Thread: JOE CALZAGHE was a better champ than JOE LOUIS

Below is my unbiased rating of Joe Louis and Joe Calzaghe's World title opponents.

Their opponents will be rated, as they would of pre fight. There will be no retrospective rating. Each opponent will be ranked from 0 to 10.

Obviously Louis had a few more title fights than Calzaghe, but I will give and overall percentage rating average of there opposition.

If anyone disputes my ratings of each boxers opponents. Then rank them yourself and see who you think is the best champion.

Joe Louis V James Braddock. Braddock was a career light heavy who returned to boxing to make money for his family. Not a particular heavy hitter @ Light Heavy, he managed to Floor Louis in the 1st round before losing in the 8th round. I’d have to rank Braddock at this stage of his career as a suitable opponent for Louis 5/10

Joe Calzaghe V Chris Eubank. Eubank was a former WBO middle & Super Middle champion who’s only two loses had come on close decisions to Steve Collins. Calzaghe floored Eubank in the first round and pounded out a conclusive unanimous decision. I’d have to rank Eubank at this stage of his career as a suitable opponent for Calzaghe as 8/10. I was tempted to give a 9.

Joe Louis V Tommy Farr. Farr was like Braddock a light heavyweight who had gone up to Heavyweight and he managed to give Louis a tough and close fight according to two of the scorecards in a 15 round fight. I rate Farr at this stage of his career as a suitable opponent for Louis 3/10

Joe Calzaghe V Branko Sobot. Sobot was a good level European fighter whose only loss up to this point had been on points to Hacine Cherifi. Calzaghe stopped him in the 3rd round for an easy first defence. I rate Sobot at this stage of his career as a suitable opponent for Calzaghe 7/10

Joe Louis V Nathan Mann. Mann was a pretty average heavyweight who had suffered four loses to not so great heavyweights. What he was doing in a world title fight is beyond me. I rate Mann at this stage of his career as a suitable opponent for Louis 3/10

Joe Calzaghe V Juan Carlos Giminez Ferreyra. Giminez was a former three times World title challenger and had never previously been stopped. He had lost his major fights by a fairly large point’s margin. I rate Giminez at this stage of his career as a suitable opponent for Calzaghe 6/10

Joe Louis V Harry Thomas. Prior to challenging Louis Thomas had lost two of his previous four bouts one by stoppage. He would in my book be rated a very unworthy challenger for the title. I rate Thomas at this stage of his career as a suitable opponent for Louis 2/10

Joe Calzaghe V Robin Reid. Reid was a former WBC champ who had lost his title to the tricky Thulani Malinga. Since the Malinga loss Reid had one win. Reid managed to take Calzaghe to a split decision. I rate Reid at this stage of his career as a suitable opponent for Calzaghe 7/10

Joe Louis V Max Schmeling. Schmeling had previous koed Louis in 10 rounds and was undefeated since. This is Louis first defence were the standard of his opposition could truly be called world class. I rate Schmeling at this stage of his career as a suitable opponent for Louis 10/10. There is no way he could be ranked lower. Probably the finest win of Louis career.

Joe Calzaghe V Rick Thornberry. Thornberry had suffered two stoppage loses in his career before facing Calzaghe. He was an average fighter. I rate Thornberry at this stage of his career as a suitable opponent for Calzaghe 4/10.

Joe Louis V John Henry Lewis. Lewis was The Light Heavyweight champion and you could argue that he was a suitable opponent for Louis. I rate Lewis at this stage of his career as a suitable opponent for Louis 5/10.

Joe Calzaghe V David Starie. Staries only previous defeat had been a stoppage defeat. He had won 8 fights since this loss before challenging Calzaghe. I rate Starie at this stage of his career as a suitable opponent for Calzaghe 5/10.

Joe Louis V Jack Roper. Roper had suffered thirteen previous KO loses before meeting Louis including 4 in the first round. At this stage of his career I can only give him 0/10. He was a truly awful title challenger.

Joe Calzaghe V Omar Sheika. Sheika was a hyped up prospect who had lost on points to English journeyman Tony Booth and had built his record on has beens and never will been’s. I rate Sheika at this stage of his career as a suitable opponent for Calzaghe 4/10.

Joe Louis V Tony Galento. Galento was a fat average heavyweight who boxed mostly average boxers throughout his career. At this stage of his career I can only give him 2/10.

Joe Calzaghe V Richie Woodhall. Woodhall was an ex WBC champ who was coming to the end of his career. He had lost his WBC title to Marcus Beyer. I rate Woodhall at this stage of his career as a suitable opponent for Calzaghe 6/10.

Joe Louis V Bob Pastor. Pastor had lost to Louis before he became champ and also lost to Nathan Mann who I rated 3/10. There for I can only give Pastor 2/10.

