Thread: Why does everybody overate Hagler so much on here?

Don't get me wrong he was a great fighter(among the best). He was relatively fast, amazing chin, good boxer, and a better brawler, accurate, but besides being the best middleweight who stayed at the weight he was not the best. The fight with Duran or the fight Leonard should prove that. Leonard hadn't fought in 3 years, and still gave Hagler all he could handle. To say he could handle Roy IMO is ludicrous because Roy was way better than either Hearns and Leonard were by the time they went up to middleweight. He harder than Hearns, and he was faster than middleweight Leonard. Not only that Hearns buckled Hagler's knees, and Duran made him feel his punches so I don't see how his chin is as good as James Toney's who hasn't been hurt like Hagler was against Hearns at heavyweight against a 240 pound guy known for his punching power. I still say that if Hearns hadn't broken his hand it would have been a different fight between him and Hagler because he couldn't hit as hard after that.

Originally Posted by Taeth

Don't get me wrong he was a great fighter(among the best). He was relatively fast, amazing chin, good boxer, and a better brawler, accurate, but besides being the best middleweight who stayed at the weight he was not the best. The fight with Duran or the fight Leonard should prove that. Leonard hadn't fought in 3 years, and still gave Hagler all he could handle. To say he could handle Roy IMO is ludicrous because Roy was way better than either Hearns and Leonard were by the time they went up to middleweight. He harder than Hearns, and he was faster than middleweight Leonard. Not only that Hearns buckled Hagler's knees, and Duran made him feel his punches so I don't see how his chin is as good as James Toney's who hasn't been hurt like Hagler was against Hearns at heavyweight against a 240 pound guy known for his punching power. I still say that if Hearns hadn't broken his hand it would have been a different fight between him and Hagler because he couldn't hit as hard after that.

I don't think he is overrated he beat everyone there is the beat revenged his losses beat Duran Hearns Mugabi and lost controversial fight to Leonard which many think he won im not one of them i mean you can't argue with his record he is a great and i don't think he is overrated at all.

I agree he is a great, but not the greatest and Leonard proved that. Though I think Hagler fought the wrong fight at the begining thats part of the fight game. I think he would also had a very difficult time with Hopkins who is another guy who could box on the outside and on the inside.

Originally Posted by Taeth

I agree he is a great, but not the greatest and Leonard proved that. Though I think Hagler fought the wrong fight at the begining thats part of the fight game. I think he would also had a very difficult time with Hopkins who is another guy who could box on the outside and on the inside.

I agree with you i don't think he is greatest either but the man had great record and great wins and he would be rated a hell of alot higher if he would of got the nod against Leonard then he could say he beat all of them Duran Leonard Hearns and the guy had amazing chin he was great fighter not greatest but he was pleasure to watch.

15 or 16 world title fights and only 2 went distance and only lost 1 on a SD to SRL the man is a middleweight great

Taeth as much as a enjoy your comments I think you are showing your ass on this one.

He was undisputed champion for 7 years so that means he beat all comers at least twice a year in that time. Would love to have seen him against Monzon, I think he would have struggled there.
He really should have fought Leonard again.

hagler is far from overrated.

Originally Posted by boozeboxer

Taeth as much as a enjoy your comments I think you are showing your a** on this one.

I don't understand how? I'm saying he's an ATG, and that he beat some good fighters, and he was as complete a package as they came. However because in certain aspects such as speed some guys were still so much more superior than him that they would beat him because of a certain advantage that why he is overrated because he can't beat anyone at middleweight, and Leonard proved that.

The Leonard fight was as close as they come and could have gone either way. Hagler was one of those fighters that was a nightmare for anyone to fight...Roy Jones included. As far as Toney having a better jaw than Hagler...that must be a joke. Hearns was one of the all time hardest punchers in the sport to go along with his great skill...and Hagler handled him. As far as i'm concerned...Toney fought only one truly great opponent in his career....Roy Jones...and we know what happened there...including Roy making him land on his fat ass. Just because Toney has fought some unskilled stiffs at heavyweight...doesn't mean he has a better chin than Hagler. Marvin fought some of the hardest punchers in the sport...and never embarrassed himself. Also don't forget...Toney is ultimately a defensive fighter...someone who uses the shoulder roll to avoid getting hit...Hagler was a completely different fighter.

