Thread: A couple of thoughts RE Froch - Groves

First the obvious - terrible stoppage. He wasn't that badly hurt. Maybe Froch would have got to him, maybe not, but it's bullshit Groves didn't get the chance.

Groves was never going to win against Froch without having to come through a tough patch. That was the tough patch but he never got the chance.

I don't think Froch seemed much different. Just a shade below. But Groves is genuine world class for one, and his style is all wrong for Froch.

It's not Froch's fault that it was stopped. No hate for him there. But in typical fashion his post fight interview was classless. He wouldn't have got personally booed for the stoppage if he had been just a little magnanimous.

Groves was winning well for sure, but it wasn't as one sided as people have said. I think it seemed like Froch was always in the fight and I certainly hadn't written him off.

Froch is a hard bastard getting up from that shot in round one. Most wouldn't have.

It's rematch or retire for Froch.

I couldn't understand the hate for Groves before. He always seems pretty decent. Froch on the other hand is one of the biggest hypocrites in boxing. It was great that Groves was cheered at the end. I hope he takes that onboard.

Lastly, its possible that Froch was robbed of a great comeback stoppage. People saying now that Groves 'won' but you can't say that. Just that he was winning.

Just echoing most other people here but sometimes you just have to add your voice.

Also, all that about Groves being disrespectful to Froch before was bullshit. Froch showed him no respect at all. And refusing to shake Groves' hand at the end was totally classless. Basically Groves was getting vilified for having the cheek to think he was going to win.

Originally Posted by ryanman

First the obvious - terrible stoppage. He wasn't that badly hurt. Maybe Froch would have got to him, maybe not, but it's bullshit Groves didn't get the chance.

Groves was never going to win against Froch without having to come through a tough patch. That was the tough patch but he never got the chance.

I don't think Froch seemed much different. Just a shade below. But Groves is genuine world class for one, and his style is all wrong for Froch.

It's not Froch's fault that it was stopped. No hate for him there. But in typical fashion his post fight interview was classless. He wouldn't have got personally booed for the stoppage if he had been just a little magnanimous.

Groves was winning well for sure, but it wasn't as one sided as people have said. I think it seemed like Froch was always in the fight and I certainly hadn't written him off.

Froch is a hard bastard getting up from that shot in round one. Most wouldn't have.

It's rematch or retire for Froch.

I couldn't understand the hate for Groves before. He always seems pretty decent. Froch on the other hand is one of the biggest hypocrites in boxing. It was great that Groves was cheered at the end. I hope he takes that onboard.

Lastly, its possible that Froch was robbed of a great comeback stoppage. People saying now that Groves 'won' but you can't say that. Just that he was winning.

Just echoing most other people here but sometimes you just have to add your voice.

That's true. Maybe Froch would have stopped him later on/ Maybe. We will never know. Personally I don't think he would have

Originally Posted by ryanman

Also, all that about Groves being disrespectful to Froch before was bullshit. Froch showed him no respect at all. And refusing to shake Groves' hand at the end was totally classless. Basically Groves was getting vilified for having the cheek to think he was going to win.

Why should Groves the young undefeated hungry fighter think he should beat the living legend in his own mind that is Froch?

Groves surprised me with his strength and power. I didn't think he'd be able to cope physically with Froch but for most of that fight he was the boss in every way. Froch did as Froch does, he won the fight being a right hard cunt and walking through walls to get to his man.

Real shock to see Froch properly hurt for the first time. Taylor had him over but he wasn't really hurt, he's been buzzed several times but that was the first time I can recall him being 'gone' for a moment, he legs were still going as he was calling Groves on.

It surprises me to hear people say Froch looked crap. The thing is, he looked like he always does. For someone with so much success which cant be denied he still isn't that great at any one thing other than being a hard case. Groves was mobile, smart and it amplified the fact that Froch despite the Cobra moniker is a bit of a plodder.

The stoppage I don't have as big a problem with as most. Forget about the previous 24 minutes, its irrelevant, what matters is what the referee sees at the time and what he saw I think was a guy in trouble, bent double taking several unanswered shots and neither going down or showing signs of responding to it. Have a look at the angle they showed Robert Smith, that's the one the referee got and it showed Groves taking more punches than were seen by the live action camera that we saw. People talk about Froch being more hurt in the first than Groves was in the ninth. Again its irrelevant, Froch went over, you either get up or you don't, if you do it gives the referee a clear opportunity to see what state you're in. Getting stopped on your feet the way Groves did the referee has to act in a heartbeat, he doesn't get to look into your eyes for several seconds, ask you if your OK, he has to act.

