Do people think too highly of old heroes?
I have heard many times over the past years about how shot fighters will pull out victories when its pretty obvious they are done. Here are some examples IMO.
Jones reaching the level he was at before Tarver II
Morales vs. Pacquiao
Gatti vs. Mayweather or Baldomir
Judah vs. an opponent who can endure four rounds of one of the best boxers in the business.
Hopkins vs. heavyweights(Hopkins never had great footspeed, and I think these guys could easily walk through his punches).
Evander vs. heavyweights best
Toney going down to 220 and thus being able to move
It just seems people are so infactuated with the fighters they love or at least admire that they can't see how far their fighter has fallen.
Re: Do people think too highly of old heroes?
I think more relevant than the fans not realising that their 'heroes' have fallen from their pedastal is that fighters themselves for some reason or other fail to see that they might be better served by retirement. Granted some need the cash, but the likes of RJJ should move on.
Re: Do people think too highly of old heroes?
I always want to believe my heroes can pull out another sweet win :( or avange a loss.
Morales? LOL He's not shot!
Vargas :( Ray Leonard :( JC Chavez :( Thomas Hearns :( <---- I do not want to see him fighting today :( I am not a huge heavy weight fan. I am a more of a middle weight fan and Welterweight fan (and below.) I never said I was a purist and honestly it is very hard to keep up with all the names in so many weight divisions :(
Also watching George Foreman come back and knock out Michael Moorer makes anything possible. You never know what old guy will come back and win ;D
Re: Do people think too highly of old heroes?
George got lucky, and Moorer wasn't that good... anyways IMO Morrales is shot he hasn't had a good showing in too long for him to be a threat for the likes of PAcman IMO.
Re: Do people think too highly of old heroes?
It happens in every sport.
Joe Montana is the greatest QB
Gordie Howe or Wayne Gretzky is the best hockey player.
Michael Jordan...
and so on and so on.
The reality is athletes now are faster, stronger, and have more knowledge. So if someone every invented a time machine to put boxers in their prime against each other, I would usually put my money on the current athlete. I think what people should be arguing is that who was the most ahead of their time.
Re: Do people think too highly of old heroes?
I don't think it has so much to do with not being able to see how far they've fallen, but we just wish they get that big win one more time, and then retiere on a high! Kind of like many people wish now that b hop stays retiered, cause his performance against tarver was masterful, and we don't know if he can do it one more time against a heavyweight.
Re: Do people think too highly of old heroes?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
George got lucky, and Moorer wasn't that good... anyways IMO Morrales is shot he hasn't had a good showing in too long for him to be a threat for the likes of PAcman IMO.
yea and what are you going to say if Morales beats Pacquiao (because he does have a great chance in doing so) you'll probably just say that Pacquiao was overrated and that the victory wasn't a real win either way
Re: Do people think too highly of old heroes?
hell yeah people do. but i can't really talk cos i do it myself with a certain mr tyson
Re: Do people think too highly of old heroes?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
I have heard many times over the past years about how shot fighters will pull out victories when its pretty obvious they are done. Here are some examples IMO.
Jones reaching the level he was at before Tarver II
Morales vs. Pacquiao
Gatti vs. Mayweather or Baldomir
Judah vs. an opponent who can endure four rounds of one of the best boxers in the business.
Hopkins vs. heavyweights(Hopkins never had great footspeed, and I think these guys could easily walk through his punches).
Evander vs. heavyweights best
Toney going down to 220 and thus being able to move
It just seems people are so infactuated with the fighters they love or at least admire that they can't see how far their fighter has fallen.
Yeah in some ways people some times have a hard time seeing the truth about their fighters but you've gotta look at each of those by a case by case basis. Some of these guys aren't shot or done.
Jones was too much of a speed and reflex based fighter to really age well. I agree on that. Unlike Hopkins or Toney, even Floyd I think will age better cause of better technique.
Morales I think is definitely on the downside, whether he's totally shot or not I don't know. I assume that he's extremely motivated for the Pac fight and he does seem in better condition earlier but the safe bet is Pac.
Gatti's shot. Its funny to remember how many people on here thought he would beat Mayweather. Hes not a fighter that would age well either, not for the same reason as RJ, just cause of his lack of defense and taking so many punches.
Judah's not shot, except for maybe mentally. Judah's always faded as fights go on, well exception being Spinks 2, it was really no surprise that he would fade against Floyd when he faded against guys like Baldomir, Pineda, Weiss, and Corley.
Hopkins is not in his physical prime but he's not shot. Cause of his technique and not taking that many punches he's still a good fighter. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he beats Maskaev, he more than makes up for his not elite footspeed with great footwork and smart movement.
Evander's shot. Too many punches taken over the course of his career.
Toney's not shot, he just outboxed Peter, but I do wish he would retire, if not now after one or two more fights cause his speech is so slurry these days. But he's still so slick that he can beat young heavyweights.
