cR1fz4

Wilder certainly did not see the punch

The other interesting thing about the clip is the amount of delusional rubbish the corner say.

Originally Posted by TitoFan

Originally Posted by Primo Carnera

Originally Posted by TitoFan

Originally Posted by TIC

deontay's power always seemed overrated to me. there's a reason he targeted tyson on the comeback trail over aj

"... targeted Tyson on the comeback trail over AJ..."

Help me understand here. Aren't comebacks usually after you've lost, or had a down in your career? If my memory serves me correctly, Wilder didn't lose until his second Fury fight. If my memory serves me correctly even further, it was Fury who jumped in and put an end to the shenanigans between Wilder and AJ where each side continuously claimed the other side was ducking. This is all well documented and was talked about ad nauseum in the forum.

The following post I think is much more accurate:

Originally Posted by ykdadamaja

The thing is, AJ dick riders will use this as an excuse to say AJ was better and would have beaten Wilder. But I contend the 2016/2017 Wilder would have knocked AJ spark out. Like he did Fury in the first fight, just that AJ would not have gotten up.

To be clear, nobody on here disputes the fact that Wilder's fundamentals have always been flawed. That he built his early resume on inferior opposition. That he had a huge right hand and little else.

But in Spanish we have a saying: "Del arbol caído todos hacen leña." Literally translated, "everyone makes firewood from the fallen tree." The closest idea in English would be "beating a dead horse."

Now that Wilder is basically, um... firewood, it's typical boxing fan behavior to dismiss him entirely. At every stage of his career. Forget his two fights against the heavily avoided Luis Ortiz. Oh... he was too old? You mean like Zhang old? Oops, I forgot. Zhang is older than Luis Ortiz was at that time. Yet he could be in line for a title shot.

So yeah... not all AJ fans are "dick riders." Not all Wilder detractors are haters.

But the fact is no one knows for certain who was ducking whom between Wilder and AJ. All I know is Fury came in and spared us a continuation of the soap opera.

Had Wilder and AJ met at that point in time? Matter of bar/pub discussion.

I'll play it safe and call it a 50/50 fight.

It'll never happen, as Wilder is on his way out of boxing... and AJ has commendably come back from his own losses.

I’m not going to dig it all up, but it’s fairly common knowledge to the extent that Wilder admitted that he pulled out of negotiations for the fight in order to fight Fury.
He even tweeted that he took less money for the Fury fight than he would’ve got for the Joshua fight.

Which proves what exactly... that Wilder was avoiding Joshua? That Wilder was scared of Joshua?

Spin it as you like. Fact is, they were both involved in an interminable (and to us fans, insufferable) back-and-forth from which Fury saved us all. It's one of the few things I give Fury credit for in his career. He took on the big, bad monster... and was successful. Had Joshua been as willing to take that challenge as Fury was... he was perfectly capable of making it happen.

Differently from most other boxing fans, I pay less attention to empty words from fighters on social media, and more attention to circumstances, track records, and intentions.

I can’t copy and paste it cos I don’t know how to , but this is a tweet from Wilder at 19.09 on 31/10/2020.

“ When that fight was a draw, I told you that I would give you a rematch. You know I was offered more money to fight Joshua than I was getting to fight you. Again being a man of my word, I fought you
like I said I would...”
clear as day , it’s down to Wilder why the fight never happened , nobody else.
Or perhaps when they were in negotiations and Wilder said he was “offering AJ” , when in fact Wilder was having an elbow op.
Anyway , see what you want to see, but Wilder got found out and never recovered.
AJ got found out by Ruiz and put it right , and got found out by Usyk and when straight back in with him.
And although he was beaten by the better man again, yes he had a meltdown in the ring immediately after, but what has he done since ? Everything possible to put himself in contention.

The more Wilder gets slated, the more impressive his accomplishments become. A tough man, with a big punch who came to boxing late out of necessity. Olympian and World champion. I wish I was as shit at something as Wilder is at boxing.

I can't for the life of me understand how or why people kept trying to change him, when he showed no sign of being receptive. In the words of Paulie. He's a bruiser he ain't no boxer. Work with what you've got.

Originally Posted by TitoFan

Originally Posted by Primo Carnera

Originally Posted by TitoFan

Originally Posted by TIC

deontay's power always seemed overrated to me. there's a reason he targeted tyson on the comeback trail over aj

"... targeted Tyson on the comeback trail over AJ..."

Help me understand here. Aren't comebacks usually after you've lost, or had a down in your career? If my memory serves me correctly, Wilder didn't lose until his second Fury fight. If my memory serves me correctly even further, it was Fury who jumped in and put an end to the shenanigans between Wilder and AJ where each side continuously claimed the other side was ducking. This is all well documented and was talked about ad nauseum in the forum.