The booing bothered me. Not the booing of the decision, everyone is entitled to their opinion but in true thick as fuck boxing fan style the boos that are initially directed at the decision end up being directed at the guy who didn't in their eyes get shafted. Lennox Lewis did nothing wrong other than carve Vitali Klitschko's face up yet gets treated like a villain. Carl Froch also did nothing wrong.

I didn't listen to every word that was spoken but I saw them both talk side by side at ringside and I don't see what problem people had with what was said. After that fight they eventually had a few words and cleared the air. Anyone that all of a sudden finds that Carl Froch is a bit of a cringe worthy interviewee and a bit of an arrogant cunt you're about 31 fights too late.

If they fight again I don't see any reason why anything will be any different. Groves is too fast and too good a boxer for Froch but Froch is a hard cunt and its just a case of whether Froch can catch up with him and get him out of there.

I don't think Adam Booth being there or not made any difference whatsoever. Groves fought a great fight, as well as he could I reckon. Trying to run away from Carl Froch for a few rounds to get over the line is asking for more trouble than most can handle, Groves included.

Don't know if it's been said already but groves look off balance because Froch ran into him? His style is so crude. He is so overrated. Got slated for saying that on a thread prior the kesseller rematch. Now looks true

Originally Posted by Memphis

Groves surprised me with his strength and power. I didn't think he'd be able to cope physically with Froch but for most of that fight he was the boss in every way. Froch did as Froch does, he won the fight being a right hard cunt and walking through walls to get to his man.

Real shock to see Froch properly hurt for the first time. Taylor had him over but he wasn't really hurt, he's been buzzed several times but that was the first time I can recall him being 'gone' for a moment, he legs were still going as he was calling Groves on.

It surprises me to hear people say Froch looked crap. The thing is, he looked like he always does. For someone with so much success which cant be denied he still isn't that great at any one thing other than being a hard case. Groves was mobile, smart and it amplified the fact that Froch despite the Cobra moniker is a bit of a plodder.

The stoppage I don't have as big a problem with as most. Forget about the previous 24 minutes, its irrelevant, what matters is what the referee sees at the time and what he saw I think was a guy in trouble, bent double taking several unanswered shots and neither going down or showing signs of responding to it. Have a look at the angle they showed Robert Smith, that's the one the referee got and it showed Groves taking more punches than were seen by the live action camera that we saw. People talk about Froch being more hurt in the first than Groves was in the ninth. Again its irrelevant, Froch went over, you either get up or you don't, if you do it gives the referee a clear opportunity to see what state you're in. Getting stopped on your feet the way Groves did the referee has to act in a heartbeat, he doesn't get to look into your eyes for several seconds, ask you if your OK, he has to act.

The booing bothered me. Not the booing of the decision, everyone is entitled to their opinion but in true thick as fuck boxing fan style the boos that are initially directed at the decision end up being directed at the guy who didn't in their eyes get shafted. Lennox Lewis did nothing wrong other than carve Vitali Klitschko's face up yet gets treated like a villain. Carl Froch also did nothing wrong.

I didn't listen to every word that was spoken but I saw them both talk side by side at ringside and I don't see what problem people had with what was said. After that fight they eventually had a few words and cleared the air. Anyone that all of a sudden finds that Carl Froch is a bit of a cringe worthy interviewee and a bit of an arrogant cunt you're about 31 fights too late.

If they fight again I don't see any reason why anything will be any different. Groves is too fast and too good a boxer for Froch but Froch is a hard cunt and its just a case of whether Froch can catch up with him and get him out of there.

I don't think Adam Booth being there or not made any difference whatsoever. Groves fought a great fight, as well as he could I reckon. Trying to run away from Carl Froch for a few rounds to get over the line is asking for more trouble than most can handle, Groves included.

Agree with all of that bar the stoppage, Groves was still throwing punches as the ref moved in, def not unanswered infact he threw 4 or 5 punches back.
For me that stoppage just gets worse the more you watch it
Couple that with 2 of the scorecards which are insane and once again the darker side of the sport immediately springs to mind for me

Yeah it's kinda sounding like groves was gunna win the belts and jump ships again with a new promoter as he's out of contract with matchroom and that's jus bad for business for Eddie Hearn....

What really annoys me is that now we will simply never know.

Would Froch have knocked him down in that round and then groves got up and held on to win. Would Froch have KO'd him, would Groves have held on and battled through to the end, only to be robbed by the judges? We will never know.

It pisses me off.

Froch was getting better and Groves face was quickly getting smashed to pieces, even from a few rounds ago, so Froch obviously landed more good shots that most of us gave him credit for. Groves was looking like the worse off in terms of war wounds going into the 9th round.

