Thread: Watched Pacquiao-Diaz... I really want him to fight Martinez

Manny was absolutely incredible against David Diaz who was the only southpaw a modern version of Manny has faced. It was amazing watching him not only put together right handed combinations, but also his defensive skills were quite sharp. I honestly think a performance like that would have him beating the crap out of Martinez. I see Martinez as potentially explosive, but mostly a guy who is a little sloppy who beats guys on speed. I honestly think his style wouldn't trouble Manny even as much as Andre Berto or Mosley. Styles make fights and Martinez from what I've seen doesn't have a style that works well against a guy faster than him who is also far more technical like Pacquiao. I see Martinez coming in with sloppy balance like he always does and Manny would counter him, and pick him apart when he tried to drop his hands when he moves away after attacking.

Good points Teath.

The only concern I have with that is the reach deficit. I mean Martinez is fairly light on his toes, is very coordinated and is much longer in the arm so Manny may well do all the right things tactically but may be in for a shock when he finds himself missing by millimetres which may make all the difference

I dunno though... Crazy to think that I'm actually debating this?!

"David Diaz"





The only thing Diaz and Martinez have in common style wise, is they're just both southpaws.

Taeth, I do too. Two top fight p4p guys is always great for the sport especially if PBF v. Pac can't be made. But, let's be honest, you aren't a big fan of Martinez. I've never read a positive post about him from you.

Paul Williams dominated Winky Wright. He dominated Verno Phillips and Carlos Quintana and beat pre-Shane, Antonio Margarito. Sergio Martinez knocked Tall Paul out cold. You have to give him credit for that.

Pacquiao at his biggest really is a small welterweight. Martinez isn't Paul Williams - he's a thinker and he'll use his advantages. He'd pot shot and fight from a distance. Also, he has one punch KO power against middleweights with proven chins. It's a dangerous fight for Pac. I think it is more dangerous than Shane or Berto. Still, Pacquiao should be favored going into it. I'd give Pac more credit for taking this fight than for taking a fight with Shane or Berto or Marquez as long as the fight was at 155 or above.

Anyway, the fight won't ever happen. Here is Freddie Roach on it: Pacquiao vs Martinez won't happen - Roach | ABS-CBN News | Latest Philippine Headlines, Breaking News, Video, Analysis, Features

"Roach vowed to keep Pacquiao fighting at the welterweight limit where the boxing superstar is more 'comfortable' in.
If Martinez refuses to go down to 147 lbs., then 'the Pacquiao fight won't happen because he's too small.' "

Hey Taeth, while we are on the topic, who do you favor between Cotto and Martinez at 155?

Taeth, i'd love to see Manny fight Martinez, I think it would be a great fight, although I would say Martinez would stop him. A martinez fight at 147, no thanks. Sergio Martinez hasn't made 147 in nearly ten years. Although Glen Johnson might have something to say about my opinion.

I'd also love to see Manny vs Angulo. I say that would be a war...... To be honest, after thinking about it more, i think that Manny vs Mosely would be a decent war also...... Don't like Berto.

Freddie Roach is such a wanker!

Why would you even try to make a guy long at the end of his Light Middleweight days try to fight at Welterweight

Originally Posted by The Grinch

Freddie Roach is such a wanker!

Why would you even try to make massive Light Middleweight try to fight at Welterweight

Agreed.

Martinez doesn't have the very best stamina in the world, as he showed late on in the first Williams fight, so at 147, he may find himself way gone. Dangling a carrot like that to a guy like Martinez might just start something though. Money can make people do some daft things. Like agree to 147 when you haven't weighed that for nearly ten years.

Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Taeth, I do too. Two top fight p4p guys is always great for the sport especially if PBF v. Pac can't be made. But, let's be honest, you aren't a big fan of Martinez. I've never read a positive post about him from you.

Paul Williams dominated Winky Wright. He dominated Verno Phillips and Carlos Quintana and beat pre-Shane, Antonio Margarito. Sergio Martinez knocked Tall Paul out cold. You have to give him credit for that.

