Toney's Future RING MAGAZINE ONLINE
FOR TONEY, THE BIGGER PICTURE NOT A PRETTY ONE
By William Dettloff
In the bigger picture, it doesn’t matter that the great majority of ringside press, Showtime’s Al Bernstein, most of the fans in attendance at the Staples Center, and one of the official judges, thought James Toney beat Sam Peter on Saturday night. (For the record, I did too off TV, by a score of 116-112.) In the bigger picture, it matters not one bit.
What matters? That it was close at all. Given the kind of fighter Toney is and the kind of fighter Peter is, it should have been a shutout. Though Peter looked better than he did against Wladimir Klitschko, he remains mostly just a puncher—just the kind of guy Toney should dominate.
That Toney didn’t dominate, that it was close enough so that one could reasonably make a case for Peter having won it, tells you all you need to know about James Nathaniel Toney’s future as a top heavyweight: There isn’t one.
That’s not to say that, even at 38 years old, Toney can’t still beat some heavyweights. Clearly he can. But if he can’t dominate Peter—and he didn’t—he is beyond the point at which he should be trying. Peter’s style was made for him and when you can’t lick outright the guy you would have chosen if you could draw it up yourself, well, there’s a problem.
You could argue it was Toney’s style that hurt him here, that he’s so subtle and slick that aesthetically he was no match for Peter’s thunderous roundhouses. (Pernell Whitaker had the same problem.) But it’s always been that way for Toney—going all the way back.
Look at his record: Split decision win over Reggie Johnson. A draw and a majority win over Mike McCallum. Close points losses to Montell Griffin (twice) and Drake Thadzi, close decision win over Dave Tiberi. The draw with Hasim Rahman. Of the bigger fights, only the loss to Roy Jones was by a wide margin. The other exception is his win over Vassiliy Jirov, which, ironically, should have been scored close but wasn’t.
This should have been the fight in which none of that mattered, because Peter should have had a hell of a hard time landing. He didn’t. He tagged Toney hard and clean, and for the first time in 20 years, we saw Toney hurt, badly, at least twice.
That’s what matters. Not that Toney lost a decision that could have gone either way. Big deal. It matters that two years ago those overhand rights from Peter don’t land. They don’t come close. A lot of them landed flush on Saturday night and that means Toney’s now getting hit by very big guys who shouldn’t be able to hit him.
If Peter can hit Toney cleanly, then just about anyone can. For a guy who’s made his living making other guys miss, that’s very bad news indeed.
Some miscellaneous observations on the week’s festivities:
More bad news for Toney: I understood about every fifth word during his postfight rant. Get an old tape and listen to how different he sounds. And don’t tell me it’s because he smokes cigars. George Burns never slurred.
I wonder if in a couple weeks Eric Aiken is going to feel good about the decision he made on Saturday night.
Add Gary Ritter to the painfully short list of referees who aren’t interested in becoming TV stars. Ritter sends fighters back to their corners with a simple, “Touch gloves and let’s have a good fight.” Good for him.
At the opposite end of the scale is the otherwise competent Jack Reiss, whose commandment to “Fight hard and fight clean” is another gimmicky attempt by a referee to make himself part of the show. Attention all referees: It’s not about you. It’s about the fighters. If you want a job where you’re the center of attention, go get one and leave the fighters alone.
Where the hell is Brian Kenny?
Of course I agreed when Larry Holmes said Courtney Burton should retire after Emanuel Augustus stopped him, but Larry—weren’t you like, 74 years old when you fought Butterbean?
Former Contenders Alfonso Gomez and Sergio Mora both looked excellent against Carson Jones and Eric Regan, respectively. Especially Mora, who overcame what I think wasn’t the best style matchup for him and still did a solid job.
Bill Dettloff can be contacted at dettloff@ptd.net.
The Ring Update Archives
Re: Toney's Future RING MAGAZINE ONLINE
took out some contendor stuff that I did not mean to post. hopefully no one read it who didn't want to
Re: Toney's Future RING MAGAZINE ONLINE
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxingGorilla
More bad news for Toney: I understood about every fifth word during his postfight rant. Get an old tape and listen to how different he sounds. And don’t tell me it’s because he smokes cigars. George Burns never slurred.
I feel validated, now that ring magizine thought something was wrong too.
