Thread: Why Joshua will *KNOCK OUT* Klitschko

From the looks of Wladimir in his last fight, it wasn't just an "off night" and it wasn't just the "unorthodox" Fury that befuddled and stifled him, it was Father Time. If great men like Joe Louis, JJ Walcott, Larry Holmes and Muhammad Ali COULD NOT FIGHT PAST 37-38, then what we all saw was a shell of his former self in Wlad in his last outing who will NO LONGER BE ABLE to fight like once could. Furthermore the muscular AJ will be impossible to "octopus tie up" for Wlad. While he was raining straight punches on his opponents they could never tie him up, his shoulders are too big. So Wlad will be in open punching mode with no chance to grab 'n rest to help him last 12. His best shit is to catch the untested AJ early with Big Kiev Power, put him to sleep fast.

If Klitschko tries to fight this fight like business as usual he will have a very unpleasant surprise and it may take him 15 minutes to wake up. I call a 5th round knock out here and I'm in a Stone Cold Steve Austin knockout

The argument about getting older is a compelling one, and we may find out whether or not it is true in a few months, but I think the eras are different, and the differences in training, nutrition and self-preservation at the top level mean sportsmen across the board are having longer careers. Apart from in Lawn Bowls, where older bowlers are retiring earlier, say in their 60s instead of in their 70s.

I already think Joshua has a good chance, he's fairly quick and should be able to test that jaw a few times. Once glass has broken, you can't really glue it back together properly.

The adage a good little fighter isn't good enough to beat a good big fighter, and a good boxer isn't good enough to beat a good puncher. A good older fighter isn't good enough to beat a good young fighter is the philosophy of boxing.

Originally Posted by red fox

The adage a good little fighter isn't good enough to beat a good big fighter, and a good boxer isn't good enough to beat a good puncher. A good older fighter isn't good enough to beat a good young fighter is the philosophy of boxing.

What about Hopkins vs Trinidad? Big George vs Moorer? I think that there is more to that than just "a good old can't beat a good young".

You've got to give Wlad credit, he's pushing 40 going back to back against two of the brightest young powers in heavyweight boxing. One a massive dopey mind fuck merchant with lots of underrated skill, the next an out and out wrecking machine. He deserves props for that.

Firstly Joshua has his hands full too, lets not ignore that. In terms of skill and experience Wlad represents a massive jump in class, over the hill or not. The thing is though, regardless of how skilled or experienced Wlad is it wont change what Joshua does one bit. He'll have a look for a minute but ultimately he'll be looking to take Wlads head off at the first opportunity. He'll be under more pressure, but he wont change.

The issue for Wlad is that other than tying up, his only form of defence is stepping back and waiting until it stops. Attacking Wlad is a relatively low risk task, especially now that he's clearly lost a bit of zip all round, I think we can all agree on that. Fury knew this, and used it against him brilliantly by feinting Wlad out of the fight, if Wlad thinks there's incoming, he doesnt punch back. Wlad also now seems to need a written invitation to let the right hand go. His jab has become more of a tap than the ram rod it should be. When Joshua lets fly, Wlad will do nothing other than move back and wait for it to be over, he's incapable of punishing him for it.

Offensively Wlad is capable of knocking Joshua out, he has the tools and the power, but he seems unable or reluctant to use them. Joshua's chin can be cracked, we all know that and if Wlad summons up a demon right cross from the vaults of muscle memory and it lands on Joshua's chin, dont be surprised if he goes to bye byes.

I think the odds are unlikely. Wlads overriding sense of self preservation and his loss of a half step mean that his once brilliant right hand is now a shadow of its former self. He's like a stone mason splitting a large block. Rather than systematically driving his sledge hammer into his breaking pins he lifts it, lets it fall under no force other than gravity, waits a while, then when the moment is right, repeats.

Unless Joshua freezes, Wlads plan A wont get the job done for me. There will just be too much leather coming in his direction. Wlad is going to have to change, and change big. He will have to fight fire with fire and ignore his predisposition with self preservation. He'll need to be ready for war and give back with interest what Joshua can throw his way. He'll also need to fully commit to his punches, no pity pat stuff.

The good news for Wlad is that Joshua will be a far more static target than Fury. I dont go along with the robot line, but he wont be like a jack in the box, constantly on the move and constantly giving the impression that he's going to punch, Im not sure if Joshua does feints? Joshua will be there to hit and if Wlad can muster up the gumption he will have a target. The big question is can he, or more importantly will he?

I just dont know if Wlad has it in him at this stage.

