Cotto aka........

Jeff Lacy

Hear me out before I get slated please :-\

Lacy won several fights VERY convincingly, as such, he was heralded as a pound for pounder by many critics. Definitely his victories over Pemberton and Reid were good examples of his apparent ferocity.
However, when it came to the crunch and he was tested, by a seemingly unpopular welshman, he was severely embaressed and alot of people realised that they had been caught up in the hype, overestimated his ability. The conclusion was that Calzaghe was better than we all thought, but equally, Lacy was worse. His comeback fight did nothing to convince us otherwise tbh.

Now we look at the Cotto situation. Having yet to take on anybody of serious ability, he has been devestating. His opponents are being hammered into submission. However, as he has not really been challenged, I fail to see why he is seen as the number 2 behind Mayweather in the 147 category, with quite a few people believing that he has the artillary to beat him. ??? (Some people believe that he top 10 p4p)

Without a vault of class previous opponentsto refer to, is he being overhyped as well. We have little evidence of how he may fair against somebody of Mosley's or Hatton's ability, let alon Mayweather. I can understand alot of people liking his style, but just because you like the way a fighter fights, it doesn't make great. i am a huge Hatton fan, but I am distinctly aware of his limitations, it just seems like the Cotto fans are getting ahead of themselves a little............... maybe not for long, but still........


P.S. This is not a dig at Cotto fans, just an observation that I hope will lead to sensible discussion, not flaming.

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Originally Posted by hackey100

Jeff Lacy

Hear me out before I get slated please :-\

Lacy won several fights VERY convincingly, as such, he was heralded as a pound for pounder by many critics. Definitely his victories over Pemberton and Reid were good examples of his apparent ferocity.
However, when it came to the crunch and he was tested, by a seemingly unpopular welshman, he was severely embaressed and alot of people realised that they had been caught up in the hype, overestimated his ability. The conclusion was that Calzaghe was better than we all thought, but equally, Lacy was worse. His comeback fight did nothing to convince us otherwise tbh.

Now we look at the Cotto situation. Having yet to take on anybody of serious ability, he has been devestating. His opponents are being hammered into submission. However, as he has not really been challenged, I fail to see why he is seen as the number 2 behind Mayweather in the 147 category, with quite a few people believing that he has the artillary to beat him. ??? (Some people believe that he top 10 p4p)

Without a vault of class previous opponentsto refer to, is he being overhyped as well. We have little evidence of how he may fair against somebody of Mosley's or Hatton's ability, let alon Mayweather. I can understand alot of people liking his style, but just because you like the way a fighter fights, it doesn't make great. i am a huge Hatton fan, but I am distinctly aware of his limitations, it just seems like the Cotto fans are getting ahead of themselves a little............... maybe not for long, but still........


P.S. This is not a dig at Cotto fans, just an observation that I hope will lead to sensible discussion, not flaming.

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Cool click welcome to casa de saddo.
You will find that the Cotto fans on this board are pretty down to earth and they realise that he hasn't fought anyone with serious serious ability. He has fought much better opposition than Jeff Lacy had tho. You will find he is not being over-hyped on this board. He might be on sky sports but not on this forum.

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Originally Posted by hackey100

Jeff Lacy

Hear me out before I get slated please :-\

Lacy won several fights VERY convincingly, as such, he was heralded as a pound for pounder by many critics. Definitely his victories over Pemberton and Reid were good examples of his apparent ferocity.
However, when it came to the crunch and he was tested, by a seemingly unpopular welshman, he was severely embaressed and alot of people realised that they had been caught up in the hype, overestimated his ability. The conclusion was that Calzaghe was better than we all thought, but equally, Lacy was worse. His comeback fight did nothing to convince us otherwise tbh.

Now we look at the Cotto situation. Having yet to take on anybody of serious ability, he has been devestating. His opponents are being hammered into submission. However, as he has not really been challenged, I fail to see why he is seen as the number 2 behind Mayweather in the 147 category, with quite a few people believing that he has the artillary to beat him. ??? (Some people believe that he top 10 p4p)

Without a vault of class previous opponentsto refer to, is he being overhyped as well. We have little evidence of how he may fair against somebody of Mosley's or Hatton's ability, let alon Mayweather. I can understand alot of people liking his style, but just because you like the way a fighter fights, it doesn't make great. i am a huge Hatton fan, but I am distinctly aware of his limitations, it just seems like the Cotto fans are getting ahead of themselves a little............... maybe not for long, but still........


P.S. This is not a dig at Cotto fans, just an observation that I hope will lead to sensible discussion, not flaming.

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I know how to read between the lines. ;)

I don't think it's the same really.

Even before Lacey got humbled against Calzaghe there were signs he wasn't the all conquering mini Mike Tyson people were claiming him to be.

Going 12 rounds with Omar Sheika was one such pointer. Struggling to get Rubin Williams out of the way, even being outboxed in some rounds and Peter Manfredo getting rid of Pemberton even more easily than Lacey did.

Cotto has already been in with better competition than Lacey. Malignaggi is a classy operator. Torres is now a world champ (although that was controversial), Abdulaev was a good solid fighter, as was Quintana. He's also beaten Maussa who breiefly went onto become world champ.

Lacey beat Syd Vanderpool for the vacant title if I remember correctly and fought nobody of any significance at all leading upto the Calzaghe fight.

Williams, Pemberton, Reid etc, hardly future Hall Of Famers. :-\

Personally I am not getting ahead of myself.
Cotto is right where he should be. Moving up the ladder slowly but surely.

