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I have just come back from my first coaching session and have just been going through the basics/techniques etc which I have found all well and good.
One thing that has confused me somewhat is the coach has said when jabbing, your front leg (orthodox) DOESN'T bend as you throw the punch - this just doesn't feel comfortable to me. Maybe I am missing the point or doing it wrong but can someone explain to me what your front foot/leg should be doing during this punch?
Just want to add I done martial arts as a lad (ages 6-17) so I probably have a few bad habits and why certain things feel a bit 'uncomfortable' at first.
Don't take it as the Ultimate truth, but i think when jabbing: you should be on the balls of your feet and you SHOULD BEND your FRONT KNEE, definitely. It gives BALANCE and sets up perfectly the Right Hand.
Again, see what the other members will say in this forum, some people with more experience in the sweet science.
Theres an old saying, I heard it 52 years ago. It applies just as much now as it did then. Bend your knees before the other guy bends them for you. ;D
koppas if you could give us a little more info on the jab technique being taught to you it might help ppl on here help you. For example does he have you on the balls of your feet or does he have you stepping with the jab ect.....
Sorry good point.Quote:
Originally Posted by cambay411
This is a standing jab, on the ball of my back foot...
I believe that you (or your coach) means that your front knee should not bend MORE during the jab.
The knees are never locked so in some sense they are always bent slightly when boxing, and from the context it seemed clear to me that your coach was discouraging you from bending your front knee more, especially more than the back leg bends at the same time.
This is generally the way jabs initially are taught: You keep you weight slightly back on the rear foot (maybe 60-40) and throw the punch with no forward lean and without dropping forward. The power comes from the arm, shoulder, the turning of your core (the shoulders move more parallel to the line of the punch), and perhaps a little bit of hip.
Dempsey distinguishes his "left jolt" from the "left jab" in that he does take weight off of his forward leg (transferring it into the hand and perhaps into the non-intuitive rear foot as well).
Almost few (or no) coaches (as far as I can tell) teach the Dempsey method; and in my opinion practically no one really understands what Dempsey was actually recommending. (Of course for that last to be true it requires that *I* actually understand Dempsey's method.)
While it is arguable that Dempey's jolt is better or more powerful, there is nothing "wrong" with the standard jab technique and it should be learned. Even with Dempsey's Jolt in at your disposal you want to develop a full arsenal of quality punches.
Once a boxer can throw a good solid jab with power and without disturbing his own balance, then he learns to move while throwing it.
Of necessity if you are moving toward your front foot (forward or left foot for orthodox boxers) you must of course bend you rknee to move that foot, but it is brief and is immediately followed by the rear foot closing up to maintain the proper stance -- and note, the bending of the knee for movement has little or nothing to do with the PUNCH, but is done for the MOVEMENT.
There are also methods of punching where BOTH knees are bent on impact to add "dropping power" -- as far as I can tell these are not taught (by many) in boxing. Here both knees are bent at the punch is about to contact, but they are both bent approximately equally. This is like a small vertical back "duck" (and it can accomplish that too) where the force of gravity helps drive the punch into your opponent, usually his mid-section.
For now, learn to first jab while adjusting only enough to maintain good rearward balance. BUT do not that rearward does not mean leaning back at all -- you must be up on your rear toes as least some, at least the way that they press on the floor to avoid being driven backwards, so this 'rearward' just means you have a little more weight on the back foot so that your front foot is relatively free.
Of course, I could be full of it. <grin>
Cheers HerbM, great advice as ever. :) I think you got it spot on about not bending MORE when jabbing as he kept telling me 'not to bend' but you obviously need to have a slight bend in your front leg otherwise you wouldn't get the reach.
Yes, and in fact I almost never have my legs straightened fully for anything -- perhaps with momentary exceptions and I am not even sure about that.Quote:
Originally Posted by koppas
Even soldiers standing at attention don't actually fully lock out the knee -- doing this leads to passing out when at attention for long periods, and at best makes it difficult to move when ordered to turn or march.
[Thanks for the reputation points as well.]
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HerbM
Koppas, ask your coach if he can elaborate.
Anyway, I think that a common mistake is when a fighter attempts to extend their reach by lunging like a fencer. It's a big risk. When your weight is shifted forward, and your front knee is sharply bent, it's hard for you to recover your stance quickly, let alone mount a proper defense in the nick of time. Even if you're doing it to a lesser degree, you're still compromising balance and movement. Moreover, you'd also be absorbing more force when you're leaning into the shots.
The key point should bend your knees, just not so much that you're leaning forward like what Herb was getting at. You can't make your arms longer.
Also, you're knees must bend more when you're changing levels, i.e. going to the body. For If you don't bend your knees when you jab to the body, for 1, you're open, and 2, your punch won't be as solid. As a good rule of thumb, your punches should be on level with your shoulder.
So, try to ask your trainer what they mean by that. Either way, you'll get to bottom of it. You'll know what there reasoning is (or lack there of), and be able to make up your own mind.
Thanks for the advice mate. Am seeing my coach Monday so will elaborate then was just curious thinking about it the other day when I was practising on my heavy bag. As I said before, dont' want bad habits from my martial arts experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Nagel
I (finally) got to thinking and wonder in what specific way you would be 'bending your front knee' in martial arts, and what art that is.Quote:
Originally Posted by koppas
Please describe the method you are referencing....
(There are supposedly things in various 'karate' styles that were taught by the originators SPECIFICALLY to mess up their enemies or outsiders -- I have heard this multiple times from people I respect to know such things even if its not something confirmed by me personally.)
I am thinking specifically of various front stance (bow stance) punching techniques and there may be others.
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HerbM
I'll be confusing myself Herb. ;D I am just going to take the great advice on this thread, take it to the gym next week and go from there.
Thanks to you both.
You can bend your front knee as much as you like, only make sure the back one is the same angle. Otherwise the head moves the shoulders are out of line, balance and stability is lost.