The following post I think is much more accurate:

Originally Posted by ykdadamaja

The thing is, AJ dick riders will use this as an excuse to say AJ was better and would have beaten Wilder. But I contend the 2016/2017 Wilder would have knocked AJ spark out. Like he did Fury in the first fight, just that AJ would not have gotten up.

To be clear, nobody on here disputes the fact that Wilder's fundamentals have always been flawed. That he built his early resume on inferior opposition. That he had a huge right hand and little else.

But in Spanish we have a saying: "Del arbol caído todos hacen leña." Literally translated, "everyone makes firewood from the fallen tree." The closest idea in English would be "beating a dead horse."

Now that Wilder is basically, um... firewood, it's typical boxing fan behavior to dismiss him entirely. At every stage of his career. Forget his two fights against the heavily avoided Luis Ortiz. Oh... he was too old? You mean like Zhang old? Oops, I forgot. Zhang is older than Luis Ortiz was at that time. Yet he could be in line for a title shot.

So yeah... not all AJ fans are "dick riders." Not all Wilder detractors are haters.

But the fact is no one knows for certain who was ducking whom between Wilder and AJ. All I know is Fury came in and spared us a continuation of the soap opera.

Had Wilder and AJ met at that point in time? Matter of bar/pub discussion.

I'll play it safe and call it a 50/50 fight.

It'll never happen, as Wilder is on his way out of boxing... and AJ has commendably come back from his own losses.

I’m not going to dig it all up, but it’s fairly common knowledge to the extent that Wilder admitted that he pulled out of negotiations for the fight in order to fight Fury.
He even tweeted that he took less money for the Fury fight than he would’ve got for the Joshua fight.

Which proves what exactly... that Wilder was avoiding Joshua? That Wilder was scared of Joshua?

Spin it as you like. Fact is, they were both involved in an interminable (and to us fans, insufferable) back-and-forth from which Fury saved us all. It's one of the few things I give Fury credit for in his career. He took on the big, bad monster... and was successful. Had Joshua been as willing to take that challenge as Fury was... he was perfectly capable of making it happen.

Differently from most other boxing fans, I pay less attention to empty words from fighters on social media, and more attention to circumstances, track records, and intentions.

it proves that both deontay & tyson chose to fight each other instead of the perceived best guy in the division. deontay went after tyson who was on the comeback trail & tyson chose to fight deontay who held one belt both instead of going after the guy who held three belts & was seen as number one in the division. no need to spin anything that's what happened. tyson could of saved us by chosing aj instead. the big bad monster for me was the guy rated number one who held three of the four major belts. had deontay & tyson been willing to take the challenge of the number one rated guy who held three belts, they were both perfectly capable of making it happen

Originally Posted by Master

Wilder certainly did not see the punch

The other interesting thing about the clip is the amount of delusional rubbish the corner say.

Utterly delusional rubbish it's one of the first things I thought when I heard it. What on Earth are they thinking? Move your hand just a little bit? Move your hand slightly? Over and over the same thing. What on Earth are they talking about? Why only this?

I got nothing bad to say about wilder. He's a banger. He launched atomic missiles for years and smoked guys and disturbing ways. Some of those guys were twitching. So the guy has power for sure I just don't know why he didn't unleash that power in his last fight. I didn't see one knockout punch even attempted the way he used to do it. I used to call him the atomic windmill. He didn't even try any of that windmill stuff. Too cautious probably because of the knockout at the hands of the Gypsy King. I hope he fights just one more time and gets a decent performance and then maybe he can call it quits. Nothing bad to say about the guy. He brought excitement

Originally Posted by Primo Carnera

Originally Posted by TitoFan

Originally Posted by Primo Carnera

Originally Posted by TitoFan

Originally Posted by TIC

deontay's power always seemed overrated to me. there's a reason he targeted tyson on the comeback trail over aj

"... targeted Tyson on the comeback trail over AJ..."

Help me understand here. Aren't comebacks usually after you've lost, or had a down in your career? If my memory serves me correctly, Wilder didn't lose until his second Fury fight. If my memory serves me correctly even further, it was Fury who jumped in and put an end to the shenanigans between Wilder and AJ where each side continuously claimed the other side was ducking. This is all well documented and was talked about ad nauseum in the forum.

The following post I think is much more accurate:

Originally Posted by ykdadamaja

The thing is, AJ dick riders will use this as an excuse to say AJ was better and would have beaten Wilder. But I contend the 2016/2017 Wilder would have knocked AJ spark out. Like he did Fury in the first fight, just that AJ would not have gotten up.

To be clear, nobody on here disputes the fact that Wilder's fundamentals have always been flawed. That he built his early resume on inferior opposition. That he had a huge right hand and little else.