Pacquiao at his biggest really is a small welterweight. Martinez isn't Paul Williams - he's a thinker and he'll use his advantages. He'd pot shot and fight from a distance. Also, he has one punch KO power against middleweights with proven chins. It's a dangerous fight for Pac. I think it is more dangerous than Shane or Berto. Still, Pacquiao should be favored going into it. I'd give Pac more credit for taking this fight than for taking a fight with Shane or Berto or Marquez as long as the fight was at 155 or above.

Anyway, the fight won't ever happen. Here is Freddie Roach on it: Pacquiao vs Martinez won't happen - Roach | ABS-CBN News | Latest Philippine Headlines, Breaking News, Video, Analysis, Features

"Roach vowed to keep Pacquiao fighting at the welterweight limit where the boxing superstar is more 'comfortable' in.
If Martinez refuses to go down to 147 lbs., then 'the Pacquiao fight won't happen because he's too small.' "

Hey Taeth, while we are on the topic, who do you favor between Cotto and Martinez at 155?

it depends, I never felt Cotto was shot until I saw him against FOreman, I honestly think Foreman was getting the better of him in some of the rounds and looked better than him in spots.

Based on styles I would pick Cotto over Martinez, and if Cotto was closer to his best I think he would beat Martinez because as he showed early against Pacquiao, he is actually pretty quick himself, and he can deal with guys that have better speed than him. A guy like Martinez IMO would have a hard time hitting Cotto harder than COtto would be hitting him. I would see COtto working inside and stopping a guy like Martinez to the body, I always believed he woudl do the same to Williams who like Martinez gives me a feeling being too dangly"best word I can think of". I disagree with people that say Martinez is very coordinated, I think he is athletic and could be coordinated with a better trainer or more training, but he always seems a little off balance to me.

As for Paul Williams, Verno Phillips isn't that impressive to me, I only give Williams credit really against Margarito and Wright despite the fact he was watched up and didn't show up. I actually remember the first fight Paul had against Quintana because he was clearly outboxed by a guy who wasn't really that impressive. I think Quintana is a good b level fighter, but I think that fight he proved so was WIlliams. THe second fight Williams landed the right blow at the right time.

I've just read about Roach saying he is willing to have Pacuqiao fight WIlliams at 154-155ish, we will see. I think Pacquiao beats up Martinez if he stays at his current weight.

Pac would be throwing a lot of right hooks.

The last southpaw pac fought was with cotto. Cotto would sometimes switch to southpaw but would immediately catch a right hook.

Martinez is a dangerous fight but I like pacs chances. IMO it is worth the risk.

I doubt Martinez would be able to get down to 147, DiBella said he would have to kill himself to make 154. This just isn't happening, Arum's made it clear he's looking for the biggest payday and doesn't want to co-promote, Martinez isn't likely to come close to drawing more money than someone like Mosley, and even if he could, I can't see DiBella stepping aside to let Top Rank handle the promotion themselves.

Originally Posted by Taeth

Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Taeth, I do too. Two top fight p4p guys is always great for the sport especially if PBF v. Pac can't be made. But, let's be honest, you aren't a big fan of Martinez. I've never read a positive post about him from you.

Paul Williams dominated Winky Wright. He dominated Verno Phillips and Carlos Quintana and beat pre-Shane, Antonio Margarito. Sergio Martinez knocked Tall Paul out cold. You have to give him credit for that.

Pacquiao at his biggest really is a small welterweight. Martinez isn't Paul Williams - he's a thinker and he'll use his advantages. He'd pot shot and fight from a distance. Also, he has one punch KO power against middleweights with proven chins. It's a dangerous fight for Pac. I think it is more dangerous than Shane or Berto. Still, Pacquiao should be favored going into it. I'd give Pac more credit for taking this fight than for taking a fight with Shane or Berto or Marquez as long as the fight was at 155 or above.

