Writing a boxing based thesis - Help required

Dear all,

I am about to embark on writing a 12000 word thesis as part of my History undergraduate degree. due to my interest and partisipation in boxing I have decided to explore the possibility to include boxing as a central theme in my writing.

At the moment the topic is quite broad, it will be examining the relationship between organized crime and boxing in the pre WWII era. As yet I am still defining the parametres, however I should emphasize that it is a piece of historical writing not a sports narrative, that is to say boxing will be used as a 'lens' to view the world of organized crime and an example from which to gain insight into the economic and poltical workings between boxers, crime, state and society; assessing their impact on worknig class culture.

I realize this is a very broad topic and will need to be far further refined, i am currently looking at possibilties to compare Jewish and Italain control of the fight game, or possibly an Anglo-American slant. My recent reading on Jack Doyle and Owen Madden is an example of both a boxer and a mobster crossing from one side of the Atlantic to the other.

Being an ocassional poster and long time reader of Saddo's boxing site i am confident there is a whole host of knowledge here that can be imparted. My questions are thus numerous and i would welcome any help.

*I study in England - I've been trynig to find on the net a 'Sports History Archieve' in the United States, both my supervisor and I are confident that such a place must exist if not in multiple incarnations. Does anyone know at which universities or other establishments such a broad archeive of primary newspaper and trial records etc material might exist?

* I plan to conduct a lot of interviews and am always impressed by the star quality of the intervewis conducted exclusivly by Saddos, does anyone have any contacts with 'old time' fight writers, the older the better i suppose, or even does anyone know any boxing historians? I will search through boxing news, and boxing monthly etc and send out a lot of emails. But does anyone ahve any recomendations of fight writers, fighters or boxing historians that i should contact, or even better have access to them?

* Any other suggestions of avenues of potential research or books to read on either organized crime (Italian descended, Jewish, English etc) or biography of particualr boxers who were invovled in the mob?

* I should be able to get hold of these myself and know a few ways, but does anyone know an easy way to get old newspapers (esp. from the U.S.A), backdated copies of sports magazines, or periodicles that write on sports history?


This is a serious project that will take the best part of six months and will most liekly invovle myself traveling to America to perform study. All suggestions are warly welcome and any help received will be credited on the thesis (a copy will be forwarded to you as well) and the thesis may well receive publication if it is successful.

Thank you for your time, all adivce and points of interest will be warmly welcomed.

There's not a centralized historical database for boxing which would make this difficult. Search around, you'll get bits and pieces of stuff from the internet. Old newspaper articles could be found in the same manner (really famous ones should be easier than others). As for writers and historians just look them up and give them a call/email i'm sure they'd be glad to talk about it. Probably not much help, but you just gotta look for it.

If you would like help with research why don't you check out the cyber boxing zone. Many of the members there are researchers, historians, and afficianado's when it comes to boxing. At least they should be able to point you in the right direction. They might also be able to help you in finding primary sources.

Here's the link to their forum: http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/cbzforum/

I messaged you a site for newspaper and magazine archives. It's a very good site that I use a lot to learn about a whole host of things, especially boxing.

International Boxing Research Organization (IBRO) has a web site and may be some help to you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Canvasback

International Boxing Research Organization (IBRO) has a web site and may be some help to you.

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Yeah, it has a lot a good people.

Organized crime? You mean like the Mafia?
No such thing.
Sorry.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Danny_G

Organized crime? You mean like the Mafia?
No such thing.
Sorry.

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right on....you a speaking nothing but truth!!!! Marciano had no mob ties......

The book The Devil and Sonny Liston (Paperback) has some interestiung stuff about the Blinky Palermo/Frankie Carbo cartel in the 40s.

Bi***-slaps Barry51. No need for that spam motherhubbard.

Anyhow, I'm sure you'll have been referred to the National Newspaper Archive in North London, and having done my own history thesis, a few days researching in there was vital, despite the laborious process of going through all the stuff that wasn't relevant, it was good.

They have all the magazines etc there as well I think, so that would be a good resource to use. If you're not too close to London there are other libraries that will hold different archives of magazines such as BN etc as well. As for online, there's not so much available I don;t think.

Good luck with your thesis. I'm sure Scrap would prove invaluable in this task seeing as he's older and more knowledgeble than Bert Sugar and Angelo Dundee combined.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Good luck with your thesis. I'm sure Scrap would prove invaluable in this task seeing as he's older and more knowledgeble than Bert Sugar and Angelo Dundee combined.

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I think it's harsh to say Scrap is older than Bert Sugar and Angelo Dundee combined....that'd be like some sort of freaky 200-year old dude, but on the knowledge front I wouldn't be surprised.

James - good luck, mate.

A good place to look would be the transition from the Jewish cartels in boxing in the 20's and early 30's to the Italian-American cartel in the late thirties probably through to the sixties.

Norris's IBC 'club' were an interesting middle ground in the 50's, and the whole sorry spectacle culminated in the Kefauver Hearings, at which Sonny Liston was implicated.

The problem you are going to have with this subject, is that the establishment in boxing, who have access and knowledge you need, are going to be reluctant to help you with a project that paints their living in a poor light?

You might want to stick to boxing, but maybe change the actual subject matter to something that would be easier to get people to cooperate with?

Still - good luck to you.

Dear all,

Thank you all for the pointers, the International Boxing Research Organization and the Cyberboxingzone are probably exactly what i need to save me those initial few days of hunting around looking for a good place to start.

Sorry i cant give a more detailed response to everyone's welcomed advice, at the minute im working fun 60hour plus weeks, which keeps me busy! I will endevour to post a more complete repsonse over the weekend and keep everyone informed as to where i'm taking my research, im continually finding more UK-US links and if i can combine it with the Jewish / Italian strand I am sure i can layer a good assessment into different sub cultures and social structures bla bla bla etc!!

cc to all that have helped me so far, i look forward to going through all the sites and contacting everyone you have suggested.

Many thanks,

James