Thread: What's funny with Larry Holmes reign as champion...

Hey,

What's funny with Larry Holmes reign as champion was that he NEVER fought for the WBA Championship, even though he very well could have beaten every WBA Chumpion of that era?

Let's take a look at this:
Larry Holmes reign as Champion (WBC and Ring and IBF) from 09/06/1978 to 21/09/1985. But, the guys who held the WBA Chumpionship of the time were:
Muhammad Ali (3) October 30, 1974 — February 15, 1978
Leon Spinks February 15, 1978 — September 15, 1978
Muhammad Ali (4) September 15, 1978 — October 18, 1979
John Tate October 20, 1979 — March 31, 1980
Mike Weaver March 31, 1980 — December 10, 1982
Michael Dokes December 10, 1982 — September 23, 1983
Gerrie Coetzee September 23, 1983 — December 1, 1984
Greg Page December 1, 1984 — April 29, 1985
Tony Tubbs April 29, 1985 — January 17, 1986

Holmes had beaten Ali and Weaver during his reign. If I extended the list post Tony Tubbs to 1987 and put up:
Tim Witherspoon January 17, 1986 — December 12, 1986
James Smith December 12, 1986 — March 7, 1987

These are two guys that Holmes beat already, so why is it that the WBA slighted Holmes? You mean to tell me that Holmes wasn't worthy of fighting Cotzee, Page, Tubbs, Dokes, Spinks (Leon) and Tate? LOLOLOL....

I think boxing writers and boxing analysts missed a prime opportunity to nip the first ergregious signs of boxing politics.

When has opposing federations invited other federations champions to win their belts? The federations are working with specific promoters and between them protect their champion.This isn't about fair play and whose the best its about Mine Mine Mine!!! Ray

The answer to the question is probably Don King, Holmes was the best at the weight and he proved it by his longevity and title defences when the other so called champions lost their titles to opponents, drugs politics and laziness.

Originally Posted by Master

The answer to the question is probably Don King, Holmes was the best at the weight and he proved it by his longevity and title defences when the other so called champions lost their titles to opponents, drugs politics and laziness.

Holmes finished off the dead weight from the late 60's and early 70's, and taught a lesson to the new kids who tried to own the early and mid 80's- all at the same time creaming guys who were peaking. DESTROYED THEM, never to return!!!

His reign was distinctive. In many respects, better than Louis, Marciano, Ali, Tyson, Lennox or Wlad's reign. He is right when he says he doesn't get his just due, because they didn't give him his just due. Perhaps it was too soon after Ali... Ali's flash and braggadocio? Perhaps it was because he didn't have bone-crushing ko power?

Holmes was thee most SKILLED HW Champion EVER.... better than Ali and certainly better than Wlad. The only HW champion that came close to his skill is Lennox, technically speaking. But Lennox is a far second place in my mind...

Larry Holmes is a whining, bitter old man. He came along after Ali, which is no one's fault. "Accept it and move on, old man". He was disgracefully disrespectful to the great Rocky Marciano's memory, while the guy was already dead and not around to defend himself. He (Larry) was always bitching and moaning about not being given his just due 'cause he was black. Like there hadn't been a basket-full of black fighters before him that had gotten their due.

Larry Holmes beat a bunch of nobodies. He lost twice to Michael Spinks....... Michael "Fucking" Spinks!!! Tyson knocked him senseless when he (Larry) had just turned 39, a child by today's standards. Holmes fought on for 14 more years. "Over-the-hill" my ass!!! Tyson crushed him.... and I became an instant fan, 'cause I had been waiting for someone to shut that obnoxious mouth for years. Larry and his man-boobs are revered in boxing, because he's thought of being some kind of boxing god. He had one mega-fight with Gerry Cooney..... an overblown affair because Cooney was "the next great white hope." When in actuality, Cooney was nothing more than a big dolt with a big left hook.

Larry Holmes is one of my 5 most hated boxers of all time.

Larry Holmes was 1 of the best heavyweights of all time. Definitely Top 10. Not Top 5 though. I place Larry about at #7 after Rocky, Cassius, Louis, Johnson, Holyfield, Lewis. I think only those 6 guys could really beat Larry. I say 1990 Holyfield outhustles and out-dogs Holmes---Evander was quicker and had a slightly better chin. Also prime Lennox woulda been real tough for Larry. Larry struggled with Cooney, so imagine with Lennox.

After that, I dont see anybody else beating him. He would whip Bowe, smoke Liston, whip Frazier (Larry only had a weakness for that right hand, he was never rocked by left hooks that I can remember), and yes he struggled with an old Norton, but remember Norton had that style to harrass guys like Ali and Holmes who fought backing up and countering for the most part. Norton was a counter-punching master, so had the perfect style for ali and Holmes.