Its pretty simple, the guys who don't take a ton of punches, who have good technique usually last longer.
Re: Do people think too highly of old heroes?
Good question.
Hard answer.
As a whole...I think we as boxing fans are horrible human beings when it comes to our outlook on fighters.
I think that we all either under appreciate or over rate our favorites/champions & then after one loss a lot of us will just drop 'em like a used condom.
It's terrible.
I've been quilty of it before also...hence the "we as a whole" statement.
Do people think too highly of old heroes?
Some do...some don't.
I love to see an oldy but goody come back from behind & notch a legit win...but I also think that when one is done...he's really done.
Sure they can get up for that win...but can they get up for the next one & will they make it out of that one alive...or normal?
Re: Do people think too highly of old heroes?
Here's a theory:
Everybody always thinks that the sportsmen who were dominant on their own 'prime' was the best thing since sliced bread. People rate someone just a little bit older than they are. That is what hero-worship is all about ('I wish I knew him/wish he was my mate/wish he was my big brother')
For example, Talk to a 20 year old and they will rate Calzaghe, Mayweather, Wright
Talk to a 30 year old and they will rate ODLH, Roy Jones, Lennox Lewis
Talk to a 40 year old and they will rate Hearns, Leonard, Duran, Hagler
Talk to a 50 year old etc etc etc
Don't bother delving into the detail of the ages and the fighters, I think my underlying point stands scrutiny?
There are always going to be exceptions that disprove this (mainly real afficionados of a sport) and probably a lot of people on this forum? Plus, the more time that passes, the more legends grow with the benefit of rose-tinted memories. We forget the sight of George Foreman being humiliated by Ali as a one-dimensional puncher and remember the internationally-qualified monster who devoured Joe Frazier, Kenny Norton and others.
BUT - to the general public, sportmen age faster - you can be finished at 35, yet only just be starting out on life in the real world.
Whenever we see people we looked up to in our youth being butchered and outclassed because they are too old, we glimpse echoes of our own mortality and we rage agaiinst the dying of our own light, just as we rage against the passing of someone else's prime.
heavy!
Re: Do people think too highly of old heroes?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
George got lucky, and Moorer wasn't that good... anyways IMO Morrales is shot he hasn't had a good showing in too long for him to be a threat for the likes of PAcman IMO.
yea and what are you going to say if Morales beats Pacquiao (because he does have a great chance in doing so) you'll probably just say that Pacquiao was overrated and that the victory wasn't a real win either way
If I am wrong then I'll admit it, but I don't think Morales has enough left.
Re: Do people think too highly of old heroes?
Quote:
Originally Posted by X
Here's a theory:
Everybody always thinks that the sportsmen who were dominant on their own 'prime' was the best thing since sliced bread. People rate someone just a little bit older than they are. That is what hero-worship is all about ('I wish I knew him/wish he was my mate/wish he was my big brother')
For example, Talk to a 20 year old and they will rate Calzaghe, Mayweather, WrightTalk to a 30 year old and they will rate ODLH, Roy Jones, Lennox Lewis
Talk to a 40 year old and they will rate Hearns, Leonard, Duran, Hagler
Talk to a 50 year old etc etc etc
Don't bother delving into the detail of the ages and the fighters, I think my underlying point stands scrutiny?
There are always going to be exceptions that disprove this (mainly real afficionados of a sport) and probably a lot of people on this forum? Plus, the more time that passes, the more legends grow with the benefit of rose-tinted memories. We forget the sight of George Foreman being humiliated by Ali as a one-dimensional puncher and remember the internationally-qualified monster who devoured Joe Frazier, Kenny Norton and others.
BUT - to the general public, sportmen age faster - you can be finished at 35, yet only just be starting out on life in the real world.
Whenever we see people we looked up to in our youth being butchered and outclassed because they are too old, we glimpse echoes of our own mortality and we rage agaiinst the dying of our own light, just as we rage against the passing of someone else's prime.
heavy!
dead on (although im 26)
mayweather, calzaghe, and wright are 3 of my 5 favorites (jermain taylor and zab judah are the other two)
cc
Re: Do people think too highly of old heroes?
Craz thing is toda it is hard to judge when or why a fighter is shot. We have top notch guys at over or near 40..Many champions in their 30's...Most of the P4P list is at or over 30..An age when you were considered aging 40 years ago....Then again those guy's took more abuse....Lighter gloves longer fights,,A big appeal for me about the older fighters is they were great naturally...No supplements..No state of the art equipment, Stuff like that does make a difference...I think once a top level fighter starts to stuggle against opponents he would have once blown out or starts losing more than winning..Either hang them up or if they wont come to grips someone should take away their license.......Nothing bothers me more than to see a once great fighter become a punching bag for guys not even worthy as sparring partners when they were in their primes
