Thread: I will not lie. I got teary eyed from this.

You can see the sadness in that poor cats face. Trying to revive his friend.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWVK60Az5xk

Thats really sad, but uplifting too.
Animals are freer more giving than most of us these days,we could learn from them sometimes.

Dean, I think you'll find that HTH has been pining ater you in the Lets Get it On Board like for a long lost lover...

Without trying to sound really heartless it's only sad because you are projecting human emotions onto them.

The cat didn't even the know other cat was dead, not really. It obviously knew it wasn't behaving normally and so tried to interact with it, and then just sat down and went to sleep.

Only very few animals have been shown to grieve. Chimpanzees and elephants are the only animals that demonstrate signs of being capable of it and even in most chimps it's very short lived.

That cat really wasn't that bothered.

There are some great books on animals by Temple Grandin, an animal behaviour professor who also suffers from autism. She is known as the woman who thinks like a cow and her books are very interesting and instructive in seperating how an animal really thinks from how we think they think.

Originally Posted by Bilbo

Without trying to sound really heartless it's only sad because you are projecting human emotions onto them.

The cat didn't even the know other cat was dead, not really. It obviously knew it wasn't behaving normally and so tried to interact with it, and then just sat down and went to sleep.

Only very few animals have been shown to grieve. Chimpanzees and elephants are the only animals that demonstrate signs of being capable of it and even in most chimps it's very short lived.

That cat really wasn't that bothered.

There are some great books on animals by Temple Grandin, an animal behaviour professor who also suffers from autism. She is known as the woman who thinks like a cow and her books are very interesting and instructive in seperating how an animal really thinks from how we think they think.

I've watched a couple of documentaries about elephants who are VERY effected by the sort of emotions humans have... It's quite extraordinary..

One thing that got me down about the video though, is that typical of human nature (or modern human nature), they see a video opportunity, instead of an opportunity to help an animal..

Perhaps it was clear the other cat was completely dead.. Perhaps it had been there a while.. Perhaps we don't know the whole story.... But if I was going to stop and pay that much attention to it, I would try taking the f'n thing to the Vet.. Then you see another couple of people standing there and they could have taken it to the vet....
The guy who comes along at the end probably saw from far away, 'hmmm, what are those people looking at'. Then walks over and is like "You sick bastards just watching, didn't any of you think of picking the thing up and taking it to the Vet??

Kinda like on funniest home video's when parents are filming their kids picking up and playing with dog shit instead of teaching them it's wrong, just because the video will be funny.. Or there are a lot worse examples than that.. Like kids clearly about to fall on their heads or doing something dangerous, but if we can laugh about it later on camera, why would we step in and prevent it...

I'm probably going overboard here in this case, but taking this example to an extreme, it's this type of human behavior that makes me sick..

Originally Posted by Bilbo

Without trying to sound really heartless it's only sad because you are projecting human emotions onto them.

The cat didn't even the know other cat was dead, not really. It obviously knew it wasn't behaving normally and so tried to interact with it, and then just sat down and went to sleep.

Only very few animals have been shown to grieve. Chimpanzees and elephants are the only animals that demonstrate signs of being capable of it and even in most chimps it's very short lived.

That cat really wasn't that bothered.

There are some great books on animals by Temple Grandin, an animal behaviour professor who also suffers from autism. She is known as the woman who thinks like a cow and her books are very interesting and instructive in seperating how an animal really thinks from how we think they think.

The movie Temple Grandin is really good and is about her autism and how she develops a humane way to slaughter cattle. She is actually speaking at a beef expo out west and I wish it was closer because I would go listen to her talk.



GOOD TO SEE YOU BACK CATNEWSPAPERMAN!

Ive not seen that,as far as fully mounting another cat and digging all fours into them so aggresivly.No one knows the animal Psyche and what in reality they are capable of "feeling".Its the actions that lead to conclusion and can be instinct,mimicking observed behavior or an actual thought process like....yes...you and I have,to one lesser degree or another.Some days,who's the real animal after all.I very much believe animals have a grieving process and mourn.Ive seen the calmest of dogs take protective postures over deceased pets in family...saw one actually drag another traumatized and deceased animal,frantically circle wailing and nudging him,almost to say get the f up.On the other hand Ive seen some just simply lay down and stare,whimpering and returning to owner...back and forth....eventually walking away.Shit some people see others in clear despair,passed out unconscious and in my own neighborhood shot dead...people go on like its just another day,walk 'around' the corpse.That cat has more compassion...clearly.

