Thread: What can GGG's next opponent learn from Martin Murray?

What are your thoughts: ?

1. It looked like whenever Murray backed GGG up/threw 3 or 4-punch combinations, that GGG sort of hesitated/froze. In those moments, GGG did not look too hard to hit.

2. Whenever Murray stopped moving and went straight back to the ropes, GGG just let a barrage loose.

3. Whenever Murray's gloves were up around his face and he was in a defensive shell, GGG blasted the sh*t out of him.

4. Whenever Murray used some lateral movement/circled to his left, it temporarily stalled/stifled GGG's attack, and took him out of the danger zone for a few moments.

That GGG is human and that they need to get a bigger ring so they can try and outbox him.

GGG does not counter punch, like ever. He either defends or attacks.

GGGs reactions are below world class. But his chin/power/offensive technique are tremendous.

If you don't have the punching power to make him respect you (like Lemieux) then he's just going to walk in and maul you. He throws too many punches and hits too hard to think you're going to outfight him or outrun him. You need a guy like Ward who has the speed and skill to hit him from the outside and fie him up and nullify him on the inside.

totally agree with all yous guys. GGG IMO is not what he seems. He can be outboxed, outfoxed, and/or knocked the fuck out by an aggressive warrior. Murray was told after Round 8: "You gotta knock him out! Hit him! Hit him!' but Murray didn't fight like a desperate wild animal who needed a KO. GGG will eat guys up who fight like that.

Lemieux would get smashed into mash.

I agree with Brockton. It's exactly the same thing with Abraham. Either attack or defend. It amazed me how much Murray and Smith allowed them self's to be trapped in the ropes. For all the other decent things they were doing, to literally throw it all way by like that, is just absurd.

Yes both were incredibly brave but bloody foolish.

And for the record, I still think AA gives GGG his toughest nights work if not beats him. He has better defence, faster hands and a commanding jab.

I also thought that he didn't show that he knows how to fight in clinches. Someone like Ward, who uses the clinch to his advantage frequently, would give him problems.

Another thing is that his defense is underrated. He doesn't get hit cleanly often. His use of range is very good too.

He also makes adjustments during the course of the fight well. Some of the things that Murray did well in the beginning of the fight, GGG took away from him later in the fight.

I'm surprised to see people saying GGGs defense is underrated. I think it is getting worse. Repeatedly in this fight he was hit before he saw the punch, usually the right hook. Sometimes the jab. A good defensive fighter gets hit but they see the punch.

I think GGG is getting close to making the classic mistake of falling in love with his power. I think his offense is dynamic but his defense is getting significantly worse.

Originally Posted by Ron Swanson

I'm surprised to see people saying GGGs defense is underrated. I think it is getting worse. Repeatedly in this fight he was hit before he saw the punch, usually the right hook. Sometimes the jab. A good defensive fighter gets hit but they see the punch.

I think GGG is getting close to making the classic mistake of falling in love with his power. I think his offense is dynamic but his defense is getting significantly worse.

I couldn't disagree more. GGG is very effective at parrying punches and taking something off them with his gloves, shoulders, elbows or by "riding" the punch/slipping it. He was caught early with some looping right hands, but he seemed to tighten his defense up a little and punished Murray to get him to stop throwing them. Murray was a solid world class fighter, as was Geale. GGG destroyed those guys and didn't look marked up in the face at all, so either he is EXTREMELY durable, or he is better defensively than you are giving him credit for. Julio Caesar Chavez was similar in that he was a stalker who was very adept at slipping and parrying shots while breaking guys down behind a heavy jab and beautiful combos. GGG is probably the best fighter today at cutting the ring off (Cotto is good also when he remembers to/wants to). Very effective and BRUTAL fighter.

I think a fascinating match up would be a prime James Toney vs. GGG. James fights his best vs. aggressive guys, and GGG fights like a harder punching (P4P) and more skilled version of Vassily Jirov, one of Toney's best fights/performances. You need a total package, large middleweight like Toney to beat GGG. If you have any glaring weakness GGG will exploit it and use it to break you down. If you have limited power he will walk you down and just pound you out. If you have a big punch but limited boxing ability he will break you down behind the jab, as he did with Curtis Stevens. Toney would have the defense, chin, power, size/length and skills to hang with GGG and give him a great challenge. Toney was a bit inconsistent throughout his career during fights, often taking rounds off due to laziness. Would this be the flaw GGG could take advantage of, or would James punish him with his jab and counters to take the fight late?

Originally Posted by mikeeod

I think a fascinating match up would be a prime James Toney vs. GGG. James fights his best vs. aggressive guys, and GGG fights like a harder punching (P4P) and more skilled version of Vassily Jirov, one of Toney's best fights/performances. You need a total package, large middleweight like Toney to beat GGG. If you have any glaring weakness GGG will exploit it and use it to break you down. If you have limited power he will walk you down and just pound you out. If you have a big punch but limited boxing ability he will break you down behind the jab, as he did with Curtis Stevens. Toney would have the defense, chin, power, size/length and skills to hang with GGG and give him a great challenge. Toney was a bit inconsistent throughout his career during fights, often taking rounds off due to laziness. Would this be the flaw GGG could take advantage of, or would James punish him with his jab and counters to take the fight late?

