My thoughts on Calzaghe / Warren...

Now this is my opinion.. Now i hope nobody takes offense or anything.. I love boxing and my peeps on saddoboxing.. But i gotta express this new theory on warren and joey c..

Now.. As we all know.. The problem with Joe Calzaghe at this point in time, is that he is many fights undefeated and ten years a world champ, But has no defining fights or fights with any BIG name fighters..

I, like alot of the boxing fanbase want joe to step up and finally fight a big name and show that he belongs in the p4p lists that a split proportion of boxing fans put him into..

Joe is in danger of getting old over night having had 40 plus professional fights and his hands have long since been betraying him even in low contact occasions..
So it would appear joe only has between 3 and 6 fights left, If that!..Before calling it a day..

But what is it that has caused a ten year world champion, with fourty plus fights to have never gotten those defining and big name fights that the public crave?

I have heard alot of people put the blame on warren, they say he protects his fighters, they say if joe wasnt with warren he would have fought them all.. But of couse joe has a life contract with warren..

Now the problem is..
People say it is warren's fault.. But they forget about the warren that took all his other fighters to the top and got them big fights..

Now correct me if im wrong on any of these..And i could be.. But the general gist of this will be clear..

Warren promoted Prince Naseem..Naseem fought some good and great fighters.. And was hyped up beyond belief when he broke america.. He seemed to have had it done perfectly..
Fights with the likes of Augie Sanchez, Kevin Kelly, Marco Antonio Barrera.. World titles, Hbo television
So Prince nas was everything but protected.. and he made big money and big fights..

Warren was with Nigel Benn for a proportion of his career, He then split with him only to come back to him late in his career.. And warren always got benn the great big fights that made benn a great legacy

When Warren had Hatton.. He built him up brilliantly..As a prospect.. British, internation, Wbu world titles.. Decent competition; Vince philips, eamon mcgee, Ben tackie.. Then had the confidence in him to put him in with Tszyu .. And it payed off.. Hatton too broke the bigtime, Titles, Big fights, Publicity, Hbo television


Now thats something to think about..I said ' warren had the confidence in hatton' to put him into that big fight...

Now joe's slipping or late blooming stardom is down to one or two things in my honest opinion..

Either.. Frank Warren is in fact not confident that Joe is good enough for the real big time and he is in agreement that he and joe will make theyr money in britain by Fighting right up to the finish line of superstardom and picking known but not great opponents whilst never crossing the border of greatness

OR.. There is some sort of understanding between Joe Calzaghe and Frank Warren that Joe does not want these big fights. Perhaps Joe does not honestly beleive he is of the top caliber and it is Joe who is protecting himself.. and his undefeated record of which maybe he hopes that in ten years..People will see his impressive record and enough time will have passed so that people would be unsure whether these were good fighters or not on his record.. All they will see is alot of title defences..

Frankly.. It could be both.. Because looking back at warren's record.. Theres not an amazing ammount of evidence that say's he has trouble getting these big fights.. hes got the contacts and he has struck the right deals in the past!

So like i said..Dont take offence..But really think about this one and tell me..

What is it that has continued to stop Joe from taking over the boxing world undisputedly..
Because its getting late.. There are three or four BIG defining fights to take..But they have been on the table for years and years.. And we all know that negotiations in boxing are a MOTHER**
And we have heard that these fighters wont come to britain, or they want too much money, or they have taken another fight, or they cannot fight in *Insert hbo/ show date in here*

But when it comes to the scale of time measured in years..There is something wrong.. Theres prospects and better contenders to beat then he did fight.. And if he wanted the fights bad enough..He could have ripped himself off by taking the short end of the stick and know that his stock would go up twice that when he won..

Which leaves joe at the point where he needs these fights badly.. And he must not realise it..
But the clock is ticking and he needs others..More then they need him

Nope aint buying that line of reasoning
Most of Hameds fights were against obviously inferior competition,allowing him to do the very showboating in the ring that made him so obnoxious to watch.
Barrerra's people bent over backwords to get that fight
Either
A)The Prince was starting to believe his own press(most likely)
Or
B)Barrera's people gave away so many concessions to get the fight,that Warren viewed it as a win win

And as soon as Hatton really wanted to step it up,Mr Warren was shown the door
Warren likes to get his guys a share of a title,and will generaly do just about anything to hold it
But come on,look at Warrens recent "offers" 6 Mill to Taylor,but he has to come to Wales,when he can make 10 and stay in the states
Offering Kessslers people the European TV Rights,because of what they "may be" worth
They arent just crappy offers,theyre downright insulting when you consider both of those fighters have double the amount of belts Joe has

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Nope aint buying that line of reasoning
Most of Hameds fights were against obviously inferior competition,allowing him to do the very showboating in the ring that made him so obnoxious to watch.
Barrerra's people bent over backwords to get that fight
Either
A)The Prince was starting to believe his own press(most likely)
Or
B)Barrera's people gave away so many concessions to get the fight,that Warren viewed it as a win win

And as soon as Hatton really wanted to step it up,Mr Warren was shown the door
Warren likes to get his guys a share of a title,and will generaly do just about anything to hold it
But come on,look at Warrens recent "offers" 6 Mill to Taylor,but he has to come to Wales,when he can make 10 and stay in the states
Offering Kessslers people the European TV Rights,because of what they "may be" worth
They arent just crappy offers,theyre downright insulting when you consider both of those fighters have double the amount of belts Joe has

---

Lol.. Taking Kostya Tszyu for a title fight.. Amzingly not a Warren boxing organisation (Wbo) Title , But the ibf title and having built him up with more recognised competition then joe has been defending his world title against is undoubtedly a sign that warren wasnt protecting hatton..