I think Marciano smokes Norton in about 4 rounds.

Larry Holmes was a tough son of a bitch. Tougher than you realize. Competition may have been less-than-perfect---but do not short-change guys like Mike Weaver, Tim Witherspoon, Earnie Shavers, Gerry Cooney, Ken Norton, Carl Williams---these were dogged and dtermined fighters, big strong guys with plenty of KOs, and Larry had to dig deep to beat them.

Larry Holmes could take just about any punch he got hit with, just like Ali. What a chin Larry had. I have often said Holmes' chin was one of his best weapons. And heart. He refused to lose, out on his feet plenty of times, and boy did he suck it up, dig down deep, and dog it out. He was like a dog. Great fighter IMO. #7 All-Time Great Heavy.

Who whips Holmes besides the Top 6 I listed above? I dare you to say.

Holmes is the deinfition of butthurt old man but he is top 5

Originally Posted by TysonBomb

Holmes is the deinfition of butthurt old man but he is top 5

that butthurt shit is funny as hell. but yeah he does whine too much. wouldnt want to fight him though. He will dog you until you wanna cry. Piston left jab from Hell. Cant knock him out either except when he's 38 and fightin a prime Tyson 16 years his junior.

I think Holmes would stay away from Marciano all night and pepper him with the jab and then come back with a few stunning right hands, just to keep Marciano off of him and honest.

A Holmes/Marciano fight would go the distance, with Holmes winning a close unanimous decision. In a 12 rounder, scores like 116 to 114. In a 15 rounder, 145 to 143- Marciano may even score a knock down. But he won't win the points.

I think a prime Holmes (on US soil) would have won a very controversial fight against Lewis in his prime. It would be no KO, because Holmes wouldn't let Lewis get that close- and Holmes would back away from Lewis right hand.

Remember, Lewis hardly gave you combo's. Lewis may tag him once or twice during the fight, but then Holmes would suck it up and get on his bike for half a round and counter Lewis- and Lewis wouldn't be able to finish him off in the way a Tyson would have pounced on him.

I don't think Johnson had the skill to beat Holmes at any period. But I give you Louis, Cassius Clay and Holyfield. Holyfield would out-score him how he did in their actual fight- even though I could have scored that fight against an ageing Holmes for Holmes or at least a draw.

Originally Posted by ykdadamaja

I think Holmes would stay away from Marciano all night and pepper him with the jab and then come back with a few stunning right hands, just to keep Marciano off of him and honest.

A Holmes/Marciano fight would go the distance, with Holmes winning a close unanimous decision. In a 12 rounder, scores like 116 to 114. In a 15 rounder, 145 to 143- Marciano may even score a knock down. But he won't win the points.

I think a prime Holmes (on US soil) would have won a very controversial fight against Lewis in his prime. It would be no KO, because Holmes wouldn't let Lewis get that close- and Holmes would back away from Lewis right hand.

Remember, Lewis hardly gave you combo's. Lewis may tag him once or twice during the fight, but then Holmes would suck it up and get on his bike for half a round and counter Lewis- and Lewis wouldn't be able to finish him off in the way a Tyson would have pounced on him.

I don't think Johnson had the skill to beat Holmes at any period. But I give you Louis, Cassius Clay and Holyfield. Holyfield would out-score him how he did in their actual fight- even though I could have scored that fight against an ageing Holmes for Holmes or at least a draw.

HOLMES HAD A STUNNER OF A RIGHT BUT IT WAS NO SLEDGEHAMMER

MARCIANO WILL ALWAYS GO THE DISTANCE MY FRIEND, THERE IS NO DISTANCE TOO FAR

LEWIS DIDNT NEED COMBOS, HE RIPPED OFF VITALI'S FACE WITH ONE SHOT, ITS ENOUGH FOR HIS STYLE

JOHNSON COULD NOT BE BEAT--HE WAS A BITCH--HE WILL FUCK YOU UP PSYCHOLOGICALLY BEFORE YOU EVEN GLOVE-UP, HE WON THE FIGHT, HE IS JACK DOWNTOWN JOHNSON AND HE WILL TAKE YOU DOWNTOWN WITH HIS FUR-HAT AND DIAMOND RING AND FUCK YOU UP THE ASS UNTIL YOU LOVE HIM. BUT TYSON SAID WHAT JOHNSON WAS THINKING BUT NEVER SAID.

Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

Originally Posted by ykdadamaja

I think Holmes would stay away from Marciano all night and pepper him with the jab and then come back with a few stunning right hands, just to keep Marciano off of him and honest.

