Thread: ESPNs top 50 Fighters of all time

About 18 months ago, ESPN.com listed their 50 Greatest Boxers of All time. This was not done as a mythical pound-for-pound ranking, but was based on 4 key criteria:

In-ring Performance
Achievements
Dominance
Mainstream Appeal

I suppose using that criteria would give you a very different list to a mythical pound-for-pound list like we normally do (i.e Pernell Whitaker only at number 44! )

Anyway here's the list: Lets argue

P.S It is 18 months old, so no Pacman


1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Henry Armstrong
4. Joe Louis
5. Willie Pep
6. Roberto Duran
7. Benny Leonard
8. Jack Johnson
9. Jack Dempsey
10. Sam Langford
11. Joe Gans
12. Sugar Ray Leonard
13. Harry Greb
14. Rocky Marciano
15. Jimmy Wilde
16. Gene Tunney
17. Mickey Walker
18. Archie Moore
19. Stanley Ketchel
20. George Foreman
21. Tony Canzoneri
22. Barney Ross
23. Jimmy McLarnin
24. Julio Cesar Chavez
25. Marcel Cerdan
26. Joe Frazier
27. Ezzard Charles
28. Jake LaMotta
29. Sandy Saddler
30. Terry McGovern
31. Billy Conn
32. Jose Napoles
33. Ruben Olivares
34. Emile Griffith
35. Marvin Hagler
36. Eder Jofre
37. Thomas Hearns
38. Larry Holmes
39. Oscar De La Hoya
40. Evander Holyfield
41. Ted "Kid" Lewis
42. Alexis Arguello
43. Marco Antonio Barrera
44. Pernell Whitaker
45. Carlos Monzon
46. Roy Jones Jr.
47. Bernard Hopkins
48. Floyd Mayweather Jnr
49. Erik Morales
50. Mike Tyson

I think RJJ and Mayweather may deserve to be higher.
Ezzard Charles too and Archie.

But I agree with all the names mentioned

My biggest beef with this was Ali at number 2 and Sam Langford being at 10. Now that I look at it again Sugar Ray Leonard at 12 is absurd and Marvin Hagler at 35 the man terrorized the middleweight division for 10 years plus and was dodged by Leonard and many others for years. Marcel Cerdan at 25 and Lamotta at 28 something certainly wrong there. Benny Leonard not in the top ten. Harry Greb at 13 should definetly be in the top ten any man who can fight while being blind in one eye and winning nonetheless should easily be placed in the top ten. Greb and Benny Leonard should be switched. One more if I am not mistaken didn't Saddler beat Willie Pep 3 out of 4 times how and why the hell is Saddler rated so low at 29. Ted Kid Williams and Larry Holmes at least move up ten to fifteen spots.

What a BS list
Hopkins holds the record for middleweight defenses,and moved up to take another title,and he's 47th
Holmes was one robbery decision away from tying Marciano for undefeated champs,and he's below Frazier?

Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

What a BS list
Hopkins holds the record for middleweight defenses,and moved up to take another title,and he's 47th
Holmes was one robbery decision away from tying Marciano for undefeated champs,and he's below Frazier?

wat he said

Ring Magazine's list of the 80 Best Fighters of the Last 80 Years - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

here it is

How can Pernell Whitaker only be 44 ? he is one of the GOAT IMO, he only lost one legit fight to Felix Trinida. And thats when he just got out of rehab, and he still won 3 rounds and had Felix Trinidad badly hurt in the 7th round.

Azumah Nelson
Julio Cesar Chavez
Roger Mayweather
Jose Luis Ramirez x2
Greg Haugen
Freddie Pendleton
Jorge Paez
James McGirt x2
Julio Cesar Vasquez
Wilfredo Rivera x2
Rafael Pineda

Titles at Lightweight, Jr Welterweight, Welterweight, Jr Middleweight.

Number 44 is fucking BS end of.

Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

What a BS list
Hopkins holds the record for middleweight defenses,and moved up to take another title,and he's 47th
Holmes was one robbery decision away from tying Marciano for undefeated champs,and he's below Frazier?

Yeah.. what a shit list

Calzaghe has the record for supermiddle defences, moved-up to lightheavy to take another title off HOPKINS and he is.. err.. nowhere...

that is a old list though. but i think the ring or bert sugar had mad a top 80 fighters for the past 80 years i will post it if i find it again.

It would be interesting to see how the four criteria are weighted, whether or not the weightings are consistent among the fighters, and how each fighter measured on the four criteria.

My guess is mainstream appeal is higher than I would like to see it.

Too much weight to fighters from previous eras. Legend grows over time I suppose. Probably too much emphasis on heavyweights.

George Forman way too high. Not particuilarly skilled, looked a total klutz against Ali.

I wouldn't put Duran that far ahead of some others such as Hagler and Arguello.

Tyson underrated compared to some of the other heavyweights.

Arguello too low. Hagler too low compared to some others.

Holmes too low compared to guys like Frazier, Foreman, Dempsey, Marciano.

Olivares maybe a little high.