Originally Posted by Owned by Youngblood

Ive not seen that,as far as fully mounting another cat and digging all fours into them so aggresivly.No one knows the animal Psyche and what in reality they are capable of "feeling".Its the actions that lead to conclusion and can be instinct,mimicking observed behavior or an actual thought process like....yes...you and I have,to one lesser degree or another.Some days,who's the real animal after all.I very much believe animals have a grieving process and mourn.Ive seen the calmest of dogs take protective postures over deceased pets in family...saw one actually drag another traumatized and deceased animal,frantically circle wailing and nudging him,almost to say get the f up.On the other hand Ive seen some just simply lay down and stare,whimpering and returning to owner...back and forth....eventually walking away.Shit some people see others in clear despair,passed out unconscious and in my own neighborhood shot dead...people go on like its just another day,walk 'around' the corpse.That cat has more compassion...clearly.

Yeah sadly you probably have a good point there., the inability to feel empathy and loss extends to at least some humans for sure.

For me though, I had to pour cold water on a sentimental video you understand, I highly doubt a cat is even capable of knowing what death is.

Originally Posted by boozeboxer

Originally Posted by Bilbo

Without trying to sound really heartless it's only sad because you are projecting human emotions onto them.

The cat didn't even the know other cat was dead, not really. It obviously knew it wasn't behaving normally and so tried to interact with it, and then just sat down and went to sleep.

Only very few animals have been shown to grieve. Chimpanzees and elephants are the only animals that demonstrate signs of being capable of it and even in most chimps it's very short lived.

That cat really wasn't that bothered.

There are some great books on animals by Temple Grandin, an animal behaviour professor who also suffers from autism. She is known as the woman who thinks like a cow and her books are very interesting and instructive in seperating how an animal really thinks from how we think they think.

The movie Temple Grandin is really good and is about her autism and how she develops a humane way to slaughter cattle. She is actually speaking at a beef expo out west and I wish it was closer because I would go listen to her talk.



GOOD TO SEE YOU BACK CATNEWSPAPERMAN!

Cool man I didn't know she had made a film, I only know her from her books The Woman Who Thinks Like a Cow and How to Make Animals Happy. She does talk about her work with cattle in them and chickens too, working for McDonalds to humanise their process.

I actually found her stuff really fascninating and will definitely try and track that movie down!

Originally Posted by Bilbo

Originally Posted by Owned by Youngblood

Ive not seen that,as far as fully mounting another cat and digging all fours into them so aggresivly.No one knows the animal Psyche and what in reality they are capable of "feeling".Its the actions that lead to conclusion and can be instinct,mimicking observed behavior or an actual thought process like....yes...you and I have,to one lesser degree or another.Some days,who's the real animal after all.I very much believe animals have a grieving process and mourn.Ive seen the calmest of dogs take protective postures over deceased pets in family...saw one actually drag another traumatized and deceased animal,frantically circle wailing and nudging him,almost to say get the f up.On the other hand Ive seen some just simply lay down and stare,whimpering and returning to owner...back and forth....eventually walking away.Shit some people see others in clear despair,passed out unconscious and in my own neighborhood shot dead...people go on like its just another day,walk 'around' the corpse.That cat has more compassion...clearly.

Yeah sadly you probably have a good point there., the inability to feel empathy and loss extends to at least some humans for sure.

For me though, I had to pour cold water on a sentimental video you understand, I highly doubt a cat is even capable of knowing what death is.

No doubt.You pouring cold water I would expect nothing less ha.Yeh we tend to make animals immediate extensions of our own emotions and will never know.Agree the sappy music...but Im just a cynical cuss and like Diz said the self absorbed shooter of vid.In the end,media age we do tend to make it all about us.

Originally Posted by Owned by Youngblood

Originally Posted by Bilbo

Originally Posted by Owned by Youngblood

Ive not seen that,as far as fully mounting another cat and digging all fours into them so aggresivly.No one knows the animal Psyche and what in reality they are capable of "feeling".Its the actions that lead to conclusion and can be instinct,mimicking observed behavior or an actual thought process like....yes...you and I have,to one lesser degree or another.Some days,who's the real animal after all.I very much believe animals have a grieving process and mourn.Ive seen the calmest of dogs take protective postures over deceased pets in family...saw one actually drag another traumatized and deceased animal,frantically circle wailing and nudging him,almost to say get the f up.On the other hand Ive seen some just simply lay down and stare,whimpering and returning to owner...back and forth....eventually walking away.Shit some people see others in clear despair,passed out unconscious and in my own neighborhood shot dead...people go on like its just another day,walk 'around' the corpse.That cat has more compassion...clearly.