I honestly think he is a bigger threat at 147 than he was at 140.

If you look back on two opponents that Cotto stopped and Mayweather did not.
Corley and Sosa.

Cotto also Stopped Maussa before Ricky.

Floyd was running around beating fighters that had already been beat. Not only beaten fighters were they but were also old or soft hitters.

Cotto fought some undefeated fighters who were for the most part heavy handed and the fights were great fights.

We can put all of this aside and just know that they are trying to get Cotto to fight 4 times a year.
People on the radar are:
Judah
Margarito
Williams
Berto
(Maybe Paulie Malignaggi again)
Mosley
PBF

I think by then, he should have a pretty nice standing in the rankings.

I will also add this.
Cotto would detroy Gatti and Baldomir sooner than PBF did.

Floyd's opposition was just luck in timming I guess. Gatti and Baldomir are crap thru and thru.
Look at who gave Floyd a tough time? Zab Judah. LMAO
Zab is not going to have his way with Cotto.
Judah is going to taste Cotto's power and then Judah will be through and come unglued.

Cotto has accomplished whats tooken Hatton and many other fighters to do in just 20 something fights.
Whilie it's taken Hatton and others almost 40 fights to accomplish what hes done.....

Last I remember Lacy was not NEAR the P4P list, so I'm not sure where you got that from.

Hattons looked out of it in his last 2 fights, against people who he was suposse to blow out of the water. Instead he won a very shady fight against Collazo who many people feel it was a draw or a win for Collazo.

He then fights Urango with just 17 fights, you read that 17. And struggles with him, at times he looked good then he looked out of it.

Lacys best opponents were Pember & Reid. People thought (Including me) that Lacys sheer power would be too much for Joe.
And power alone.....

Thats not the case with Cotto, the kids improved and continues to do so day in and day out. Cotto just doesn't have power he moves well in the ring, hes a great body puncher. You see what I'm saying. Lacy was going in against Joe with power and power only.
Cottos coming into this fight with more then just his power. Thats the difference.

Cotto overhyped? Nah!! been saying 4, 5 fights ago that he would be at the top of the div. What I didn't say was that he would be doing it in the Welter div. hes fighting well and the right type of opposition for someone hitting the 30 mark.

You say Cottos has taken on anyone with serious ability as I said hes fighting top contenders and his fighting the same fighters that the rest of the top fighters are fighting.....


Cotto & PBF have fought similar opponents check the results of the fights. ;) and tell me Cotto isn't fighting anyone with serious ability as you say.



Thanks for the good laugh hackey ;D

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Originally Posted by CutMeMicK

Cotto has accomplished whats tooken Hatton and many other fighters to do in just 20 something fights.
Whilie it's taken Hatton and others almost 40 fights to accomplish what hes done.....

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Exactly how do you figure that Mick? If your talking about a sprint then I agree, Cotto has done things more quickly. But as far as accomplishments go, beating Tszyu for the undisputed light welterweight title pisses on beating Kelson 'sicknote' Pinto for the vacant WBO title and beating Collazo for the WBA title is a greater acomplishment than beating Quintana for the very same belt.

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Originally Posted by Memphis

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CutMeMicK

Cotto has accomplished whats tooken Hatton and many other fighters to do in just 20 something fights.
Whilie it's taken Hatton and others almost 40 fights to accomplish what hes done.....

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Exactly how do you figure that Mick? If your talking about a sprint then I agree, Cotto has done things more quickly. But as far as accomplishments go, beating Tszyu for the undisputed light welterweight title pisses on beating Kelson 'sicknote' Pinto for the vacant WBO title and beating Collazo for the WBA title is a greater acomplishment than beating Quintana for the very same belt.

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I mean that it took Hatton 39 fights to fight for a World titlem while it took Cotto 20 fights to step on the World Champ. class......

Hatton moves up to 147 and wins a contreversial fight.
Cotto moves up to 147 and wins in BIG fashion.

Cottos doing things much better and with better results.....

Said it before the Tszyu win is dying out and slowly fading due to his latest fights. If he rides his career on that win alone it will be ashame cause the guys so talented and he can beat most anyone on his best night be he hasn't....

So Cotto has accomplished more because he won a title quicker? You do see the flaw in that logic Mick dont you? Dont force me to dig up some WBF title winner in his second fight and hail him as the greatest ;D

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Originally Posted by Memphis

So Cotto has accomplished more because he won a title quicker? You do see the flaw in that logic Mick dont you? Dont force me to dig up some WBF title winner in his second fight and hail him as the greatest ;D

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Well, when hackey is saying that Cotto hasn't faced fighters with serious ability....

I responded that Cottos where he sould be hes about to hit the 30 fight mark and is fighting the correct fighters.....
Hatton on the other hand didn't step up to world class untill the Tszyu fight with almost 40 fights......

That is all, Cottos fighting world class fighters quicker the Hatton did. So to slag Cotto for this is IMO absurd as he is clearly facing the right opponents....

Don't get me wrong here Cutmemick, I'm not underestimating what Cotto has achieved, he has been entertaining and destructive. As has been pointed out, the race for a belt is not an indication of who is the better fighter, just look at Winky Wright's record. I am not having a dig at Cotto, just pointing out that we may be premature in our estimations of him. I cannot deny his potential and I do believe he has a massive future, but still I think we are premature in placing him so highly in our estimations.

As for reading between the lines, you don't need to. I am a Hatton fan, but I am also a realist. Yes he is very very good, but he is not on my P4P list, and neither is Cotto.

oh, thanks for tthe cc, and the sc whoever that was :(