Floyd is too low.

Originally Posted by BIG H

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Henry Armstrong
4. Joe Louis
5. Willie Pep
6. Roberto Duran
7. Benny Leonard
8. Jack Johnson
9. Jack Dempsey
10. Sam Langford
11. Joe Gans
12. Sugar Ray Leonard
13. Harry Greb
14. Rocky Marciano
15. Jimmy Wilde
16. Gene Tunney
17. Mickey Walker
18. Archie Moore
19. Stanley Ketchel
20. George Foreman
21. Tony Canzoneri
22. Barney Ross
23. Jimmy McLarnin
24. Julio Cesar Chavez
25. Marcel Cerdan
26. Joe Frazier
27. Ezzard Charles
28. Jake LaMotta
29. Sandy Saddler
30. Terry McGovern
31. Billy Conn
32. Jose Napoles
33. Ruben Olivares
34. Emile Griffith
35. Marvin Hagler
36. Eder Jofre
37. Thomas Hearns
38. Larry Holmes
39. Oscar De La Hoya
40. Evander Holyfield
41. Ted "Kid" Lewis
42. Alexis Arguello
43. Marco Antonio Barrera
44. Pernell Whitaker
45. Carlos Monzon
46. Roy Jones Jr.
47. Bernard Hopkins
48. Floyd Mayweather Jnr
49. Erik Morales
50. Mike Tyson

Any list that doesn't include Ricardo Lopez is a garbage list

Originally Posted by Casamayor Nuthugger 4 Life

Originally Posted by BIG H

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Henry Armstrong
4. Joe Louis
5. Willie Pep
6. Roberto Duran
7. Benny Leonard
8. Jack Johnson
9. Jack Dempsey
10. Sam Langford
11. Joe Gans
12. Sugar Ray Leonard
13. Harry Greb
14. Rocky Marciano
15. Jimmy Wilde
16. Gene Tunney
17. Mickey Walker
18. Archie Moore
19. Stanley Ketchel
20. George Foreman
21. Tony Canzoneri
22. Barney Ross
23. Jimmy McLarnin
24. Julio Cesar Chavez
25. Marcel Cerdan
26. Joe Frazier
27. Ezzard Charles
28. Jake LaMotta
29. Sandy Saddler
30. Terry McGovern
31. Billy Conn
32. Jose Napoles
33. Ruben Olivares
34. Emile Griffith
35. Marvin Hagler
36. Eder Jofre
37. Thomas Hearns
38. Larry Holmes
39. Oscar De La Hoya
40. Evander Holyfield
41. Ted "Kid" Lewis
42. Alexis Arguello
43. Marco Antonio Barrera
44. Pernell Whitaker
45. Carlos Monzon
46. Roy Jones Jr.
47. Bernard Hopkins
48. Floyd Mayweather Jnr
49. Erik Morales
50. Mike Tyson

Any list that doesn't include Ricardo Lopez is a garbage list

I got Ricardo Lopez at 14 although my list was done quick. So its a bit all over the place, i think give or a take a few places thats about right, but your right any list without the great Ricardo Lopez is ridiculous.

Ditto and Ditto on Lopez....pathetic exclusion.

I mean its ESPN

I can't be the only one who expected a garbage list.

Originally Posted by Nonito Donaire

Originally Posted by Casamayor Nuthugger 4 Life

Originally Posted by BIG H

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Henry Armstrong
4. Joe Louis
5. Willie Pep
6. Roberto Duran
7. Benny Leonard
8. Jack Johnson
9. Jack Dempsey
10. Sam Langford
11. Joe Gans
12. Sugar Ray Leonard
13. Harry Greb
14. Rocky Marciano
15. Jimmy Wilde
16. Gene Tunney
17. Mickey Walker
18. Archie Moore
19. Stanley Ketchel
20. George Foreman
21. Tony Canzoneri
22. Barney Ross
23. Jimmy McLarnin
24. Julio Cesar Chavez
25. Marcel Cerdan
26. Joe Frazier
27. Ezzard Charles
28. Jake LaMotta
29. Sandy Saddler
30. Terry McGovern
31. Billy Conn
32. Jose Napoles
33. Ruben Olivares
34. Emile Griffith
35. Marvin Hagler
36. Eder Jofre
37. Thomas Hearns
38. Larry Holmes
39. Oscar De La Hoya
40. Evander Holyfield
41. Ted "Kid" Lewis
42. Alexis Arguello
43. Marco Antonio Barrera
44. Pernell Whitaker
45. Carlos Monzon
46. Roy Jones Jr.
47. Bernard Hopkins
48. Floyd Mayweather Jnr
49. Erik Morales
50. Mike Tyson

Any list that doesn't include Ricardo Lopez is a garbage list

I got Ricardo Lopez at 14 although my list was done quick. So its a bit all over the place, i think give or a take a few places thats about right, but your right any list without the great Ricardo Lopez is ridiculous.

I put my own top 30 on here a couple of years ago, I had Whitaker at 8 and Lopez at 13