But in Spanish we have a saying: "Del arbol caído todos hacen leña." Literally translated, "everyone makes firewood from the fallen tree." The closest idea in English would be "beating a dead horse."

Now that Wilder is basically, um... firewood, it's typical boxing fan behavior to dismiss him entirely. At every stage of his career. Forget his two fights against the heavily avoided Luis Ortiz. Oh... he was too old? You mean like Zhang old? Oops, I forgot. Zhang is older than Luis Ortiz was at that time. Yet he could be in line for a title shot.

So yeah... not all AJ fans are "dick riders." Not all Wilder detractors are haters.

But the fact is no one knows for certain who was ducking whom between Wilder and AJ. All I know is Fury came in and spared us a continuation of the soap opera.

Had Wilder and AJ met at that point in time? Matter of bar/pub discussion.

I'll play it safe and call it a 50/50 fight.

It'll never happen, as Wilder is on his way out of boxing... and AJ has commendably come back from his own losses.

I’m not going to dig it all up, but it’s fairly common knowledge to the extent that Wilder admitted that he pulled out of negotiations for the fight in order to fight Fury.
He even tweeted that he took less money for the Fury fight than he would’ve got for the Joshua fight.

Which proves what exactly... that Wilder was avoiding Joshua? That Wilder was scared of Joshua?

Spin it as you like. Fact is, they were both involved in an interminable (and to us fans, insufferable) back-and-forth from which Fury saved us all. It's one of the few things I give Fury credit for in his career. He took on the big, bad monster... and was successful. Had Joshua been as willing to take that challenge as Fury was... he was perfectly capable of making it happen.

Differently from most other boxing fans, I pay less attention to empty words from fighters on social media, and more attention to circumstances, track records, and intentions.

I can’t copy and paste it cos I don’t know how to , but this is a tweet from Wilder at 19.09 on 31/10/2020.

“ When that fight was a draw, I told you that I would give you a rematch. You know I was offered more money to fight Joshua than I was getting to fight you. Again being a man of my word, I fought you
like I said I would...”
clear as day , it’s down to Wilder why the fight never happened , nobody else.
Or perhaps when they were in negotiations and Wilder said he was “offering AJ” , when in fact Wilder was having an elbow op.
Anyway , see what you want to see, but Wilder got found out and never recovered.
AJ got found out by Ruiz and put it right , and got found out by Usyk and when straight back in with him.
And although he was beaten by the better man again, yes he had a meltdown in the ring immediately after, but what has he done since ? Everything possible to put himself in contention.

Oh so you're referring to AFTER Wilder had fought Fury the first time. As long as we understand each other.

So just to be clear, you're not pushing the "Wilder was ducking Joshua" rubbish angle.

Good.

Beyond that, I don't see anything you wrote which contradicts anything I've written.

I clearly stated that Wilder and Joshua have gone in opposite directions since then.

If it makes you feel better to say it in your own words, that's cool.

My point remains.

Claims that Wilder may have ducked (or been afraid to fight) Joshua are groundless and unsubstantiated. To be fair, the other way around can't be proven either.

Had Wilder and Joshua met when they were SUPPOSED to, IMHO it would've been a 50/50 fight.

Wilder was not yet damaged... and Joshua's style was not all wrong for Wilder.

Nothing more need be said.

Realized again that one of the more enjoyable tools here are the "similar topics" threads below and search feature. All I can say is I cannot deny being consistently skeptical and at times harsh on ol Wilder . Really like looking back for some perspective and how far we've come when it comes to looking at Wilder and what developed. This was after his first defense vs Eric Molina and really the kick off of his 'peakish' ferocity and highlights. With hindsight I really ask myself if his most impressive win...overall, as far as looking complete and working things out and using skills...was his title winning performance in Stiverne I. He dominated really and was not getting his head boxed off before a from behind ko. Ironically the only fight he won on the cards. Also have to say it was never a personal tear down on him but more so the almost favoritism and going out of the way to maneuver him along. A number of title challengers literally ranked nowhere near the top ten or teens shortly before defense, and then magically shot up the charts by the wbc in order to pass mustard and push the hype. And frankly the "want a body on my record" never sat well. But do hope he genuinely takes some time not only as a fighter but mainly as a husband, father and man to evaluate a course and where his road now leads. No need to get hammered out again though at the highest level. https://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfo...ilder-now.html

Round 12 of Ball vs Ford had me on my feet with excitement. I was expecting Dubois to quit again. I am pleased he showed heart. I wonder if the fight had continued & gone into the late rounds what might have happened. Hrgovic also showed a granite chin. Wilder's team shouldn't have put him in with Zhang. How do we compare the two careers? Is Zhang's power better? He has better technique but is very slow