Yeah sadly you probably have a good point there., the inability to feel empathy and loss extends to at least some humans for sure.

For me though, I had to pour cold water on a sentimental video you understand, I highly doubt a cat is even capable of knowing what death is.

No doubt.You pouring cold water I would expect nothing less ha.Yeh we tend to make animals immediate extensions of our own emotions and will never know.Agree the sappy music...but Im just a cynical cuss and like Diz said the self absorbed shooter of vid.In the end,media age we do tend to make it all about us.

Cats and dogs like having fun. wonder why? Play is a trigger to feeling emotional joy.
If you have a pet specially a dog, you will know without doubt they love you.
My conclusion is that if they love you then they must also love other pets they live with.
Either that or they are great at mirroring our own feelings.
I dont see that as the case though, because if Im angry they are not angry they bolt.
If im sad they come and stare into my eyes or paw at me.
They have definite feelings they react to.
Seems right that they feel love and compassion towards others because you can eventually get natural enemies lying down at peace together and eating playing and sleeping together.
Its also not true that they only have a few seconds attention span,not all of them but some of them can work out whats going on and they dont forget.
Some dogs save their owners in some situations and all off their own backs with no training.

Originally Posted by Bilbo

Originally Posted by Owned by Youngblood

Ive not seen that,as far as fully mounting another cat and digging all fours into them so aggresivly.No one knows the animal Psyche and what in reality they are capable of "feeling".Its the actions that lead to conclusion and can be instinct,mimicking observed behavior or an actual thought process like....yes...you and I have,to one lesser degree or another.Some days,who's the real animal after all.I very much believe animals have a grieving process and mourn.Ive seen the calmest of dogs take protective postures over deceased pets in family...saw one actually drag another traumatized and deceased animal,frantically circle wailing and nudging him,almost to say get the f up.On the other hand Ive seen some just simply lay down and stare,whimpering and returning to owner...back and forth....eventually walking away.Shit some people see others in clear despair,passed out unconscious and in my own neighborhood shot dead...people go on like its just another day,walk 'around' the corpse.That cat has more compassion...clearly.

Yeah sadly you probably have a good point there., the inability to feel empathy and loss extends to at least some humans for sure.

For me though, I had to pour cold water on a sentimental video you understand, I highly doubt a cat is even capable of knowing what death is.

That is arrogance on our part to assume we are the only creatures capable of complex emotions. I have seen many animals display happiness, distress, you name it. Just because they cannot communicate their thought process in a way that we can understand, does not mean it does not exist, but only proves ignorance on our part. Here is an example. I once had a budgie. He was a great guy and could actually pick up and speak complete sentences. That was very odd for a budgie but was still just mimicking. The thing about him though was he had a temper. If you did something to piss him off, you learned very soon that he would get payback. Not immediately either. The normally happy bird would sit on his perch and just stare perfectly silent. If my girlfriend at the time then let him out of his cage to let him exercise his wings, I would have to keep my eyes open because he could fly so quick, right up under my nose and tear at the cartilage in an instant. It was painful as hell and half the time hard enough to make me bleed, but he would become happy again and start yapping. This could even be the next day. That was a tiny budgie holding a grudge.

Originally Posted by Deanrw

Originally Posted by Bilbo

Originally Posted by Owned by Youngblood

Ive not seen that,as far as fully mounting another cat and digging all fours into them so aggresivly.No one knows the animal Psyche and what in reality they are capable of "feeling".Its the actions that lead to conclusion and can be instinct,mimicking observed behavior or an actual thought process like....yes...you and I have,to one lesser degree or another.Some days,who's the real animal after all.I very much believe animals have a grieving process and mourn.Ive seen the calmest of dogs take protective postures over deceased pets in family...saw one actually drag another traumatized and deceased animal,frantically circle wailing and nudging him,almost to say get the f up.On the other hand Ive seen some just simply lay down and stare,whimpering and returning to owner...back and forth....eventually walking away.Shit some people see others in clear despair,passed out unconscious and in my own neighborhood shot dead...people go on like its just another day,walk 'around' the corpse.That cat has more compassion...clearly.

Yeah sadly you probably have a good point there., the inability to feel empathy and loss extends to at least some humans for sure.