Re: Toney's Future RING MAGAZINE ONLINE
Cheers for the read but it was a shite article.
The writer completely contradicts himself, saying that Toney should give up because he couldn't dominate an inferior boxer who threw huge punches, then in the next breath says that Toney has ALWAYS had this problem and so did the great Pernell Whitaker. ???
So does he think Toney should have retired when he lost to McCallum or Griffin? ???
Secondly he says Toney should have dominated and shouldn't have been hit by Peter. Well apart from Wladimir EVERYONE else has lost to Peter, most by knockout. Wlad was put on his a** 3 TIMES by Peter, guess he should retire immediately as well then ::**
The fact is Toney won the fight at the weekend, his boxing skills were superior, he outlanded Peter and his shots were far crisper and more accurate.
This dumbass writer says that Toney should have been able to dominate due to his boxing skills, but the whole point of this fight was that Peter had MASSIVE PHYSICAL ADVANTAGES!!!
He outweighed Toney by nearly 30 pounds, is a HUGE puncher and has MUCH MORE natural strength than Toney.
In my book that cancels out Toney's advantages and it becomes a real pick em fight as I said all along before hand.
Toney looked great against a fighter that nobody else has looked good against, including Wladimir.
If anyone had the tools to beat Peter convincingly surely it would be Wlad, tall and rangy, able to keep Peter at a distance, massive true heavyweight power in both hands, as big as Peter naturally with hardly any fat on him, in perfect physical condition and at a young age. Result, the big lumbering unskilled Peter decked him 3 times ::**
Toney does not the credit he deserves in the division. Of course it's going to be harder for him to win fights than the likes of Peter and Wlad because he does not have heavyweight power, he relies totally on his ring craft and skills. That he does so well is nothing short of amazing.
Personally I would rather watch Toney take on Maskaev and the other heavyweight champs over Peter any day of the week.
I'm sure he isn't done yet, he'll be back, just wait and see.........
Re: Toney's Future RING MAGAZINE ONLINE
Quote:
Originally Posted by bilbo
Cheers for the read but it was a shite article.
The writer completely contradicts himself, saying that Toney should give up because he couldn't dominate an inferior boxer who threw huge punches, then in the next breath says that Toney has ALWAYS had this problem and so did the great Pernell Whitaker. ???
So does he think Toney should have retired when he lost to McCallum or Griffin? ???
Secondly he says Toney should have dominated and shouldn't have been hit by Peter. Well apart from Wladimir EVERYONE else has lost to Peter, most by knockout. Wlad was put on his a** 3 TIMES by Peter, guess he should retire immediately as well then ::**
The fact is Toney won the fight at the weekend, his boxing skills were superior, he outlanded Peter and his shots were far crisper and more accurate.
This dumbass writer says that Toney should have been able to dominate due to his boxing skills, but the whole point of this fight was that Peter had MASSIVE PHYSICAL ADVANTAGES!!!
He outweighed Toney by nearly 30 pounds, is a HUGE puncher and has MUCH MORE natural strength than Toney.
In my book that cancels out Toney's advantages and it becomes a real pick em fight as I said all along before hand.
Toney looked great against a fighter that nobody else has looked good against, including Wladimir.
If anyone had the tools to beat Peter convincingly surely it would be Wlad, tall and rangy, able to keep Peter at a distance, massive true heavyweight power in both hands, as big as Peter naturally with hardly any fat on him, in perfect physical condition and at a young age. Result, the big lumbering unskilled Peter decked him 3 times ::**
Toney does not the credit he deserves in the division. Of course it's going to be harder for him to win fights than the likes of Peter and Wlad because he does not have heavyweight power, he relies totally on his ring craft and skills. That he does so well is nothing short of amazing.
Personally I would rather watch Toney take on Maskaev and the other heavyweight champs over Peter any day of the week.
I'm sure he isn't done yet, he'll be back, just wait and see.........
Nice posting, Bilbo :coolclick:
Re: Toney's Future RING MAGAZINE ONLINE
Toney failed himself, at 217 he would have been fast enough to avoid getting tagged, and would have put on a clinic , however as it turned out he was cemented at 233. and easily hit and even rocked a few times . that’s his own damn fault, IMO “ Live by the fork die by the fork”
Re: Toney's Future RING MAGAZINE ONLINE
Quote:
Originally Posted by bilbo
Cheers for the read but it was a shite article.