Anyway, the fight won't ever happen. Here is Freddie Roach on it: Pacquiao vs Martinez won't happen - Roach | ABS-CBN News | Latest Philippine Headlines, Breaking News, Video, Analysis, Features

"Roach vowed to keep Pacquiao fighting at the welterweight limit where the boxing superstar is more 'comfortable' in.
If Martinez refuses to go down to 147 lbs., then 'the Pacquiao fight won't happen because he's too small.' "

Hey Taeth, while we are on the topic, who do you favor between Cotto and Martinez at 155?

it depends, I never felt Cotto was shot until I saw him against FOreman, I honestly think Foreman was getting the better of him in some of the rounds and looked better than him in spots.

Based on styles I would pick Cotto over Martinez, and if Cotto was closer to his best I think he would beat Martinez because as he showed early against Pacquiao, he is actually pretty quick himself, and he can deal with guys that have better speed than him. A guy like Martinez IMO would have a hard time hitting Cotto harder than COtto would be hitting him. I would see COtto working inside and stopping a guy like Martinez to the body, I always believed he woudl do the same to Williams who like Martinez gives me a feeling being too dangly"best word I can think of". I disagree with people that say Martinez is very coordinated, I think he is athletic and could be coordinated with a better trainer or more training, but he always seems a little off balance to me.

As for Paul Williams, Verno Phillips isn't that impressive to me, I only give Williams credit really against Margarito and Wright despite the fact he was watched up and didn't show up. I actually remember the first fight Paul had against Quintana because he was clearly outboxed by a guy who wasn't really that impressive. I think Quintana is a good b level fighter, but I think that fight he proved so was WIlliams. THe second fight Williams landed the right blow at the right time.

I've just read about Roach saying he is willing to have Pacuqiao fight WIlliams at 154-155ish, we will see. I think Pacquiao beats up Martinez if he stays at his current weight.

When Cotto and Martinez fight, Martinez will dominate. We'll talk then.

You should give Martinez a little more credit than you do in my opinion. In one year, he beat Kermit Cintron, Paul Williams, and Kelly Pavlik. He also has the knockout of the year and he's the linear middleweight champion. He's not quite as polished as the other top p4p guys because he doesn't have Nacho Baristain, Freddie Roach, Jeff Mayweather or Emmanual Stewart in his corner, which makes what he has done even that much more impressive. He also doesn't have financial backing of Richard Shaeffer, Bob Arum, Al Hayman, or Frank Warren. Again, making his accomplishments that much more impressive. Moreover, he started boxing at age 20. If anything, the "rawness" of his talent should impress you. Imagine what he could have done if he started earlier and had a top tier trainer in his corner.

freddie roach is just talking out of his buttocks. no way in hell does pacquiao fight martinez at 154! and it's even laughable that he thinks martinez has to go down to 147 to face the WBC jr. middleweight champion of the world, manny pacquiao!!! this is absolutely incredible and outrageous.

if someday roach does agree to the martinez fight at 154, pacquiao's going to be in a world of hurt! martinez isn't david diaz or slow ass margarito. martinez isn't oscar who was so weakened by weight loss because he's an idiot!

if this fight ever does happen at 154, i'm willing to make a straight up bet with anyone here for $1,000.00. i've got a paypal account so you'd have to have one as well.

Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Originally Posted by Taeth

Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Taeth, I do too. Two top fight p4p guys is always great for the sport especially if PBF v. Pac can't be made. But, let's be honest, you aren't a big fan of Martinez. I've never read a positive post about him from you.

Paul Williams dominated Winky Wright. He dominated Verno Phillips and Carlos Quintana and beat pre-Shane, Antonio Margarito. Sergio Martinez knocked Tall Paul out cold. You have to give him credit for that.

Pacquiao at his biggest really is a small welterweight. Martinez isn't Paul Williams - he's a thinker and he'll use his advantages. He'd pot shot and fight from a distance. Also, he has one punch KO power against middleweights with proven chins. It's a dangerous fight for Pac. I think it is more dangerous than Shane or Berto. Still, Pacquiao should be favored going into it. I'd give Pac more credit for taking this fight than for taking a fight with Shane or Berto or Marquez as long as the fight was at 155 or above.

