Thread: Mike Tyson. Underrated or Overrated?

Seems like there are 2 camps when it comes to evaluating Mike Tyson, the ones who thought he was overrated and the ones who thought he was underrated.

When your biggest wins are against an 38 year old Holmes, an blown up LHW in Spinks (who beat an 36 year old Holmes and got a gift decision in the 2nd fight), weak contenders/paper champions like Seldon, Bruno, Biggs, Williams, Marvis Frazier, Berbick, then that's a pretty weak resume. He looked spectacular fighting weak contenders and knocking them out.

And 1 funny thing, Mike Tyson fans claim Mike was in his prime in the late 80s, it's really funny that Mike was past his prime when Buster Douglass beats him in 1990. I keep hearing that.

So can anyone tell me how can a 23 year old undefeated, supposedly invincible HW champion without that much wear and tear be past his prime in the Douglas fight?

Yeah he was exciting knocking out tomato cans, bums, old ass Larry Holmes, blown up LHW in Spinks, etc. But put me in the overrated camp.

And no way does he even beat an Ali if both were in their prime. I keep hearing that. Ali would just have made fun of his voice and then proceed to give him a beating in the ring.

Tyson was a bit of both.

For the period when he good, he was very good. The Douglas loss was not about being beyond his prime, but if you don't train for a fight then what can you do. He came back pretty well with Ruddock both times, but it was 3 years in jail that really ended Tyson.

For that brief period I really think that he was a match for any heavyweight in the history of the sport. He had great skills in terms of movement, output and he would be there until you were stopped or outworked.

Tyson these days is possibly somewhat underrated.

They overall in ring package of Tyson is definitely underrated when he is spoke about today but during his reign he was greatly over rated mainly due to the fact he had such weak competition during his prime era of the mid to late 1980's.

As a fighter though Mike really had it all, a good chin, great speed and punching technique, defense and heart. When put into a package Mike was a phenom....

I think so much fear was put into his opp back then because no one had actually seen a fighter like him.

Sadly enough in his later years the personal decline and the fact he really lost interest in the sport and boxed more so for money and fact he knew nothing else to do causing shoddy performances and losses to men that in his prime he would have eaten alive inside of 6 rounds to be generous....

If he could have stayed on track a few years longer and out of prison we would have witnessed the true Tyson and what he was really made of because he could have taken part in fights with Bowe and Holyfield when he was at his best..

We would have been able to gage his true over all status more accurately

Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

They overall in ring package of Tyson is definitely underrated when he is spoke about today but during his reign he was greatly over rated mainly due to the fact he had such weak competition during his prime era of the mid to late 1980's.

As a fighter though Mike really had it all, a good chin, great speed and punching technique, defense and heart. When put into a package Mike was a phenom....

I think so much fear was put into his opp back then because no one had actually seen a fighter like him.

Sadly enough in his later years the personal decline and the fact he really lost interest in the sport and boxed more so for money and fact he knew nothing else to do causing shoddy performances and losses to men that in his prime he would have eaten alive inside of 6 rounds to be generous....

If he could have stayed on track a few years longer and out of prison we would have witnessed the true Tyson and what he was really made of because he could have taken part in fights with Bowe and Holyfield when he was at his best..

We would have been able to gage his true over all status more accurately

Really good realistic point there mate,if he did'nt get too involved with bad situations and kept on the straight and narrow,or if Cus was still alive when he broke onto the professional ranks he would have been unstoppable.There's no doubt Tyson had the whole package in the Heavyweight division,okay we know he did'nt have height,but what he lacked in height he gained in speed and raw power.Tyson was really exciting and dangerous to any heavyweight.Imgaine Tyson in his prime on the scen of the Heavy weights this present day and age??He would just stream role the lot of them.Tyson is a boxer we all loved watching weather you liked him or not you still watched him due to the unexpected of his nature inside and outside of the ring.Tyson was awseome,the way he just smash his opponants with no care and justice was just awesome,pure animal!!!

He is generally over rated by younger or new fans.

Although Tyson is tough to rate. He absolutely destroyed mediocre opposition.

There is sort of the same problem with Rocky Marciano- being dominant in a weak era.