Originally Posted by Taeth

Don't get me wrong he was a great fighter(among the best). He was relatively fast, amazing chin, good boxer, and a better brawler, accurate, but besides being the best middleweight who stayed at the weight he was not the best. The fight with Duran or the fight Leonard should prove that. Leonard hadn't fought in 3 years, and still gave Hagler all he could handle. To say he could handle Roy IMO is ludicrous because Roy was way better than either Hearns and Leonard were by the time they went up to middleweight. He harder than Hearns, and he was faster than middleweight Leonard. Not only that Hearns buckled Hagler's knees, and Duran made him feel his punches so I don't see how his chin is as good as James Toney's who hasn't been hurt like Hagler was against Hearns at heavyweight against a 240 pound guy known for his punching power. I still say that if Hearns hadn't broken his hand it would have been a different fight between him and Hagler because he couldn't hit as hard after that.

You are actually wrong James Toney was wobbled be light punching Tim Littles if i remember rightly his legs did a JIG but he came back to win by knockout.
im not saying he was out on his feet but i think he was hurt more than Hagler v Hearns , and Littles was a light puncher and hearns hit like a mule.
Of course he just got caught with a fast punch and has showed his chin againest Peter.
But there is no doubt Marvin had a concrete chin as did Mr Lights OUT

Where do you get the idea that he's overrated? If every other thread was titled Hagler: greatest pd for pd of all time maybe I'd get you. He get's lot of respect here because of what he is, an all time great as you said yourself. For me he's second after Robinson in the midddleweights.
Roy Jones made his name at higher weights, but still Hagler gives him a hell of fight for every minute of every round, Roy met absolutely no one like him in the ring.

Originally Posted by zhubin

The Leonard fight was as close as they come and could have gone either way. Hagler was one of those fighters that was a nightmare for anyone to fight...Roy Jones included. As far as Toney having a better jaw than Hagler...that must be a joke. Hearns was one of the all time hardest punchers in the sport to go along with his great skill...and Hagler handled him. As far as i'm concerned...Toney fought only one truly great opponent in his career....Roy Jones...and we know what happened there...including Roy making him land on his fat a**. Just because Toney has fought some unskilled stiffs at heavyweight...doesn't mean he has a better chin than Hagler. Marvin fought some of the hardest punchers in the sport...and never embarrassed himself. Also don't forget...Toney is ultimately a defensive fighter...someone who uses the shoulder roll to avoid getting hit...Hagler was a completely different fighter.

I'm pretty sure that Hasim Rahman and Sam Peter hit harder than Hearns did at 160 lb.

Taeth does have a point. A prime Jones Jr EASILY handled James Toney and Bernard Hopkins and it's entirely possible he could have done the same to Hagler.

Rahman and Peter?!!! Besides being big strong guys...they got nothing else going for them. Hearns was pound 4 pound one of the best punchers in history TO GO ALONG his great skill. It's always tougher to fight a guy who has great power to go along with other great assets vs. fighting some slow stiffs who just pack a big punch.

Originally Posted by zhubin

The Leonard fight was as close as they come and could have gone either way. Hagler was one of those fighters that was a nightmare for anyone to fight...Roy Jones included. As far as Toney having a better jaw than Hagler...that must be a joke. Hearns was one of the all time hardest punchers in the sport to go along with his great skill...and Hagler handled him. As far as i'm concerned...Toney fought only one truly great opponent in his career....Roy Jones...and we know what happened there...including Roy making him land on his fat a**. Just because Toney has fought some unskilled stiffs at heavyweight...doesn't mean he has a better chin than Hagler. Marvin fought some of the hardest punchers in the sport...and never embarrassed himself. Also don't forget...Toney is ultimately a defensive fighter...someone who uses the shoulder roll to avoid getting hit...Hagler was a completely different fighter.

Your saying that hearns hits harder than current hardest hitting heavyweight in the world who has hit Toney cleanly? Hagler has foughten some guys who hit hard at middleweight, but you forget that Hearns broke his hand after that first punch that really stunned Hagler, and nobody hits as hard with a broken hand. I am saying purely Hagler wouldn't be able to take Peter's power no way in hell.

Also Hagler was a nightmare for opponents who couldn't keep him off. Roy was a unique blend that hit harder than Hearns and was faster than Leonard at middleweight. So many guys like Merqui Sosa(who had the best chin in the sport at the time) came into a fight with Roy never being even wobbled in their career only to find his speed and power putting them on their asses. Hagler is great, but Roy beats almost everyone p4p, and thats why I think people are overhyping Hagler a little bit on here. As good as he was, he was beatable.