Thread: Ward pulls out of Pavlik fight for shoulder surgury. Pavlik-Bute possible

Andre Ward pulls out of fight with Kelly Pavlik as he needs shoulder surgery | Sky Sports

I think we can all agree, it is pretty clear Ward is ducking Pavlik out of fear. Interestingly, yesterday I read that Bute was going to take an another interim fight and that he was considering Pavlik should Andre Ward pull out (See below link). He must have known something we didn't. Pavlik vs. Bute is a better fight IMO and Bute couldn't have a better test before rematching Froch. Bute has pretty much confirmed that Froch is not next, which confirms the reports of FRoch-Kessler 2 being able to be signed.

Bute States That Froch Rematch Could Land in The Fall - Boxing News

pavlik is a tough fight for bute

pavlik has a good chin and can punch even if he isnt the fighter he once was

Originally Posted by erics44

pavlik is a tough fight for bute

pavlik has a good chin and can punch even if he isnt the fighter he once was

It's a myth that Pavlik has power at 168. At super middleweight, Pavlik isn't any stronger than an average boxer. Who has be stopped since he was at middleweight? This is a perfect fight for Bute because it is b$g, and because it is relatively low risk. Grachev was probably tougher.

Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Originally Posted by erics44

pavlik is a tough fight for bute

pavlik has a good chin and can punch even if he isnt the fighter he once was

It's a myth that Pavlik has power at 168. At super middleweight, Pavlik isn't any stronger than an average boxer. Who has be stopped since he was at middleweight? This is a perfect fight for Bute because it is b$g, and because it is relatively low risk. Grachev was probably tougher.

I agree, Bute is the type of fighter who could befuddle Pavlik but he better not lose focus or slow down.

We should see if Ward has surgery before we call him a coward, don't you think.

Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Originally Posted by erics44

pavlik is a tough fight for bute

pavlik has a good chin and can punch even if he isnt the fighter he once was

It's a myth that Pavlik has power at 168. At super middleweight, Pavlik isn't any stronger than an average boxer. Who has be stopped since he was at middleweight? This is a perfect fight for Bute because it is b$g, and because it is relatively low risk. Grachev was probably tougher.

As usual Rant, we're going to disagree about Pavlik (although it's usually you defending him after me criticizing him). I think it is an unknown how much power he has at 168 against top level fighters, but he stopped 2 of his last 4 at 168, and he dropped Rosinsky before decisioning him. If he uses the Froch fight as a basis, Kelly is used to applying a similar type of pressure and I think he'd be capable of stopping Bute if he can follow a similar blueprint. Sometimes these things are as much about confidence. If Pavlik were to stop Bute, it may bring back the confidence in his ability to go for the kill.

I think Kelly has decent enough pop at 168, and I think his actual boxing skills get underestimated a lot. He's a huge threat to Bute at this point.

Originally Posted by bzkfn

Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Originally Posted by erics44

pavlik is a tough fight for bute

pavlik has a good chin and can punch even if he isnt the fighter he once was

It's a myth that Pavlik has power at 168. At super middleweight, Pavlik isn't any stronger than an average boxer. Who has be stopped since he was at middleweight? This is a perfect fight for Bute because it is b$g, and because it is relatively low risk. Grachev was probably tougher.

As usual Rant, we're going to disagree about Pavlik (although it's usually you defending him after me criticizing him). I think it is an unknown how much power he has at 168 against top level fighters, but he stopped 2 of his last 4 at 168, and he dropped Rosinsky before decisioning him. If he uses the Froch fight as a basis, Kelly is used to applying a similar type of pressure and I think he'd be capable of stopping Bute if he can follow a similar blueprint. Sometimes these things are as much about confidence. If Pavlik were to stop Bute, it may bring back the confidence in his ability to go for the kill.

Fair play. You know I'm a Pavlik fan. I just am not convinced he has that strong-as-an-ox power that he had at middleweight, at super middleweight. Here's the bottom line: I'm not convinced Pavlik can beat a top super middleweight, whether it be Bute, Ward, Froch, Kessler etc., because he isn't super-skilled and he doesn't have the advantage of being a beast at the weight. I understand why Bute would fight Pavlik now and why Pavlik would fight Bute. It makes sense. Will you give Bute a lot of credit were he to beat Pavlik? I'm not sure I'll give him more credit than that he beat a former middleweight champion, which is a good win, as he rebuilds for the Froch rematch. For the record, I wouldn't have given Ward credit either, less in fact than Bute, because Ward doesn't need a rebuilding fight.

Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Originally Posted by bzkfn

Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Originally Posted by erics44

pavlik is a tough fight for bute

pavlik has a good chin and can punch even if he isnt the fighter he once was

It's a myth that Pavlik has power at 168. At super middleweight, Pavlik isn't any stronger than an average boxer. Who has be stopped since he was at middleweight? This is a perfect fight for Bute because it is b$g, and because it is relatively low risk. Grachev was probably tougher.

As usual Rant, we're going to disagree about Pavlik (although it's usually you defending him after me criticizing him). I think it is an unknown how much power he has at 168 against top level fighters, but he stopped 2 of his last 4 at 168, and he dropped Rosinsky before decisioning him. If he uses the Froch fight as a basis, Kelly is used to applying a similar type of pressure and I think he'd be capable of stopping Bute if he can follow a similar blueprint. Sometimes these things are as much about confidence. If Pavlik were to stop Bute, it may bring back the confidence in his ability to go for the kill.

Fair play. You know I'm a Pavlik fan. I just am not convinced he has that strong-as-an-ox power that he had at middleweight, at super middleweight. Here's the bottom line: I'm not convinced Pavlik can beat a top super middleweight, whether it be Bute, Ward, Froch, Kessler etc., because he isn't super-skilled and he doesn't have the advantage of being a beast at the weight. I understand why Bute would fight Pavlik now and why Pavlik would fight Bute. It makes sense. Will you give Bute a lot of credit were he to beat Pavlik? I'm not sure I'll give him more credit than that he beat a former middleweight champion, which is a good win, as he rebuilds for the Froch rematch. For the record, I wouldn't have given Ward credit either, less in fact than Bute, because Ward doesn't need a rebuilding fight.

I'd give either one credit if he should win, as I believe they are both on the cusp of being in or out of contention and each is a dangerous fight for the other. Bute is a skill fighter and Pavlik has had his issues with this before, but I'd say Pavlik has a similar relentless style to Froch, which we know was Bute's undoing. If they fight, whomever takes it will have overcome a bit of a mental hurdle, and may enable them to recover to a top level of sorts. Only putting Kelly in a top level fight will let you know if he had carried his power up. It is the perfect tune up fight for both and would let many know who had the most left.

That being said, I've heard Abraham is looking to make a fight with Pavlik too, so Kelly is pretty sort after right now.

Perhaps he might have another tattoo..

Originally Posted by bzkfn

Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Originally Posted by bzkfn

Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Originally Posted by erics44

pavlik is a tough fight for bute

pavlik has a good chin and can punch even if he isnt the fighter he once was

It's a myth that Pavlik has power at 168. At super middleweight, Pavlik isn't any stronger than an average boxer. Who has be stopped since he was at middleweight? This is a perfect fight for Bute because it is b$g, and because it is relatively low risk. Grachev was probably tougher.

As usual Rant, we're going to disagree about Pavlik (although it's usually you defending him after me criticizing him). I think it is an unknown how much power he has at 168 against top level fighters, but he stopped 2 of his last 4 at 168, and he dropped Rosinsky before decisioning him. If he uses the Froch fight as a basis, Kelly is used to applying a similar type of pressure and I think he'd be capable of stopping Bute if he can follow a similar blueprint. Sometimes these things are as much about confidence. If Pavlik were to stop Bute, it may bring back the confidence in his ability to go for the kill.

Fair play. You know I'm a Pavlik fan. I just am not convinced he has that strong-as-an-ox power that he had at middleweight, at super middleweight. Here's the bottom line: I'm not convinced Pavlik can beat a top super middleweight, whether it be Bute, Ward, Froch, Kessler etc., because he isn't super-skilled and he doesn't have the advantage of being a beast at the weight. I understand why Bute would fight Pavlik now and why Pavlik would fight Bute. It makes sense. Will you give Bute a lot of credit were he to beat Pavlik? I'm not sure I'll give him more credit than that he beat a former middleweight champion, which is a good win, as he rebuilds for the Froch rematch. For the record, I wouldn't have given Ward credit either, less in fact than Bute, because Ward doesn't need a rebuilding fight.

I'd give either one credit if he should win, as I believe they are both on the cusp of being in or out of contention and each is a dangerous fight for the other. Bute is a skill fighter and Pavlik has had his issues with this before, but I'd say Pavlik has a similar relentless style to Froch, which we know was Bute's undoing. If they fight, whomever takes it will have overcome a bit of a mental hurdle, and may enable them to recover to a top level of sorts. Only putting Kelly in a top level fight will let you know if he had carried his power up. It is the perfect tune up fight for both and would let many know who had the most left.