Anyway, the fight won't ever happen. Here is Freddie Roach on it: Pacquiao vs Martinez won't happen - Roach | ABS-CBN News | Latest Philippine Headlines, Breaking News, Video, Analysis, Features

"Roach vowed to keep Pacquiao fighting at the welterweight limit where the boxing superstar is more 'comfortable' in.
If Martinez refuses to go down to 147 lbs., then 'the Pacquiao fight won't happen because he's too small.' "

Hey Taeth, while we are on the topic, who do you favor between Cotto and Martinez at 155?

it depends, I never felt Cotto was shot until I saw him against FOreman, I honestly think Foreman was getting the better of him in some of the rounds and looked better than him in spots.

Based on styles I would pick Cotto over Martinez, and if Cotto was closer to his best I think he would beat Martinez because as he showed early against Pacquiao, he is actually pretty quick himself, and he can deal with guys that have better speed than him. A guy like Martinez IMO would have a hard time hitting Cotto harder than COtto would be hitting him. I would see COtto working inside and stopping a guy like Martinez to the body, I always believed he woudl do the same to Williams who like Martinez gives me a feeling being too dangly"best word I can think of". I disagree with people that say Martinez is very coordinated, I think he is athletic and could be coordinated with a better trainer or more training, but he always seems a little off balance to me.

As for Paul Williams, Verno Phillips isn't that impressive to me, I only give Williams credit really against Margarito and Wright despite the fact he was watched up and didn't show up. I actually remember the first fight Paul had against Quintana because he was clearly outboxed by a guy who wasn't really that impressive. I think Quintana is a good b level fighter, but I think that fight he proved so was WIlliams. THe second fight Williams landed the right blow at the right time.

I've just read about Roach saying he is willing to have Pacuqiao fight WIlliams at 154-155ish, we will see. I think Pacquiao beats up Martinez if he stays at his current weight.

When Cotto and Martinez fight, Martinez will dominate. We'll talk then.

You should give Martinez a little more credit than you do in my opinion. In one year, he beat Kermit Cintron, Paul Williams, and Kelly Pavlik. He also has the knockout of the year and he's the linear middleweight champion. He's not quite as polished as the other top p4p guys because he doesn't have Nacho Baristain, Freddie Roach, Jeff Mayweather or Emmanual Stewart in his corner, which makes what he has done even that much more impressive. He also doesn't have financial backing of Richard Shaeffer, Bob Arum, Al Hayman, or Frank Warren. Again, making his accomplishments that much more impressive. Moreover, he started boxing at age 20. If anything, the "rawness" of his talent should impress you. Imagine what he could have done if he started earlier and had a top tier trainer in his corner.

I don't care if he started when he was 25, Nate Campbell at his best was more polished than Martinez and he started boxing later than Sergio. THe difference is that Sergio is way more athletically gifted. His accomplishments are impressive no doubt, but Manny's are way more so.

Honestly Cotto we don't know where he is right now so it's hard to judge how he would do against Martinez, but more than likely he would do fine against Sergio Martinez. There is no way based on what has happened that Sergio will dominate him. Sergio certainly didn't dominate Cintron or Paul Williams in their first fight, and neither of them are on Cotto's level... or the level he was on. THe only thing Sergio has on Cotto is speed, but COtto deals with speed really well, and Martinez doesn't throw amazing uppercuts nor does he have the same combinations and footwork that Manny does.

Anyways back to the matchup in question. If Manny fought Sergio it would be at 154-155, and I don't see why that's a problem, Sergio is a small middleweight, and he should be able to make 154 solidly. It might be hard, but based on his size he should be fine getting there with no adverse affects.

People are being retarted if they think I was comparing Diaz to Martinez, I clearly wasn't, but I was talking about what Pacquiao can do against a southpaw. He still goes to the body well, he jabs better against southpaws, he is actually harder to hit. Martinez did throw that huge right hook against Paul WIlliams in round I of their first fihgt, but overall I have not been as impressed by his right hand from which he throws a lazy albeit fast jab, and few hooks.

His problems is that he fights in spots far too much, and he seems to not retain his mental focus as much as he could, and Manny's speed, power, endurance would gradually overwhelm him.

To be fair, Martinez has no business fighting at 154 anymore.