Thread: Why is Lucian Bute regarded as the 2nd best Smw?

What has he done and who has he beaten to be known as the second best.. His undefeated record?

I ask because people keep saying that ward and bute must face each other for supremacy of the division but who says bute is that number two guy?

He clearly looks like the man to beat.

Ward has just won the super six and beaten everybody else who would you have him fight if not Bute?

I'm not a big fan but there is no doubt he's the number 2 right now imo.

He beat down Glen Johnson far easier than Froch did, apart from his hiccup with Andrae, which he avenged specatcularly he has battered everybody. Watch some of his Ko's, of Andrade, Miranda etc. He totally dominated Sakio Bika too.

Cleary he's the man Ward must face and as much as I hate to admit it, seeing as I argued this with CFH for ages, I'd see Bute beating Kessler and Froch pretty handily right now.

Given that Ward has beaten Froch and Kessler, then its the only viable opponent left for him in terms of proving his supremacy (Andre Dirrell aint gona happen anytime soon). Plus Bute looks really good whenever he fights so people are high on him.

But I take your point on the number 2 thing. His number 2 position is purely theoretical and has no basis in fact. He should be number 4. If I made a list thats where I would put him. I would base rankings purely on results, facts and competition faced rather than conjecture. Whether you think he would beat Froch or Kessler should be irrelevant imo

The Ring rate Bute no.1 (Ward is now champ) - Boxing Ratings | RingTV

Bute is clearly not the 2nd best based on form/resume but is the best challenger without doubt.

Who else would be ranked second? The reasons are: his (1) undefeated record, (2) performances against common opponents with the other top guys in the division, and (3) out of default because there are no other real options. It doesn't hurt that he gets people out of there spectacularly either. There is NO doubt Ward is number one.

Cause ward would maul and potshot his ass to death. If andrade gave him problems, i can only imagine how ward would frustrate him. The thing about ward is most guys dont train on how to avoid the wrestling and stuff ward does. And if you prepare for one camp so what. Ward has been training on how to do it his whole career. Some may not like it , but while people complain about it, he's winning using it. While khan somewhere and golden boy are crying about a ref who tried to stop this type of crap. Ah well

Hang on the final was between froch and ward and warding being #1 that should make froch #2 and bute #3??
That's the whole point of the tournament that bute pussied out of, if he didn't pussy out he woulda been in it. If froch won then Andre would be second. Ibf belt doesn't make you second

Originally Posted by Dropanuke

Hang on the final was between froch and ward and warding being #1 that should make froch #2 and bute #3??
That's the whole point of the tournament that bute pussied out of, if he didn't pussy out he woulda been in it. If froch won then Andre would be second. Ibf belt doesn't make you second

No, this is not “the whole point of the tournament” since Bute, the no. 2 of the SM division at the time was left outside of the S6.
And Bute didn’t pussied out, he was just not invited.
Showtime Sports executive vice president and general manager Ken Hershman said:
" the tournament was very difficult to put together and the only way to get five promoters and six fighters on the same page was within the existing relationships I had. It wasn't that I didn't think [Bute and Bedard] were worthy or trustworthy. I just didn't have the depth of the relationship I had with the others."

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=5769178

This having been said, I have no problem putting Bute behind Froch.

Originally Posted by Mar

Cause ward would maul and potshot his ass to death. If andrade gave him problems, i can only imagine how ward would frustrate him. The thing about ward is most guys dont train on how to avoid the wrestling and stuff ward does. And if you prepare for one camp so what. Ward has been training on how to do it his whole career. Some may not like it , but while people complain about it, he's winning using it. While khan somewhere and golden boy are crying about a ref who tried to stop this type of crap. Ah well

Correct me if I'm wrong but the point of Finito's post, as an avowed Bute-hater, was to ask why Bute wasn't ranked lower, not why he was ranked behind Ward. In terms of Ward, all we know for certain is that for whatever reason he doesn't want to face Bute right now. Andre Ward-Lucian Bute bout looks unlikely for time being - ESPN

Ward stated: "So I don't have to go to Lucian Bute right now. We're going to sit back and I'm going to rest and we'll see what's next. I'm open for a Mikkel Kessler clash."