The writer completely contradicts himself, saying that Toney should give up because he couldn't dominate an inferior boxer who threw huge punches, then in the next breath says that Toney has ALWAYS had this problem and so did the great Pernell Whitaker. ???
So does he think Toney should have retired when he lost to McCallum or Griffin? ???
Secondly he says Toney should have dominated and shouldn't have been hit by Peter. Well apart from Wladimir EVERYONE else has lost to Peter, most by knockout. Wlad was put on his a** 3 TIMES by Peter, guess he should retire immediately as well then ::**
The fact is Toney won the fight at the weekend, his boxing skills were superior, he outlanded Peter and his shots were far crisper and more accurate.
This dumbass writer says that Toney should have been able to dominate due to his boxing skills, but the whole point of this fight was that Peter had MASSIVE PHYSICAL ADVANTAGES!!!
He outweighed Toney by nearly 30 pounds, is a HUGE puncher and has MUCH MORE natural strength than Toney.
In my book that cancels out Toney's advantages and it becomes a real pick em fight as I said all along before hand.
Toney looked great against a fighter that nobody else has looked good against, including Wladimir.
If anyone had the tools to beat Peter convincingly surely it would be Wlad, tall and rangy, able to keep Peter at a distance, massive true heavyweight power in both hands, as big as Peter naturally with hardly any fat on him, in perfect physical condition and at a young age. Result, the big lumbering unskilled Peter decked him 3 times ::**
Toney does not the credit he deserves in the division. Of course it's going to be harder for him to win fights than the likes of Peter and Wlad because he does not have heavyweight power, he relies totally on his ring craft and skills. That he does so well is nothing short of amazing.
Personally I would rather watch Toney take on Maskaev and the other heavyweight champs over Peter any day of the week.
I'm sure he isn't done yet, he'll be back, just wait and see.........
You took the words right out of my mouth. CC
Re: Toney's Future RING MAGAZINE ONLINE
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lords Gym
Toney failed himself, at 217 he would have been fast enough to avoid getting tagged, and would have put on a clinic , however as it turned out he was cemented at 233. and easily hit and even rocked a few times . that’s his own damn fault, IMO “ Live by the fork die by the fork”
LMAO Toney at 217!!!YER RITE!
Re: Toney's Future RING MAGAZINE ONLINE
Quote:
Originally Posted by bilbo
Cheers for the read but it was a shite article.
The writer completely contradicts himself, saying that Toney should give up because he couldn't dominate an inferior boxer who threw huge punches, then in the next breath says that Toney has ALWAYS had this problem and so did the great Pernell Whitaker. ???
So does he think Toney should have retired when he lost to McCallum or Griffin? ???
Secondly he says Toney should have dominated and shouldn't have been hit by Peter. Well apart from Wladimir EVERYONE else has lost to Peter, most by knockout. Wlad was put on his a** 3 TIMES by Peter, guess he should retire immediately as well then ::**
The fact is Toney won the fight at the weekend, his boxing skills were superior, he outlanded Peter and his shots were far crisper and more accurate.
This dumbass writer says that Toney should have been able to dominate due to his boxing skills, but the whole point of this fight was that Peter had MASSIVE PHYSICAL ADVANTAGES!!!
He outweighed Toney by nearly 30 pounds, is a HUGE puncher and has MUCH MORE natural strength than Toney.
In my book that cancels out Toney's advantages and it becomes a real pick em fight as I said all along before hand.
Toney looked great against a fighter that nobody else has looked good against, including Wladimir.
If anyone had the tools to beat Peter convincingly surely it would be Wlad, tall and rangy, able to keep Peter at a distance, massive true heavyweight power in both hands, as big as Peter naturally with hardly any fat on him, in perfect physical condition and at a young age. Result, the big lumbering unskilled Peter decked him 3 times ::**
Toney does not the credit he deserves in the division. Of course it's going to be harder for him to win fights than the likes of Peter and Wlad because he does not have heavyweight power, he relies totally on his ring craft and skills. That he does so well is nothing short of amazing.
Personally I would rather watch Toney take on Maskaev and the other heavyweight champs over Peter any day of the week.
I'm sure he isn't done yet, he'll be back, just wait and see.........
ditto. yet another cc for that post.