Nas was put in with kelly and they had themselves a bit of a knockdown fest and a real fight.. Hamed might have got sparked in that fight.. Lucky he sparked kelly..
Thats not protection..

Granted he offers people shit sum's of money sometimes.. I dont think Jermain can make 10 mil at any time in america though.. I think 6 mil is a fair some for a fight.. Jermain even mentioned it bieng an interest to him to earn 6 mil.. But Joe dont wana leave britain.. And he needs to forget about the bring the massive fights to britain cos hes running low on the old time dont you think...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tito_BHB

Now this is my opinion.. Now i hope nobody takes offense or anything.. I love boxing and my peeps on saddoboxing.. But i gotta express this new theory on warren and joey c..

Now.. As we all know.. The problem with Joe Calzaghe at this point in time, is that he is many fights undefeated and ten years a world champ, But has no defining fights or fights with any BIG name fighters..

I, like alot of the boxing fanbase want joe to step up and finally fight a big name and show that he belongs in the p4p lists that a split proportion of boxing fans put him into..

Joe is in danger of getting old over night having had 40 plus professional fights and his hands have long since been betraying him even in low contact occasions..
So it would appear joe only has between 3 and 6 fights left, If that!..Before calling it a day..

But what is it that has caused a ten year world champion, with fourty plus fights to have never gotten those defining and big name fights that the public crave?

I have heard alot of people put the blame on warren, they say he protects his fighters, they say if joe wasnt with warren he would have fought them all.. But of couse joe has a life contract with warren..

Now the problem is..
People say it is warren's fault.. But they forget about the warren that took all his other fighters to the top and got them big fights..

Now correct me if im wrong on any of these..And i could be.. But the general gist of this will be clear..

Warren promoted Prince Naseem..Naseem fought some good and great fighters.. And was hyped up beyond belief when he broke america.. He seemed to have had it done perfectly..
Fights with the likes of Augie Sanchez, Kevin Kelly, Marco Antonio Barrera.. World titles, Hbo television
So Prince nas was everything but protected.. and he made big money and big fights..

Warren was with Nigel Benn for a proportion of his career, He then split with him only to come back to him late in his career.. And warren always got benn the great big fights that made benn a great legacy

When Warren had Hatton.. He built him up brilliantly..As a prospect.. British, internation, Wbu world titles.. Decent competition; Vince philips, eamon mcgee, Ben tackie.. Then had the confidence in him to put him in with Tszyu .. And it payed off.. Hatton too broke the bigtime, Titles, Big fights, Publicity, Hbo television


Now thats something to think about..I said ' warren had the confidence in hatton' to put him into that big fight...

Now joe's slipping or late blooming stardom is down to one or two things in my honest opinion..

Either.. Frank Warren is in fact not confident that Joe is good enough for the real big time and he is in agreement that he and joe will make theyr money in britain by Fighting right up to the finish line of superstardom and picking known but not great opponents whilst never crossing the border of greatness

OR.. There is some sort of understanding between Joe Calzaghe and Frank Warren that Joe does not want these big fights. Perhaps Joe does not honestly beleive he is of the top caliber and it is Joe who is protecting himself.. and his undefeated record of which maybe he hopes that in ten years..People will see his impressive record and enough time will have passed so that people would be unsure whether these were good fighters or not on his record.. All they will see is alot of title defences..

Frankly.. It could be both.. Because looking back at warren's record.. Theres not an amazing ammount of evidence that say's he has trouble getting these big fights.. hes got the contacts and he has struck the right deals in the past!

So like i said..Dont take offence..But really think about this one and tell me..

What is it that has continued to stop Joe from taking over the boxing world undisputedly..
Because its getting late.. There are three or four BIG defining fights to take..But they have been on the table for years and years.. And we all know that negotiations in boxing are a MOTHER**
And we have heard that these fighters wont come to britain, or they want too much money, or they have taken another fight, or they cannot fight in *Insert hbo/ show date in here*

But when it comes to the scale of time measured in years..There is something wrong.. Theres prospects and better contenders to beat then he did fight.. And if he wanted the fights bad enough..He could have ripped himself off by taking the short end of the stick and know that his stock would go up twice that when he won..

Which leaves joe at the point where he needs these fights badly.. And he must not realise it..
But the clock is ticking and he needs others..More then they need him

---

I do see your point i im sure warren AND joe have not always beent he easiest to get shit sorted with...

There are however alot of things they have done right...

Agreed and signed to fight Hopkins the then p4p #1 in the us.... Hopkins pulled out...

Roy jones was offered over 5 and a half million to fight calzaghe... (not sure of the venue etc)

Lets not forget Kessler was offerd the July date after the fight...

I agree with the fact Joe most likely will have to go to the Us to fight Taylor... but it is still in the early stages right now - Taylor has to make a defense first... so establishing a price and a venue is something that takes time for fights like this...

The people he could of fought (and whom are past it now) were offerd more than enough money, the type of money that if a brit had turned down would of branded him a coward no doubt!

There is only one name that i can honestly think of that fell through and it had nothing to do with him, and that was glen johnson, 3 times i believe calzaghe had to pull out with a hand problem...

------

I don't think his record is as bad as people make out though - there are alot of shit names on there... but Lacy was a massive name coming into that fight, so much hype - Brewer was a world class fighter - he had that shocking loss to Antwun Echols which i put soly down to him being screwed in germany twice on the ottke fights - but watching him fight calzaghe he was as good, if not better than he ever was, but people right that off coz he was 'washed up' from one dumb loss to Echols...

End of Calzaghe does need to go out on big names, Taylor kessler or kessler taylor, either way he needs them and Taylor in the states would be the much smarter option than taylor in the uk if by a miricle taylor does come over...