That being said, I've heard Abraham is looking to make a fight with Pavlik too, so Kelly is pretty sort after right now.

Abraham-Pavlik is a very fun fight.

I just want to point out one thing about Bute. Bute had trouble with Froch, but he beat other good pressure fighters, arguably more "pressure style" than Froch - Glen Johnson, Sakio Bika, and Librado Andrade. I think Froch actually just out-thought Bute -- and did it with pressure, if that make sense. I view Froch as more of a thinker than brawler. Might just be me.

Better night for Pavlik. If he can jump a newly beat up Bute with some wreckless abandon somewhat in Froch fashion he may make him see ghosts and give himself a chance for a big upset. I can't see it happening though. Pavlik is patchwork now from what he was and hasn't looked on the top level in last two fights. Unless Bute is shell shocked off loss he should stay mobile enough and box Pavlik nice over 12.

A better and possibly more entertaining fight in my opinion. I'm going with Pavlik by ko in a bloody war.

Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Abraham-Pavlik is a very fun fight.

I just want to point out one thing about Bute. Bute had trouble with Froch, but he beat other good pressure fighters, arguably more "pressure style" than Froch - Glen Johnson, Sakio Bika, and Librado Andrade. I think Froch actually just out-thought Bute -- and did it with pressure, if that make sense. I view Froch as more of a thinker than brawler. Might just be me.

Very good point. Froch is a thinker at times, but I felt thought process went out of the window and he decided that swarming Bute was the answer. When Andrade did this in the last round of the first fight, Bute had no answer. Pavlik did this to Miranda, so he is capable of it. I'm more making the argument of a 50-50 fight, but I should point out that I don't believe Pavlik would win it. I think he lacked confidence ever since the staph infection flared up. He was doubting himself in the corner when Espino wouldn't wilt, so I think it's unlikely he'll ever get that back. Hopkins kinda took his soul.

Originally Posted by bzkfn

Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Abraham-Pavlik is a very fun fight.

I just want to point out one thing about Bute. Bute had trouble with Froch, but he beat other good pressure fighters, arguably more "pressure style" than Froch - Glen Johnson, Sakio Bika, and Librado Andrade. I think Froch actually just out-thought Bute -- and did it with pressure, if that make sense. I view Froch as more of a thinker than brawler. Might just be me.

Very good point. Froch is a thinker at times, but I felt thought process went out of the window and he decided that swarming Bute was the answer. When Andrade did this in the last round of the first fight, Bute had no answer. Pavlik did this to Miranda, so he is capable of it. I'm more making the argument of a 50-50 fight, but I should point out that I don't believe Pavlik would win it. I think he lacked confidence ever since the staph infection flared up. He was doubting himself in the corner when Espino wouldn't wilt, so I think it's unlikely he'll ever get that back. Hopkins kinda took his soul.

Would you be impressed with a stoppage by Bute?

Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Originally Posted by bzkfn

Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Originally Posted by erics44

pavlik is a tough fight for bute

pavlik has a good chin and can punch even if he isnt the fighter he once was

It's a myth that Pavlik has power at 168. At super middleweight, Pavlik isn't any stronger than an average boxer. Who has be stopped since he was at middleweight? This is a perfect fight for Bute because it is b$g, and because it is relatively low risk. Grachev was probably tougher.

As usual Rant, we're going to disagree about Pavlik (although it's usually you defending him after me criticizing him). I think it is an unknown how much power he has at 168 against top level fighters, but he stopped 2 of his last 4 at 168, and he dropped Rosinsky before decisioning him. If he uses the Froch fight as a basis, Kelly is used to applying a similar type of pressure and I think he'd be capable of stopping Bute if he can follow a similar blueprint. Sometimes these things are as much about confidence. If Pavlik were to stop Bute, it may bring back the confidence in his ability to go for the kill.

Fair play. You know I'm a Pavlik fan. I just am not convinced he has that strong-as-an- ox power that he had at middleweight, at super middleweight. Here's the bottom line: I'm not convinced Pavlik can beat a top super middleweight, whether it be Bute, Ward, Froch, Kessler etc., because he isn't super-skilled and he doesn't have the advantage of being a beast at the weight. I understand why Bute would fight Pavlik now and why Pavlik would fight Bute. It makes sense. Will you give Bute a lot of credit were he to beat Pavlik? I'm not sure I'll give him more credit than that he beat a former middleweight champion, which is a good win, as he rebuilds for the Froch rematch. For the record, I wouldn't have given Ward credit either, less in fact than Bute, because Ward doesn't need a rebuilding fight.

If he stops pavlik at all then he deserves credit and makes froch a Calzaghe beater