Joe Calzaghe V Mario Veit. Veit had padded his 30 – 0 record against bums. That said he was undefeated so I rate him at this stage of his career 6/10.

Joe Louis V Arturo Godoy. Godoy would win a few then lose. He was an ok heavyweight, but pre fight you wouldn’t have given him much chance against Louis.
I rate Godov at this stage of his career as a suitable opponent for Louis 3/10.

Joe Calzaghe V Will McIntyre. McIntyre had padded his record with wins against easy opponents. The times he upped his opposition he lost. I rate McIntyre at this stage of his career as a suitable opponent for Calzaghe 3/10.

Joe Louis V Arturo Godoy 2. Godoy had taken Louis to a split decision in his previous bout. I rate Godov at this stage of his career as a suitable opponent for Louis 8/10.

Joe Calzaghe V Charles Brewer. Brewer was a good boxer who would occasionally be let down by his chin. 5 of his loses prior to boxing Calzaghe had been by Split Decision including 2 of them to Sven Ottke. He’s really difficult to rate as only two fights before Calzaghe he was stopped in 3 rounds having knocked his opponent down 3 times. But I still consider him a capable opponent and will rate him 6/10.

Joe Louis V Al McCoy. McCoy had lost 11 of his last 21 bouts. He was a very unworthy challenger and I rate him 2/10

Joe Calzaghe V Miguel Angel Jiminez. Jiminez’s record had more padding than a cheap sofa. And I can only rate him 3/10

Joe Louis V Red Burman. Burman had suffered three previous stoppage loses including a 2 round 6 knock down stoppage loss as a Light Heavyweight to John Henry Lewis. Burman was an average pro and I can only award him 3/10.

Joe Calzaghe V Tocker Pudwill. Pudwill was a two weeks notice replacement for Thomas Tate. Pudwill was on a winning run of 5 having lost a decision to Sven Ottke for the IBF title. I rate him at this stage of his career as a suitable opponent 5/10.

Joe Louis V Gus Dorazi. Dorazio once again like a lot of Louis’s title challengers was an average opponent and can only be awarded 3/10.

Joe Calzaghe V Byron Mitchell. In his previous bout Mitchell had lost a Split decision to Sven Ottke a boxer who avoided Calzaghe like the plague. His only other career loss had been to Bruno Girard. Coming into the fight I would rate Mitchell as a suitable opponent for Calzaghe as 8/10.

Joe Louis V Abe Simon. Simon came into this bout of a 10 round points loss to the extremely average Jim Thompson. I can only give him 3/10.

Joe Calzaghe V Mger Mkrtchyan. Mkrtchyan had suffered one previous loss a two round stoppage. He like many boxers had a padded record. 2/10.

Joe Louis V Tony Musto. Were did they keep finding these bums to box Louis? 1/10

Joe Calzaghe V Kabary Salem. Salem had only ever lost on points and to fairly decent opposition. At this stage of his career I would rate him 5/10.

Joe Louis V Buddy Baer. Baer was an average boxer whose record was built against average opposition. 3/10.

Joe Calzaghe V Mario Veit. Veit had previously lost in a round to Calzaghe and was unbeaten since and had scored wins over Kabary Salem and Charles Brewer since. That said I still only rate him 3/10.

Joe Louis V Billy Conn. Conn was the reigning Light Heavyweight champ. He was a good champion but had originally begun his career as a Lightweight. He was certainly no heavyweight. At this stage of his career I rate him 5/10.

Joe Calzaghe V Evans Ashira. Ashira had been knocked out in 2 rounds at Middleweight a couple of fights before challenging Calzaghe. I rate Ashira at this stage of his career as a suitable opponent for Calzaghe 2/10. (Calzaghe broke his hand in this fight and fought one handed throughout the bout)

Joe Louis V Lou Nova. Nova built his record against average boxers; he had even lost to Tony Galento. I can only rate him 3/10.

Joe Calzaghe V Jeff Lacy. Lacy was unbeaten and had recently become the first boxer to stop former WBC champ Robin Reid. Coming into the Calzaghe fight I rate him 10/10.

Joe Louis V Buddy Baer. After the disqualification loss in their first bout Baer got a rematch. It wasn’t a deserved rematch, so once again he gets 3/10.

Joe Calzaghe V Sakio Bika. Bika had suffered one loss in his career to Sam Soliuman as a middleweight. His two draws had been technical decisions. He was a strong rugged boxer who would give any champion a tough time. Coming into the Calzaghe bout I rate him 6/10.

Joe Louis V Abe Simon. Simon had previously lost in 13 rounds to Louis, but in his previous bout before his second title challenge had been stopped in five rounds. Why this got him another shot is beyond me 2/10.

Joe Calzaghe V Peter Manfredo JR. 0/10 enough said.