Ward further stated: "It don't work like that. This is a sport, but we also use our brains for business, and we'll sit down and make a solid business decision"

Can we all agree that he's open to a Kessler fight because he knows that is an easier match-up for him? What other legitimate reason can he have to prefer Kessler?

Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Originally Posted by Mar

Cause ward would maul and potshot his ass to death. If andrade gave him problems, i can only imagine how ward would frustrate him. The thing about ward is most guys dont train on how to avoid the wrestling and stuff ward does. And if you prepare for one camp so what. Ward has been training on how to do it his whole career. Some may not like it , but while people complain about it, he's winning using it. While khan somewhere and golden boy are crying about a ref who tried to stop this type of crap. Ah well

Correct me if I'm wrong but the point of Finito's post, as an avowed Bute-hater, was to ask why Bute wasn't ranked lower, not why he was ranked behind Ward. In terms of Ward, all

we know for certain is that for whatever reason he doesn't want to face Bute right now. Andre Ward-Lucian Bute bout looks unlikely for time being - ESPN

Ward stated: "So I don't have to go to Lucian Bute right now. We're going to sit back and I'm going to rest and we'll see what's next. I'm open for a Mikkel Kessler clash."

Ward further stated: "It don't work like that. This is a sport, but we also use our brains for business, and we'll sit down and make a solid business decision"

Can we all agree that he's open to a Kessler fight because he knows that is an easier match-up for him? What other legitimate reason can he have to prefer Kessler?

To be fair I think Ward is entitled to choose who he wants to fight at this point, he has easily the best resume at super middle. I don't think he is dodging Bute at all. As he has just taken part in the super six and become a Showtime regular maybe he sees the best commercial appeal for his next fight in staying with Showtime and the super six fighter roster for now. A rematch with the popular samr, back to.winning ways after an injury layoff is an easy fight to make, both sets of promoters used to dealing with each other, Showtime happy to broadcast, both fighters knowing their relative worth and value. It makes sense he would pursue that next.

He will fight Bute, but on his own terms I imagine, when he has the most leverage.

Either day its ridiculous to suggest he is dodging Bute. You don't sign up to and win the Super Six without being willing to risk it all and face the best.

Record not resume

dont start adobting stoopid american terms that sound shitter than the british version

alright the americans have introduced some good terminology like Awesome (but only when said in a kind of sarcastic way) but Resume sounds gay

by the way Bute hasnt done anything to deserve his status as the second best super middle in the world, the ring and everyone else need to base their judgement on fact rather than opinion

he looks very good but until he has beaten a top contender then he cant be rated that high

its like saying one football team is better than another coz they have beaten lots of championship teams and the other has had mixed success against prem teams, get me?

Originally Posted by erics44

Record not resume

dont start adobting stoopid american terms that sound shitter than the british version

alright the americans have introduced some good terminology like Awesome (but only when said in a kind of sarcastic way) but Resume sounds gay

by the way Bute hasnt done anything to deserve his status as the second best super middle in the world, the ring and everyone else need to base their judgement on fact rather than opinion

he looks very good but until he has beaten a top contender then he cant be rated that high

its like saying one football team is better than another coz they have beaten lots of championship teams and the other has had mixed success against prem teams, get me?

I like

Originally Posted by Bilbo

He clearly looks like the man to beat.

Ward has just won the super six and beaten everybody else who would you have him fight if not Bute?

I'm not a big fan but there is no doubt he's the number 2 right now imo.

He beat down Glen Johnson far easier than Froch did, apart from his hiccup with Andrae, which he avenged specatcularly he has battered everybody. Watch some of his Ko's, of Andrade, Miranda etc. He totally dominated Sakio Bika too.

Cleary he's the man Ward must face and as much as I hate to admit it, seeing as I argued this with CFH for ages, I'd see Bute beating Kessler and Froch pretty handily right now.