The only difference between Rocky and Tyson are that Tyson kept fighting after his decline, where as Rocky quit before it.

Imagine if Tyson retired in 1989 at 37-0

There is always the woulda coulda shoulda thing with Tyson, Cus this and Kevin Rooney that to prison to wrong people in his life blah blah blah. Every fighter has those instances to Bowe and his diet to to Ali and his exile etc. Every person in Saddo has those same scenarios in their life that coulda defined them but they took different paths. Bottom line; I think he was a good heavyweight champion, but not great. He had intimidation going for him just like certain fighters of today have before they get beat, Sam Peter comes to mind and when they find opponents that can overcome that aura and fight back this is when it matters most and Tyson never showed that he had what it took to dig deep for greatness but he sure new how to sell it like he did.

It's a difficult one to call regarding Mike Tyson. There's no doubt that those first 5 years where impressive. I don't think I've ever seen a HW fight with the aggression and ferocity that Mike did. I always feel that longevity plays a big part when looking back on someone's career though and sadly, for whatever reasons, be it the death of Cus, Don King, or maybe just Mike not being able to handle all the attention and pressure that comes with being the youngest HW ever, he derailed.

Personally I would put Lewis ahead of Tyson in the all time greats purely for his longevity. Tyson just pushed the self destruction button and he pushed it fairly early into his career. For me its a question of what might have been. Once he lost that aura of invincibility he just became another HW.

Originally Posted by jon09

There is always the woulda coulda shoulda thing with Tyson, Cus this and Kevin Rooney that to prison to wrong people in his life blah blah blah. Every fighter has those instances to Bowe and his diet to to Ali and his exile etc. Every person in Saddo has those same scenarios in their life that coulda defined them but they took different paths. Bottom line; I think he was a good heavyweight champion, but not great. He had intimidation going for him just like certain fighters of today have before they get beat, Sam Peter comes to mind and when they find opponents that can overcome that aura and fight back this is when it matters most and Tyson never showed that he had what it took to dig deep for greatness but he sure new how to sell it like he did.

Exactly, this is how I feel. Everyone has some tough scenario that you have to overcome, Tyson was never able to overcome it. I'm not saying Tyson wasn't skilled because he was, but the guy was not mentally strong. Everyone said he made a mistake letting Rooney go, but whose fault was that? If it's not broken why change it? People said he was manipulated by Don King and Robin Givens, but it's funny for a street kid like Tyson he wasn't savvy enough to know it? Come on.

Yes Mike Tyson lost his prime years in prison and never really entered it, but what about Ali? Ali never entered his prime years either and was close to 29 when he returned to the ring and was no where close to the physical specimen that he was in the 60s, but he sure accomplish a lot didnt' he?

In a way I do feel sorry for Tyson. His life story is almost a mirror image of Ali's but with an evil element to it. Both were dominant HW champs, great physical specimens, exciting inside the ring, both were controversial out of it, both were convicted of crimes and lost their prime years (Ali for draft refusal and Tyson for Rape), but Ali's story was more of triumph, while Tyson was of failure inside and outside the ring.

Originally Posted by jon09

There is always the woulda coulda shoulda thing with Tyson, Cus this and Kevin Rooney that to prison to wrong people in his life blah blah blah. Every fighter has those instances to Bowe and his diet to to Ali and his exile etc. Every person in Saddo has those same scenarios in their life that coulda defined them but they took different paths. Bottom line; I think he was a good heavyweight champion, but not great. He had intimidation going for him just like certain fighters of today have before they get beat, Sam Peter comes to mind and when they find opponents that can overcome that aura and fight back this is when it matters most and Tyson never showed that he had what it took to dig deep for greatness but he sure new how to sell it like he did.