Joe Louis V Johnny Davis. This was a disgraceful match. Davis was had 6 bouts winning 3 and being stopped 3 times. 0/10

Joe Calzaghe V Mikkell Kessler. Kessler was 39 – 0 coming into the bout. He was the reigning WBA & WBC champion and most peoples favourite to win. I have to rate Kessler 10/10. This was Calzaghes last defence before vacating the title. I would like to point out to Calzaghes critics that in the fight after Kessler he beat Bernard Hopkins. Most Boxing magazines rate Kessler and Hopkins as the BEST Super Middleweight and Light Heavyweights in the world. And I’m sure they will both end up in the boxing hall of fame.

Joe Louis V Billy Conn. Conn had won 3 bouts all on points since his loss to Louis. As he had put up an impressive performance in his first loss to Louis I rate him 7/10.

Joe Louis V Tami Mauriello. Mauriello had twice lost points decisions for the Light Heavyweight title. Coming into the Louis bout he was on a KO streak of 11 and had beaten the then 25 – 0 Bruce woodcock in his previous bout. At this stage of his career I rate him 7/10.

Joe Louis V Jersey Joe Walcott. Walcott had lost two of his previous 5 bouts before challenging Louis and had previously been stopped on 3 occasions. I rate him 3/10.

Joe Louis V Jersey Joe Walcott. In his previous bout Walcott had lost a split decision to Louis. This I would put down to Louis being past his peak and not down to Walcott being a good challenger. I rate him 5/10.

After the second Walcott bout Louis announced his retirement. He came back to challenge Ezzard Charles but was a long way past his peak by then. I rate Charles 7/10.

Over the course of 22 world title bouts Calzaghes opponents had an average score of 5 out of 10. Giving him a score of 110.

Over 27 world title bouts Louis opponents had an average score of approximately 3.5 out of 10. Giving him a total of 100. 10 less than Joe Calzaghe even though he had 5 more World title bouts.

Let me guess, you're from the UK.

Unbiased? You just rated Jeff Lacy 10/10.. nice try.

Originally Posted by RP33

Let me guess, you're from the UK.

Unbiased? You just rated Jeff Lacy 10/10.. nice try.

As stated all boxers are ranked pre fight. There is no retrospective rating. Coming into the Calzaghe bout Lacey was the favourite and unbeaten. If you read all the thread you will see I gave Max Schmeling 10/10. My opionions are unbiased. If you disagree do your own ratings or shut up.

Originally Posted by SEANIE

Originally Posted by RP33

Let me guess, you're from the UK.

Unbiased? You just rated Jeff Lacy 10/10.. nice try.

As stated all boxers are ranked pre fight. There is no retrospective rating. Coming into the Calzaghe bout Lacey was the favourite and unbeaten. If you read all the thread you will see I gave Max Schmeling 10/10. My opionions are unbiased. If you disagree do your own ratings or shut up.

ok i disagree and here's my ratings

great champions

#1 Sugar Ray Robinson
#2 Joe Louis
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#1,300 Joe Calzaghe

Originally Posted by SEANIE

Originally Posted by RP33

Let me guess, you're from the UK.

Unbiased? You just rated Jeff Lacy 10/10.. nice try.

As stated all boxers are ranked pre fight. There is no retrospective rating. Coming into the Calzaghe bout Lacey was the favourite and unbeaten. If you read all the thread you will see I gave Max Schmeling 10/10. My opionions are unbiased. If you disagree do your own ratings or shut up.

Sorry, i didn't see the ranked pre-fight part. Which makes your posting that much more erroneous. You're rating fighters based on hype? How valuable..

"If you disagree do your own ratings or shut up".. So you made this post assuming that everyone is going to agree with you? and/or just ignore your post if they disagree? Again, nice work. You posted on a public boxing forum for a reason, to get your opinion out there.

If you don't want others opinions on what you're saying, go create a private blog where no one can respond.

You gotta admit, Seanie... as scientific as you're trying to make this out to be (and you deserve some credit for doing some research), your ratings of both fighters' opponents is extremely subjective. So the basis for your whole comparison is somewhat flawed.

One difference is that Joe Louis cleared out the division and was undisputed Champ for 25 defenses.

Calzaghe defended a piece of crap alphabet title in Europe for 10 years and only became an undisputed champion in the last few bouts of his career.

They were both great champs.

I think alot of your statements below are subjective.....

LMAO!! That was some of the best comedy scriptwriting I've read in a long time (Tocker Pudwill 5/10, Lacy 10/10... classic lines), this man is the new Larry David

NO! He can prove it with science!

I think Seanie and Saddoboxer, attended the same special education classes.

This post reeked of fish-bait the moment I read it.
YOu wont get ME to bite the bait, Seanie boy.

Originally Posted by Diane

I think Seanie and Saddoboxer, attended the same special education classes.

LOL!.. to be completely honest, we should have a humurous thread area on the board.. any threads like these can be moved to that area. Visit it on a rainy day.