This^^^^^^

Both Geale and Murray are not big hitters. Murray has a very rounded game otherwise, but people suggesting that he somehow decided to stay on the ropes have missed what was in front of them.Golovkin dictates the pace by controlling the space.

The pressure is constant, he won't let you take a breather. Fighters can't push him onto the back foot because he won't let them. To get your own punches off you need space but you also need time. He will mix it up so that yes sometimes he gets caught by punching with you, but usually before you, or in the gap when you are trying to set your feet and readjust. He has such a varied arsenal that he will hit you through gaps you never thought were there or in places you thought were unreachable. Great defence? He will breach it. Great offense? He will read it and make you miss and punish you.

Originally Posted by Greenbeanz

Originally Posted by mikeeod

I think a fascinating match up would be a prime James Toney vs. GGG. James fights his best vs. aggressive guys, and GGG fights like a harder punching (P4P) and more skilled version of Vassily Jirov, one of Toney's best fights/performances. You need a total package, large middleweight like Toney to beat GGG. If you have any glaring weakness GGG will exploit it and use it to break you down. If you have limited power he will walk you down and just pound you out. If you have a big punch but limited boxing ability he will break you down behind the jab, as he did with Curtis Stevens. Toney would have the defense, chin, power, size/length and skills to hang with GGG and give him a great challenge. Toney was a bit inconsistent throughout his career during fights, often taking rounds off due to laziness. Would this be the flaw GGG could take advantage of, or would James punish him with his jab and counters to take the fight late?

This^^^^^^

Both Geale and Murray are not big hitters. Murray has a very rounded game otherwise, but people suggesting that he somehow decided to stay on the ropes have missed what was in front of them.Golovkin dictates the pace by controlling the space.

The pressure is constant, he won't let you take a breather. Fighters can't push him onto the back foot because he won't let them. To get your own punches off you need space but you also need time. He will mix it up so that yes sometimes he gets caught by punching with you, but usually before you, or in the gap when you are trying to set your feet and readjust. He has such a varied arsenal that he will hit you through gaps you never thought were there or in places you thought were unreachable. Great defence? He will breach it. Great offense? He will read it and make you miss and punish you.

I agree about the gaps. This guy throws punches from very odd angles and threads the needle through a weird/diagonal kind of gap that most fighters I imagine are not thinking of; for me as a spectator I am weirdly surprised everytime he throws that odd, downward left hook through that gap. Ouch! And landing it on the top of the forehead --- jeesh! Seems it could crush a small vertebrae in the neck or something.

Originally Posted by mikeeod

Originally Posted by Ron Swanson

I'm surprised to see people saying GGGs defense is underrated. I think it is getting worse. Repeatedly in this fight he was hit before he saw the punch, usually the right hook. Sometimes the jab. A good defensive fighter gets hit but they see the punch.

I think GGG is getting close to making the classic mistake of falling in love with his power. I think his offense is dynamic but his defense is getting significantly worse.

I couldn't disagree more. GGG is very effective at parrying punches and taking something off them with his gloves, shoulders, elbows or by "riding" the punch/slipping it. He was caught early with some looping right hands, but he seemed to tighten his defense up a little and punished Murray to get him to stop throwing them. Murray was a solid world class fighter, as was Geale. GGG destroyed those guys and didn't look marked up in the face at all, so either he is EXTREMELY durable, or he is better defensively than you are giving him credit for. Julio Caesar Chavez was similar in that he was a stalker who was very adept at slipping and parrying shots while breaking guys down behind a heavy jab and beautiful combos. GGG is probably the best fighter today at cutting the ring off (Cotto is good also when he remembers to/wants to). Very effective and BRUTAL fighter.

He was caught flush later in the fight too. And he flinched after the punches landed which is a clear sign he didn't see them. It didn't matter in this fight because they had nothing on them but keep an eye on it. His defense used to be better. He's focusing too much on his attack and it might get him in trouble. If he fights someone closer to his level.

Originally Posted by Ron Swanson

I'm surprised to see people saying GGGs defense is underrated. I think it is getting worse. Repeatedly in this fight he was hit before he saw the punch, usually the right hook. Sometimes the jab. A good defensive fighter gets hit but they see the punch.

I think GGG is getting close to making the classic mistake of falling in love with his power. I think his offense is dynamic but his defense is getting significantly worse.

Getting significantly worse does not mean that he doesn't have good defense or that his defense is underrated. I agree with you that Murray had more success than previous opponents have had against GGG. But, he's only known as an offensive dynamo, which he is, but he's also a great at some defensive maneuvers. For one, I think he does a great job parrying shots. He also does a great job blocking shots on his arms and moving safely into and out of striking distance. Thus, his defense is underrated.