Originally Posted by Nameless

Originally Posted by red fox

The adage a good little fighter isn't good enough to beat a good big fighter, and a good boxer isn't good enough to beat a good puncher. A good older fighter isn't good enough to beat a good young fighter is the philosophy of boxing.

What about Hopkins vs Trinidad? Big George vs Moorer? I think that there is more to that than just "a good old can't beat a good young".

Moorer wasn't a natural heavyweight and was beating Foreman and Hopkins was 6'2 to Trinidad's 5'11 and had a 2 1/2 reach advantage.

Remind me again what we saw in Wlads last fight that would convince me he can cope with speed, pop and sheer momentum of Joshua Wlads on and off dates with Fury were as hard to watch as their actual fight. Long road back. Massive jump up for Joshua though. Stage wise and comp wise. Thinking Joshua pulls a shocker and walks right thru him honestly.

Originally Posted by red fox

Moorer wasn't a natural heavyweight and was beating Foreman and Hopkins was 6'2 to Trinidad's 5'11 and had a 2 1/2 reach advantage.

Alright then....Hopkins vs Pavlik, Hopkins vs Cloud, Hopkins vs Pascal?



Wlad has the edge in experience and that's about it, he knows the game and he knows what he can and can't do and sometimes that knowledge gives the fighter an edge. Do I expect Wlad to come out and be the Wlad of old, dominating with the jab, tying up, slowly opening Joshua up for the right hand....not especially. Wlad is older, not sure if he's slower or has lost his timing but he's going to have to be crafty and keep Joshua thinking and THAT is something he can do.


Anthony Joshua is big, bad, he's tough, he's strong, and he's young. Lots of these kinds of fighters see somebody older and they want to peg them, the guy does xyz watch out for that and you'll be ok, you'll walk right through them. Anthony Joshua isn't experienced, he doesn't know what to do when he's hurt in a huge fight like this....Wlad does, Wlad will get back up if he's able to stand, and he'll hold on for dear life and then it's back to jab jab jab jab let me get back in this fight the way he did with Sam Peter.


Wlad will have to try not to be so clever he walks into a trap Anthony has set for him and Anthony will have to avoid hubris....be humble or be humbled.


I think it's a great fight the future of the division could swing on this and regardless of who wins I think they will be the true champion of the division. I hope Wlad wins as always, but this is one where he will be battling the odds. People expecting a slugfest shouldn't go watch the fight though, it's going to be more of a chess match I would assume....the later the fight goes the more advantage I'd give to Wlad.



I'm going to go out on a limb and say Wlad TKO 9.....Anthony Joshua is too tight in his upper body and it'll sap his energy

GREAT BLACK FIGHTERS IN THERE PRIME NEVER LOSE TO WHITE FIGHTERS

Tell me when I'm lying ?

I challenge anyone to point to more than 1 example (And you can even have non-heavyweights) were this has been the case


Black heavyweight fighters are cleaning house.

Soon enough there won't be any white fighter at the top of the tree in the heavyweight div and that's the way it pretty much always has been. So back to normality.

Originally Posted by denilson200

GREAT BLACK FIGHTERS IN THERE PRIME NEVER LOSE TO WHITE FIGHTERS

Tell me when I'm lying ?

I challenge anyone to point to more than 1 example (And you can even have non-heavyweights) were this has been the case


Black heavyweight fighters are cleaning house.

Soon enough there won't be any white fighter at the top of the tree in the heavyweight div and that's the way it pretty much always has been. So back to normality.

Joshua is neither great, nor in his prime.

Cute post though.

Originally Posted by denilson200

GREAT BLACK FIGHTERS IN THERE PRIME NEVER LOSE TO WHITE FIGHTERS

Tell me when I'm lying ?

I challenge anyone to point to more than 1 example (And you can even have non-heavyweights) were this has been the case


Black heavyweight fighters are cleaning house.

Soon enough there won't be any white fighter at the top of the tree in the heavyweight div and that's the way it pretty much always has been. So back to normality.

Seriously why post this? We have gone through this already. I would advise everyone to ignore this post. next time it will be deleted.

I don't buy the age argument. A 40-year old HW can't be compared to a 40-year old MW or lower. Speed and reflexes go before power does, and no division relies more on power than the HW's. Why else have we seen these old, fat "has-beens" stage comebacks in the hopes of getting more paydays? Have we ever seen that in the lower divisions? No. Also, Wlad remains a fit, relatively unscathed physical specimen. His KTFO losses were years ago, and the only thing that remains from those isn't physical damage, but rather psychological, in the sense that his style has morphed into an ugly one.

In a sense, Lyle is right when he says Wlad has lasted so long because he's managed to escape the perils of toe-to-toe exchanges.
It's given him durability, but unfortunately it's been hell on his popularity, at least in this side of the boxing world.