Froch clearly does not want to be going anywhere near Groves again, his post fight manner has made that clear.

Funny how a fight can change things so much, present fight I was hating Groves and thought he was too cocky and annoying, post fight Froch now seems deluded and like the David Brent of boxing who we are all hoping will get found out in his next fight.

Originally Posted by Memphis

Groves surprised me with his strength and power. I didn't think he'd be able to cope physically with Froch but for most of that fight he was the boss in every way. Froch did as Froch does, he won the fight being a right hard cunt and walking through walls to get to his man.

Real shock to see Froch properly hurt for the first time. Taylor had him over but he wasn't really hurt, he's been buzzed several times but that was the first time I can recall him being 'gone' for a moment, he legs were still going as he was calling Groves on.

It surprises me to hear people say Froch looked crap. The thing is, he looked like he always does. For someone with so much success which cant be denied he still isn't that great at any one thing other than being a hard case. Groves was mobile, smart and it amplified the fact that Froch despite the Cobra moniker is a bit of a plodder.

The stoppage I don't have as big a problem with as most. Forget about the previous 24 minutes, its irrelevant, what matters is what the referee sees at the time and what he saw I think was a guy in trouble, bent double taking several unanswered shots and neither going down or showing signs of responding to it. Have a look at the angle they showed Robert Smith, that's the one the referee got and it showed Groves taking more punches than were seen by the live action camera that we saw. People talk about Froch being more hurt in the first than Groves was in the ninth. Again its irrelevant, Froch went over, you either get up or you don't, if you do it gives the referee a clear opportunity to see what state you're in. Getting stopped on your feet the way Groves did the referee has to act in a heartbeat, he doesn't get to look into your eyes for several seconds, ask you if your OK, he has to act.

The booing bothered me. Not the booing of the decision, everyone is entitled to their opinion but in true thick as fuck boxing fan style the boos that are initially directed at the decision end up being directed at the guy who didn't in their eyes get shafted. Lennox Lewis did nothing wrong other than carve Vitali Klitschko's face up yet gets treated like a villain. Carl Froch also did nothing wrong.

I didn't listen to every word that was spoken but I saw them both talk side by side at ringside and I don't see what problem people had with what was said. After that fight they eventually had a few words and cleared the air. Anyone that all of a sudden finds that Carl Froch is a bit of a cringe worthy interviewee and a bit of an arrogant cunt you're about 31 fights too late.

If they fight again I don't see any reason why anything will be any different. Groves is too fast and too good a boxer for Froch but Froch is a hard cunt and its just a case of whether Froch can catch up with him and get him out of there.

I don't think Adam Booth being there or not made any difference whatsoever. Groves fought a great fight, as well as he could I reckon. Trying to run away from Carl Froch for a few rounds to get over the line is asking for more trouble than most can handle, Groves included.

Agree with much of this but not the bit in bold. The action leading up to a stoppage should and does affect the decision. For instance if a fighter has been bashed around for 9 rounds, been down 3 times, is not going to win and then gets rocked, the ref would more likely step in to prevent further punishment. That definitely happens a lot and we say 'good stoppage'.
Likewise, if someone has dominated the fight and hasn't been badly hurt previously refs will generally give them time to get through the bad patch. It's right really. The ref should be making the best judgement they can with all of the available evidence - this includes the fight up to that point.

Froch did an interview on Sky and he came across really well and humble. I take it back, he said groves should be proud of what he did in the ring and that he is willing to accept the rematch.

Originally Posted by Master

Froch did an interview on Sky and he came across really well and humble. I take it back, he said groves should be proud of what he did in the ring and that he is willing to accept the rematch.

His people probably advised him that it would be better to tone it down after seeing him come off as a total cunt in earlier interviews. It was damage control.. an act to save face and regain fans..

Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita

Originally Posted by Master

Froch did an interview on Sky and he came across really well and humble. I take it back, he said groves should be proud of what he did in the ring and that he is willing to accept the rematch.

His people probably advised him that it would be better to tone it down after seeing him come off as a total cunt in earlier interviews. It was damage control.. an act to save face and regain fans..

Exactly. The Hearns would have been on the phone explaining that you made yourself look like a total classless cunt, we've got an team from Sky coming to see you to do an interview and this is what you say. It'll have killed Froch to say it. His real reaction you saw after the fight when he couldn't bring himself to talk to Groves and the whole thing nearly kicked off in the ring. That's the real Froch.

Paddy Power have priced up the rematch and have Froch the 2/5 fave. Groves is 9/5. Pretty shocked by that.
I will be putting a wedge on Groves.