A Holmes/Marciano fight would go the distance, with Holmes winning a close unanimous decision. In a 12 rounder, scores like 116 to 114. In a 15 rounder, 145 to 143- Marciano may even score a knock down. But he won't win the points.

I think a prime Holmes (on US soil) would have won a very controversial fight against Lewis in his prime. It would be no KO, because Holmes wouldn't let Lewis get that close- and Holmes would back away from Lewis right hand.

Remember, Lewis hardly gave you combo's. Lewis may tag him once or twice during the fight, but then Holmes would suck it up and get on his bike for half a round and counter Lewis- and Lewis wouldn't be able to finish him off in the way a Tyson would have pounced on him.

I don't think Johnson had the skill to beat Holmes at any period. But I give you Louis, Cassius Clay and Holyfield. Holyfield would out-score him how he did in their actual fight- even though I could have scored that fight against an ageing Holmes for Holmes or at least a draw.

HOLMES HAD A STUNNER OF A RIGHT BUT IT WAS NO SLEDGEHAMMER

MARCIANO WILL ALWAYS GO THE DISTANCE MY FRIEND, THERE IS NO DISTANCE TOO FAR

LEWIS DIDNT NEED COMBOS, HE RIPPED OFF VITALI'S FACE WITH ONE SHOT, ITS ENOUGH FOR HIS STYLE

JOHNSON COULD NOT BE BEAT--HE WAS A BITCH--HE WILL FUCK YOU UP PSYCHOLOGICALLY BEFORE YOU EVEN GLOVE-UP, HE WON THE FIGHT, HE IS JACK DOWNTOWN JOHNSON AND HE WILL TAKE YOU DOWNTOWN WITH HIS FUR-HAT AND DIAMOND RING AND FUCK YOU UP THE ASS UNTIL YOU LOVE HIM. BUT TYSON SAID WHAT JOHNSON WAS THINKING BUT NEVER SAID.

I know Holmes didn't have bone-crushing power in the right hand, it was enough to dizzy you and stun you into backing off and not wanting more. Marciano would lunge forward with a few left hooks but wouldn't be able to touch Holmes with it to the point where he would get a ko.

Holmes would simply just out-score Marciano. Just like Walcott did before he got caught.

may well be. may well be. Larry at 225 pounds, 6 foot 3, 63 inch reach---Rocco at 5 foot 10, 184 pounds, 67 inch reach.......hmmmmmmm

My apologies but I have gotten tired of this myth that is Larry Holmes over the years and his default position in top 10 lists.

Larry Holmes whether by chance or premeditation had impeccable timing. He entered a division ripe for the taking. Yes he was skilled as a fighter but the fact is he was careful.
Let’s have an honest look at Mr. Holmes.

1978. He fights a Wbc eliminator with Shavers. Not only was Shavers washed up but he had just lost to Ali in a Wbc/Wba title challenge about 4 months earlier and had no business in an eliminator.

Same year he gets a fight with Norton for the title magically vacated by Ali via slime ball Don King and the Wbc who just happened to be in Dapper Don’s back pocket. Lets not forget that Norton also was extremely battle worn and just a few fights away from retirement. Holmes got the slim points win in a fight many if not most thought he lost.

He then finishes off the year with a defense over Evagelista and another against Ocasio in early 79.

He then meets Weaver who at the time had almost as many losses as he does wins and he takes Holmes to the wall before being stopped in the 12th.
Then for some odd reason Shavers gets another shot. Shavers by this time was essentially shot and he dropped Holmes prior to being stopped in the 11th.

In 1980 he goes on a run beating the likes of Zanon, Leroy Jones and Ledoux.

He caps off the year by beating up an Ali in perhaps one of the worst matchups in boxing history and is on record of saying that he did not care about Ali’s health but only the seven figure paycheck.

He starts 1981 off with a win over Berbick followed by Leon Spinks both of which could not fight their way out of a bathtub.
To end his year in 81 he takes on Snipes and struggles getting dropped in the seventh but to his credit stopped Snipes in the 11th.

The Snipes win must have changed him because should have been able to railroad a one dimensional oaf like Cooney at the start of 1982. It should have looked much like it would in his next fight with Cobb but it didn’t.

He starts 1983 off with Rodriguez and ends up going balls to the wall with young inexperienced Tim Witherspoon eking out another split win in a fight many thought he lost. He ends the year beating Frank and Marvis Frazier.

He drops the Wbc title. He did this because he had no intention of fighting Thomas, Dokes, Tubbs or Page or rematch Terrible Tim.

