Thread: Why does Holyfield, Jones, Toney, Mosley gets a Pass?

Now let me state, in no way I'm defending Manny Pac, he deserves to get all of the scrutiny and scorn for not submitting to the random blood test for PEDs. The fight with Mayweather is too important for legacies to pass up on the random blood testing.

But it also seems to me that Holyfield, Jones, Mosley, Toney gets a pass by many boxing fans. The level of scrutiny isn't there for them imo. All of them have been caught or link to PEDs. But it seems that they also have many apologists and it also seems that their legacies aren't questioned. So shouldn't the level of scrutiny and criticism be applied across the board?

Holyfield, as I have stated is my favorite HW in modern times, but it doesn't mean that I didn't have serious questions about PED usage that was link to him in years past. Especially the whole Evan Fields debacle that happened a few years ago.

For instance in another thread, there was an apologist for Shane Mosley saying he only used PEDs for a few fights, it's no big deal, etc.
So why do some guys gets a pass?

It's a valid point you make man. And it goes to the heart of the need for international random drug screens.

And popular fighters for better or worse will usually get a pass. If you are a fan of someone it's difficult for most people to speak negatively about them. Pacquiao will get the same pass as time goes on.

Their cases are important and you can make good arguments that they got away with things far too easily. Toney is the one that has dissapointed me most because I am such an admirer of his skills and he got caught twice. Of course it deserves criticism. With Holyfield, Jones and Mosley, their stories are a fair while back and before I really got into following boxing as closely as I do now. I know that they have all been involved in a lot of bad rep involving PED's, but I am somewhat distanced from it all. So in my case it is simply a matter of perspective.

With this fight, it is right here and now and I am well aware of everything going on. We all know it's a potentially huge fight between two fighters thought to be in their prime. It's getting this attention because it's what we have all been looking forward to. It doesn't give any of the listed fighters a pass, it's just that we are in the here and now discussing a situation that is in all our minds.

Mosely doesnt get a pass when it comes to a lot of fans, he constantly gets mentioned when it comes to drugs. Holyfield, Toney, and Jones were all shot or atleast very old by the time they were mentioned regarding drugs, and not P4P #1 like Pac.

who gets a harder time then ? they are the rule rather than the exception, like vargas.... it gets forgotten about slightly over time, some people will bring it up now and then but mostly once the intial scandel dies down its ok, same would maybe happen with pac although the way he has been running through people as of late it could damage the fans perception of him a bit more

I think its because Pacquiao is so much bigger in terms of star power than many of them. In addition because it goes against Pacquiao nature a lot more than the rest of these guys except maybe Mosley who also got a lot more criticism than Jones/Toney/Holyfield. Also because we don't know for sure if he has or has not taken them. I think the mystery always makes a story bigger.

Originally Posted by generalbulldog

Now let me state, in no way I'm defending Manny Pac, he deserves to get all of the scrutiny and scorn for not submitting to the random blood test for PEDs. The fight with Mayweather is too important for legacies to pass up on the random blood testing.

But it also seems to me that Holyfield, Jones, Mosley, Toney gets a pass by many boxing fans. The level of scrutiny isn't there for them imo. All of them have been caught or link to PEDs. But it seems that they also have many apologists and it also seems that their legacies aren't questioned. So shouldn't the level of scrutiny and criticism be applied across the board?

Holyfield, as I have stated is my favorite HW in modern times, but it doesn't mean that I didn't have serious questions about PED usage that was link to him in years past. Especially the whole Evan Fields debacle that happened a few years ago.

For instance in another thread, there was an apologist for Shane Mosley saying he only used PEDs for a few fights, it's no big deal, etc.
So why do some guys gets a pass?

Honestly, it's because with boxing, more than some sports, we look back on the great ones with a certain type of nostalgia. Holyfield was found out by Sports Illustrated at a roider, RJJ supposedly failed that drug test in 2000 that was covered up I think, Toney has outright failed drug tests, and Mosley was implicated with the BALCO trial. All these guys have been in the steroid discussion, yet we pretty much don't look at them as cheats because we remember there old in-ring performances when thinking about them. Boxing more than any other sport, you remember individual performances. Plus, outta sight outta mind, these guys (except Mosley) really aren't at the forefront of the sport anymore so we don't hear much about them anymore so we really don't think about them. And when we do think about them, we think about great fights they were involved in.