For me though, I had to pour cold water on a sentimental video you understand, I highly doubt a cat is even capable of knowing what death is.

That is arrogance on our part to assume we are the only creatures capable of complex emotions. I have seen many animals display happiness, distress, you name it. Just because they cannot communicate their thought process in a way that we can understand, does not mean it does not exist, but only proves ignorance on our part. Here is an example. I once had a budgie. He was a great guy and could actually pick up and speak complete sentences. That was very odd for a budgie but was still just mimicking. The thing about him though was he had a temper. If you did something to piss him off, you learned very soon that he would get payback. Not immediately either. The normally happy bird would sit on his perch and just stare perfectly silent. If my girlfriend at the time then let him out of his cage to let him exercise his wings, I would have to keep my eyes open because he could fly so quick, right up under my nose and tear at the cartilage in an instant. It was painful as hell and half the time hard enough to make me bleed, but he would become happy again and start yapping. This could even be the next day. That was a tiny budgie holding a grudge.

haha I don't know if that was a joke or not but it made me laugh.

I think if animals were capable of holding grudges and forming plans of revenge we'd be having mayhem on the farms and zoo's across the world.

Animals feel basic emotions like fear, arousal, hunger etc.

I don't think budgies are harbouring resentments and dreaming of payback.....sorry lol

Originally Posted by Bilbo

Originally Posted by Deanrw

Originally Posted by Bilbo

Originally Posted by Owned by Youngblood

Ive not seen that,as far as fully mounting another cat and digging all fours into them so aggresivly.No one knows the animal Psyche and what in reality they are capable of "feeling".Its the actions that lead to conclusion and can be instinct,mimicking observed behavior or an actual thought process like....yes...you and I have,to one lesser degree or another.Some days,who's the real animal after all.I very much believe animals have a grieving process and mourn.Ive seen the calmest of dogs take protective postures over deceased pets in family...saw one actually drag another traumatized and deceased animal,frantically circle wailing and nudging him,almost to say get the f up.On the other hand Ive seen some just simply lay down and stare,whimpering and returning to owner...back and forth....eventually walking away.Shit some people see others in clear despair,passed out unconscious and in my own neighborhood shot dead...people go on like its just another day,walk 'around' the corpse.That cat has more compassion...clearly.

Yeah sadly you probably have a good point there., the inability to feel empathy and loss extends to at least some humans for sure.

For me though, I had to pour cold water on a sentimental video you understand, I highly doubt a cat is even capable of knowing what death is.

That is arrogance on our part to assume we are the only creatures capable of complex emotions. I have seen many animals display happiness, distress, you name it. Just because they cannot communicate their thought process in a way that we can understand, does not mean it does not exist, but only proves ignorance on our part. Here is an example. I once had a budgie. He was a great guy and could actually pick up and speak complete sentences. That was very odd for a budgie but was still just mimicking. The thing about him though was he had a temper. If you did something to piss him off, you learned very soon that he would get payback. Not immediately either. The normally happy bird would sit on his perch and just stare perfectly silent. If my girlfriend at the time then let him out of his cage to let him exercise his wings, I would have to keep my eyes open because he could fly so quick, right up under my nose and tear at the cartilage in an instant. It was painful as hell and half the time hard enough to make me bleed, but he would become happy again and start yapping. This could even be the next day. That was a tiny budgie holding a grudge.

haha I don't know if that was a joke or not but it made me laugh.

I think if animals were capable of holding grudges and forming plans of revenge we'd be having mayhem on the farms and zoo's across the world.

Animals feel basic emotions like fear, arousal, hunger etc.

I don't think budgies are harbouring resentments and dreaming of payback.....sorry lol

Well I beg to differ. I lived with him for 18 years. I used him as an example on purpose because to someone who hears about it, it would seem outlandish. This budgie though made it easy for people to know him simply because he had 0 instinctive fear of humans. So we ended up seeing all angles of his personality.

He was a funny character though. One time we were all in the TV room waiting for Holyfield/Bowe fight to start. My brother comes over and sits on my couch. The budgie would go nuts as soon as he heard new people arriving and wanted to greet them so he would plow into his cage door until it either fell open or someone would let him out. First thing he did was fly into the room. land on the couch. He then jumped on my brothers head (he was wearing a ball cap) then walked on the brim of the hat to the edge. he then grabbed the edge, flipped upside down like a bat facing my brother and says: "Hey Whatcha Doin?" We all roared.