He has one fight in 1984 against a completely shot Bonecrusher Smith for the Ibf title and how Smith even qualified is beyond me.

In 1985 he first stops Bey and then goes on to struggle against Carl no chin Williams even though it’s scored a Ud. He then gets beat by Spinks in what was classed as the upset of the year and then gets beat by him again at the start of 1986 even though I thought he won the first fight.
Next he is ironed out by Tyson albeit being inactive for close to two years. Post 1988 he really did not do much. Beat an inexperienced Mercer, lost to a faded Holyfield and got out boxed by Oliver McCall. Not only did he skip out by dropping the WBC on prime guys like Page, Dokes etc but he never fought Young, Foreman, Frazier or even Ron Lyle. He should have also rematched Norton.

“Marciano couldn’t carry my jock strap”

Not so sure about that. It’s real easy to look like one is unstoppable when all you have been doing is beating up hasbeens and the inexperienced.

Holmes slaughters Marciano in reality.

Holmes fought a peak Holyfield close so a younger versions easily beats Evander.

get real lads.

Originally Posted by IamInuit

My apologies but I have gotten tired of this myth that is Larry Holmes over the years and his default position in top 10 lists.

Larry Holmes whether by chance or premeditation had impeccable timing. He entered a division ripe for the taking. Yes he was skilled as a fighter but the fact is he was careful.
Let’s have an honest look at Mr. Holmes.

1978. He fights a Wbc eliminator with Shavers. Not only was Shavers washed up but he had just lost to Ali in a Wbc/Wba title challenge about 4 months earlier and had no business in an eliminator.

Same year he gets a fight with Norton for the title magically vacated by Ali via slime ball Don King and the Wbc who just happened to be in Dapper Don’s back pocket. Lets not forget that Norton also was extremely battle worn and just a few fights away from retirement. Holmes got the slim points win in a fight many if not most thought he lost.

He then finishes off the year with a defense over Evagelista and another against Ocasio in early 79.

He then meets Weaver who at the time had almost as many losses as he does wins and he takes Holmes to the wall before being stopped in the 12th.
Then for some odd reason Shavers gets another shot. Shavers by this time was essentially shot and he dropped Holmes prior to being stopped in the 11th.

In 1980 he goes on a run beating the likes of Zanon, Leroy Jones and Ledoux.

He caps off the year by beating up an Ali in perhaps one of the worst matchups in boxing history and is on record of saying that he did not care about Ali’s health but only the seven figure paycheck.

He starts 1981 off with a win over Berbick followed by Leon Spinks both of which could not fight their way out of a bathtub.
To end his year in 81 he takes on Snipes and struggles getting dropped in the seventh but to his credit stopped Snipes in the 11th.

The Snipes win must have changed him because should have been able to railroad a one dimensional oaf like Cooney at the start of 1982. It should have looked much like it would in his next fight with Cobb but it didn’t.

He starts 1983 off with Rodriguez and ends up going balls to the wall with young inexperienced Tim Witherspoon eking out another split win in a fight many thought he lost. He ends the year beating Frank and Marvis Frazier.

He drops the Wbc title. He did this because he had no intention of fighting Thomas, Dokes, Tubbs or Page or rematch Terrible Tim.

He has one fight in 1984 against a completely shot Bonecrusher Smith for the Ibf title and how Smith even qualified is beyond me.

In 1985 he first stops Bey and then goes on to struggle against Carl no chin Williams even though it’s scored a Ud. He then gets beat by Spinks in what was classed as the upset of the year and then gets beat by him again at the start of 1986 even though I thought he won the first fight.
Next he is ironed out by Tyson albeit being inactive for close to two years. Post 1988 he really did not do much. Beat an inexperienced Mercer, lost to a faded Holyfield and got out boxed by Oliver McCall. Not only did he skip out by dropping the WBC on prime guys like Page, Dokes etc but he never fought Young, Foreman, Frazier or even Ron Lyle. He should have also rematched Norton.

“Marciano couldn’t carry my jock strap”

Not so sure about that. It’s real easy to look like one is unstoppable when all you have been doing is beating up hasbeens and the inexperienced.

You have go to be out of your mind. In fact, you can change the subject name to Wladimir Klitschko and the other names to the other bums/hasbeens/inexperienced guys he faced and it can stand for the same thing!

LOL....

Holmes cleaned up the old guys who refused to leave that were carry overs from the late 60's and early 70's, and he killed babies in the womb before they got to big for their britches who all went on to become champions.

Page, Dokes and Tubbs didn't fight Holmes, as it appears, because of politics. They were all WBA Champions and it all seemed odd.

Holmes would have SMOKED Dokes, Page and Cotzee. And you know it!