I quite rubbed my eyes... I can't believe you said it.

I still think Kessler can be the man in this division. I rewatched the Kessler/Ward fight this evening and it was appalling. Ward is the dirtiest, nastiest and most typical Christian I have ever seen.

Kessler does far better in a rematch knowing what that skank is all about. As for Bute, I don't hold him in massive regard. He is far less dirty than S.O.B. though so I like him more.

Froch is clearly more limited, but he has the biggest heart. He just doesn't have any real tools.

Originally Posted by Bilbo

Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Originally Posted by Mar

Cause ward would maul and potshot his ass to death. If andrade gave him problems, i can only imagine how ward would frustrate him. The thing about ward is most guys dont train on how to avoid the wrestling and stuff ward does. And if you prepare for one camp so what. Ward has been training on how to do it his whole career. Some may not like it , but while people complain about it, he's winning using it. While khan somewhere and golden boy are crying about a ref who tried to stop this type of crap. Ah well

Correct me if I'm wrong but the point of Finito's post, as an avowed Bute-hater, was to ask why Bute wasn't ranked lower, not why he was ranked behind Ward. In terms of Ward, all

we know for certain is that for whatever reason he doesn't want to face Bute right now. Andre Ward-Lucian Bute bout looks unlikely for time being - ESPN

Ward stated: "So I don't have to go to Lucian Bute right now. We're going to sit back and I'm going to rest and we'll see what's next. I'm open for a Mikkel Kessler clash."

Ward further stated: "It don't work like that. This is a sport, but we also use our brains for business, and we'll sit down and make a solid business decision"

Can we all agree that he's open to a Kessler fight because he knows that is an easier match-up for him? What other legitimate reason can he have to prefer Kessler?

To be fair I think Ward is entitled to choose who he wants to fight at this point, he has easily the best resume at super middle. I don't think he is dodging Bute at all. As he has just taken part in the super six and become a Showtime regular maybe he sees the best commercial appeal for his next fight in staying with Showtime and the super six fighter roster for now. A rematch with the popular samr, back to.winning ways after an injury layoff is an easy fight to make, both sets of promoters used to dealing with each other, Showtime happy to broadcast, both fighters knowing their relative worth and value. It makes sense he would pursue that next.

He will fight Bute, but on his own terms I imagine, when he has the most leverage.

Either day its ridiculous to suggest he is dodging Bute. You don't sign up to and win the Super Six without being willing to risk it all and face the best.

It appears that is what I was insinuating and if that is the case, it was inadvertant. I meant to just pose the question why is Ward not fighting Bute now?

I can see if he faced Kessler and beat him that he may have gained leverage, but if Bute faces Froch now, the consensus number three in the division, it is negated. The likelihood is that Ward takes care of his mandatory in Anthony Dirrell, which won't gain him any leverage. Frankly, I don't believe there is any reason to not take Ward at his word. This is a business and when you weigh the risks/rewards, Kessler is less risk and as much reward as Bute.

I also submit that Kessler won't face Ward again for a while because he can make so much money in Denmark. Given his injuries and S6 performances, Kessler's best days are behind him. The old Kessler would have gone for glory and signed up to fight Bute as opposed to taking on Steiglitz, someone who Andrade beat. It's really a huge step back for Kessler, but a smart business decision because once he has the belt, he can keep it hostage in Denmark for a while. Kessler may have earned that right, don't get me wrong. There is a possibility Kessler unifies with the winner of Froch/Bute especially if it is Froch, but I sort of doubt it.

Moreover, Bute and Kessler in their respective hometowns are the number one and two money-makers in the division even if Ward is the number one fighter. If Bute beats Froch and/or Kessler, and Ward takes on Anthony Dirrell in his mandatory, Ward will have less leverage than he has now, right? Now, he is the MAN in the division based on his wins over Froch and Kessler. If Bute matches that, his number one ranking becomes a bit murkier. So, I don't see any reason he isn't fighting Bute other than it's a bigger risk than Kessler etc.