Originally Posted by generalbulldog

Now let me state, in no way I'm defending Manny Pac, he deserves to get all of the scrutiny and scorn for not submitting to the random blood test for PEDs. The fight with Mayweather is too important for legacies to pass up on the random blood testing.

But it also seems to me that Holyfield, Jones, Mosley, Toney gets a pass by many boxing fans. The level of scrutiny isn't there for them imo. All of them have been caught or link to PEDs. But it seems that they also have many apologists and it also seems that their legacies aren't questioned. So shouldn't the level of scrutiny and criticism be applied across the board?

Holyfield, as I have stated is my favorite HW in modern times, but it doesn't mean that I didn't have serious questions about PED usage that was link to him in years past. Especially the whole Evan Fields debacle that happened a few years ago.

For instance in another thread, there was an apologist for Shane Mosley saying he only used PEDs for a few fights, it's no big deal, etc.
So why do some guys gets a pass?

because that is the past, this is now, this is the talking point... + they are all American and its no secret the Americans are used to their best jabbing up. I think it would be more of a shock for them if they didn't...

Originally Posted by Preme

Originally Posted by generalbulldog

Now let me state, in no way I'm defending Manny Pac, he deserves to get all of the scrutiny and scorn for not submitting to the random blood test for PEDs. The fight with Mayweather is too important for legacies to pass up on the random blood testing.

But it also seems to me that Holyfield, Jones, Mosley, Toney gets a pass by many boxing fans. The level of scrutiny isn't there for them imo. All of them have been caught or link to PEDs. But it seems that they also have many apologists and it also seems that their legacies aren't questioned. So shouldn't the level of scrutiny and criticism be applied across the board?

Holyfield, as I have stated is my favorite HW in modern times, but it doesn't mean that I didn't have serious questions about PED usage that was link to him in years past. Especially the whole Evan Fields debacle that happened a few years ago.

For instance in another thread, there was an apologist for Shane Mosley saying he only used PEDs for a few fights, it's no big deal, etc.
So why do some guys gets a pass?

because that is the past, this is now, this is the talking point... + they are all American and its no secret the Americans are used to their best jabbing up. I think it would be more of a shock for them if they didn't...

why is this man on a boxing forum? you probably haven't watched a fight since calzaghe-jones. fuck off.

Originally Posted by sumkalambay

Originally Posted by Preme

Originally Posted by generalbulldog

Now let me state, in no way I'm defending Manny Pac, he deserves to get all of the scrutiny and scorn for not submitting to the random blood test for PEDs. The fight with Mayweather is too important for legacies to pass up on the random blood testing.

But it also seems to me that Holyfield, Jones, Mosley, Toney gets a pass by many boxing fans. The level of scrutiny isn't there for them imo. All of them have been caught or link to PEDs. But it seems that they also have many apologists and it also seems that their legacies aren't questioned. So shouldn't the level of scrutiny and criticism be applied across the board?

Holyfield, as I have stated is my favorite HW in modern times, but it doesn't mean that I didn't have serious questions about PED usage that was link to him in years past. Especially the whole Evan Fields debacle that happened a few years ago.

For instance in another thread, there was an apologist for Shane Mosley saying he only used PEDs for a few fights, it's no big deal, etc.
So why do some guys gets a pass?

because that is the past, this is now, this is the talking point... + they are all American and its no secret the Americans are used to their best jabbing up. I think it would be more of a shock for them if they didn't...

why is this man on a boxing forum? you probably haven't watched a fight since calzaghe-jones. fuck off.

I think Preme's initial point was on the money. You don't think you are being a bit harsh telling someone to fuck off?

What he says is absolutely false.

Originally Posted by sumkalambay

What he says is absolutely false.

Is it not true that the Paquiao refusal to take a random drug test is the big talking point in boxing today?

Holyfield NEVER tested positive for anything, the case against him was rumour based on a name similar to his that came from his address. Fair enough it sounds suspect but not once did he test positive.

As for Jones his positve test was a result of drugs he was supposedly taking for a sinus infection and although that also sounds strange, when the authorities checked out the drugs Jones gave them to check out, everything matched up and his name was cleared!

Mosley and Toney though were caught cheating red handed and I agree are sometimes given an easy ride by boxing fans, some of which are too quick IMO to jump on Pac's back. At the end of the day he has not tested positive for anything and I like to give the benefit of any doubt to those who either have a valid argument or have not been PROVEN to have taken anything.