I'd like for you to be right, Brock. I'd love for Wlad to get KTFO'ed by AJ. I'd love for AJ to force Wlad's hand and not allow any shenanigans like he pulled against Povetkin. But the sheer difference in experience worries me. Wlad is an old fox, and knows full well the power of AJ. Wlad will do everything in his power to avoid any shot whatsoever, and will use every trick in the book... regardless of how ugly the fight might turn out to be.

Originally Posted by TitoFan

I don't buy the age argument. A 40-year old HW can't be compared to a 40-year old MW or lower. Speed and reflexes go before power does, and no division relies more on power than the HW's. Why else have we seen these old, fat "has-beens" stage comebacks in the hopes of getting more paydays? Have we ever seen that in the lower divisions? No. Also, Wlad remains a fit, relatively unscathed physical specimen. His KTFO losses were years ago, and the only thing that remains from those isn't physical damage, but rather psychological, in the sense that his style has morphed into an ugly one.

In a sense, Lyle is right when he says Wlad has lasted so long because he's managed to escape the perils of toe-to-toe exchanges.
It's given him durability, but unfortunately it's been hell on his popularity, at least in this side of the boxing world.

I'd like for you to be right, Brock. I'd love for Wlad to get KTFO'ed by AJ. I'd love for AJ to force Wlad's hand and not allow any shenanigans like he pulled against Povetkin. But the sheer difference in experience worries me. Wlad is an old fox, and knows full well the power of AJ. Wlad will do everything in his power to avoid any shot whatsoever, and will use every trick in the book... regardless of how ugly the fight might turn out to be.

If I'm honest, this perspective is part of what makes it such an interesting fight for me. Does the experience and wiley ways of Klitschko win out over the young and powerful champion? Personally, I think Joshua will be strong enough to get through often enough to win. And I think he will be working with as many awkward tall heavies as he can over the next few months on techniques to stop them from latching on. Will be very interesting whichever way it goes, even if its a cagey affair for a while.

Originally Posted by superheavyrhun

Originally Posted by TitoFan

I don't buy the age argument. A 40-year old HW can't be compared to a 40-year old MW or lower. Speed and reflexes go before power does, and no division relies more on power than the HW's. Why else have we seen these old, fat "has-beens" stage comebacks in the hopes of getting more paydays? Have we ever seen that in the lower divisions? No. Also, Wlad remains a fit, relatively unscathed physical specimen. His KTFO losses were years ago, and the only thing that remains from those isn't physical damage, but rather psychological, in the sense that his style has morphed into an ugly one.

In a sense, Lyle is right when he says Wlad has lasted so long because he's managed to escape the perils of toe-to-toe exchanges.
It's given him durability, but unfortunately it's been hell on his popularity, at least in this side of the boxing world.

I'd like for you to be right, Brock. I'd love for Wlad to get KTFO'ed by AJ. I'd love for AJ to force Wlad's hand and not allow any shenanigans like he pulled against Povetkin. But the sheer difference in experience worries me. Wlad is an old fox, and knows full well the power of AJ. Wlad will do everything in his power to avoid any shot whatsoever, and will use every trick in the book... regardless of how ugly the fight might turn out to be.

If I'm honest, this perspective is part of what makes it such an interesting fight for me. Does the experience and wiley ways of Klitschko win out over the young and powerful champion? Personally, I think Joshua will be strong enough to get through often enough to win. And I think he will be working with as many awkward tall heavies as he can over the next few months on techniques to stop them from latching on. Will be very interesting whichever way it goes, even if its a cagey affair for a while.

Yes Tito, I do think though that Wlad is generally gun-shy and has never fought a straight forward puncher---Fury was a backpeddling clown just mugging and smiling and twitching with coke-residue, never came straight at Wlad. AJ is a straight ahead punching machhine from the little Ive seen, straight ahead, he doesnt take a step back, HELL HE MAKES WILDER LOOK LIKE A BOXER if you think about it. Wlad aint gonna do so good against AJ.

Dear Wlad,

Wrong fight. Wrong time of your career.

Regards,

Steve

p.s. @walrus

Originally Posted by denilson200

GREAT BLACK FIGHTERS IN THERE PRIME NEVER LOSE TO WHITE FIGHTERS

Tell me when I'm lying ?

I challenge anyone to point to more than 1 example (And you can even have non-heavyweights) were this has been the case


Black heavyweight fighters are cleaning house.

Soon enough there won't be any white fighter at the top of the tree in the heavyweight div and that's the way it pretty much always has been. So back to normality.

You are a clown. Why bring race into it like you do with almost every other thread.