My take on the intimidation factor with Tyson is that I find people often underrate that characteristic of his game. Almost as though it detracts from his greatness or boxing skills. I don't think it should. When you talk about the fact that he faced mediocre competition, his competition was still made up of professional fighters--most of who have been fighting most of their lives. Full of machismo and violence, these men were turned to little girls when they faced or even discussed Tyson. In and out of the ring. Some tried to talk the talk but it was so obvious they didn't believe the words coming out of their mouths. But, God bless them, they were trying to convince US and themselves they weren't scared. I grew up in the late 70s and 80s, but I've never seen a boxer literally and convincingly strike fear in the heart of opponents. Opponents who up until that point in their lives, probably would tell you that they were not scared of any man. lmao. You can't underrate Tyson's intimidation factor. We have a lot of trash talkers these days, but no one that I can think of actually scares opponents. It was really part of Tyson's package and a significant part of what made him great. If he didn't back it up, it would have been just a bunch of BS. To me downplaying the indimidation factor in a discussion of Tyson's greatness is like saying that George Foreman wasn't a great because all he could do was just hit hard. If a boxer has skills/characteristics that help him win/destroy opponents --it shouldn't be counted against him because it doesn't fit into the pretty box of what a great boxer must posses. For the relatively short time when Tyson was at his prime, IMO he was great. It was clear when he was done and he finally even told US as fans that he just didn't have boxing in his heart anymore. The need for money and fans who wanted him to keep going (in hopes of seeing the old Iron Mike), extended his career.

Originally Posted by Lance Uppercut

He is generally over rated by younger or new fans.

Although Tyson is tough to rate. He absolutely destroyed mediocre opposition.

There is sort of the same problem with Rocky Marciano- being dominant in a weak era.

The only difference between Rocky and Tyson are that Tyson kept fighting after his decline, where as Rocky quit before it.

Imagine if Tyson retired in 1989 at 37-0

Well said and though many will disagree with your comparison between him and Marciano it is a good one...

Both fought their primes in weak eras of great former champions on the decline and a mediocre division at best they were surrounded by....Hard to judge exactly what each man had because there was nothing to really test them to the fullest..

Though like you said Marciano retired before he was slipping Tyson stayed around hurting his legacy

I think a bit of both, i think Mike Tyson fans overrate how good he could do vs ATG fighters. And overrate his ability because he looked unbeatable against 2nd tier fighters.

But he's also underrated in other ways like his toughness for example, i think Mike Tyson's chin is the most underrated attribute of his. He took hammering shots off a huge puncher like Razor Ruddock, without showing any real ill effects.

But in the end he did clear out the Heavyweight division, and he did bring excitement to the Heavyweight division when it really needed it.

And whether you love him or hate him, i think he did do alot for the sport and he will never be forgotten.

when tyson was on his role he was rated number 1 in the world at his weight. what more can i say he was a world champ and ranked number 1.

Seems like there are 2 camps when it comes to evaluating Mike Tyson, the ones who thought he was overrated and the ones who thought he was underrated.

I think today he is underated. Not even Lennox Lewis who was the last dominant champion dominated comparable or worse competition better

When your biggest wins are against an 38 year old Holmes, an blown up LHW in Spinks (who beat an 36 year old Holmes and got a gift decision in the 2nd fight), weak contenders/paper champions like Seldon, Bruno, Biggs, Williams, Marvis Frazier, Berbick, then that's a pretty weak resume. He looked spectacular fighting weak contenders and knocking them out.

Your forgetting, Tucker, Smith, Tubbs, Ruddock, and Thomas who were all solid contenders. Add those to the list and you have a pretty solid resume for Tyson.

And 1 funny thing, Mike Tyson fans claim Mike was in his prime in the late 80s, it's really funny that Mike was past his prime when Buster Douglass beats him in 1990. I keep hearing that.

Tyson was a young man. He was certainly still in his prime, although after the Spinks fight, getting away from training and away from the people that made him successful was certainly the beginning of the end for Tyson which ultimately put him behind bars.

So can anyone tell me how can a 23 year old undefeated, supposedly invincible HW champion without that much wear and tear be past his prime in the Douglas fight?

He wasnt, but he wasnt doing the things that made him great anymore.

Yeah he was exciting knocking out tomato cans, bums, old ass Larry Holmes, blown up LHW in Spinks, etc. But put me in the overrated camp.

I think this is a little ridiculous

And no way does he even beat an Ali if both were in their prime. I keep hearing that. Ali would just have made fun of his voice and then proceed to give him a beating in the ring.

He would have given Ali hell at his best and even Ali has acknowledged it.