Why Do Some Of You Not Consider Floyd Mayweather Jr A Great ??

Forgetting Cotto, Williams, Margarito for a second, i want to know right at this moment why some of you do not consider Mayweather a great ?? a great boxer IMO has to take risks, Mayweather has passed this test with fighting the likes of Corrales, Castillo x2, Oscar, ETC. A great boxer has to be able to deal with all kinds of different styles and Mayweather passed with flying colors.

Achievements

He has also won multiple World titles in 5 different weight classes, and i can only think of 6 other boxers in the history of the sport that have achieved that. Oscar De La Hoya, Thomas Hearns, Ray Leonard, James Toney, Lester Ellis, Roberto Duran, Mayweather is only the 7th boxer in the history of boxing to achieve that so that achievement alone ranks him up there as one of the greats IMO.

Gernaro Hernadez

Lets go back to the start of Mayweather's career and actually study his opposition, Mayweather's first real good opponent was Genaro Hernandez, now i want to give you some history on Gernaro Hernadez. Before the Mayweather fight, Hernandez had beaten the likes of Jorga Paez, Azumah Nelson, Carlos Hernandez, plus G. Hernandez had never been beaten at Super Featherweight when Mayweather fought him. And before people bring up his loss to Oscar De La Hoya that was at Lightweight not Super featherweight, Mayweather only had 17 pro fights at the time and dominated a very experienced World Champion who had never been beaten at that weight class in impressive fashion.

Angel Manfredy

Now onto Manfredy who was considered a top contender at Super Featherweight and at the time a very dangerous opponent. Beating Arturo Gatti in impressive fashion, now a lot of people considered this very tough 1st title defense for Mayweather, and Mayweather destroyed Manfredy in 2 rounds and couldn't of done it any better.

Then after that fight Mayweather beat decent opposition like Carlos Gerena, Gregorio Vargas, Justin Juuko, Carlos Alberto Ramon Rios, Emanuel Augustus.

Diego Corrales

Now onto Diego Corrales who at the time was 33-0, and was one of the top P4P fighters at the time, Corrales was destroying all the top Super Featherweight contenders, Mayweather was making his 6 defense of his Super Featherweight World title, now the fans and mostly everybody at the time thought this was 50/50 match up. But to the shock of everybody Mayweather gave Corrales a boxing lesson knocking him down 5 times winning 10th round TKO when Corrales's corner threw in the towel.

Carlos Hernandez

After the Corrales fight Mayweather fought the tough Carlos Hernandez, Hernandez coming into Mayweather fight lost two fights one to Gernaro Hernandez and another early in his career. Hernandez was considered a good tough opponent, Mayweather suffered his first knockdown of his career when he suffered bad hand injury after hitting Hernandez on the top of the head. His glove touched the canvas it was not a punch from Hernandez by the way, and boxing fans who have watched the fight do not consider this a proper knockdown. But never the less it counts as a knockdown on the record books and Mayweather had the toughest fight of his career up to this point. But Mayweather won the fight by clear cut 12 round decision.


Jesus Chavez


After the Carlos Hernandez fight Mayweather fought the tough Jesus Chavez, now just like Carlos Hernandez, Chavez was considered a tough game opponent, Chavez only lost 1 fight early in his career. But built up a nice winning streak coming into Mayweather fight. This was Mayweather's 8 defense of Super Featherweight title. Now right from the opening bell Chavez come out like a mad man throwing 100+ and 90+ punches a round, trying to put non stop pressure on Mayweather, it seemed to have some good effect in early going as Chavez's relentless pressure was pinning Mayweather on the ropes, the problem was that Chavez was missing a lot of punches and Mayweather was countering Chavez with hard crisp uppercuts. As this great fight went on Mayweather was starting to take control in later rounds, coming into 9th round it seemed close fight but Mayweather dug deep and battered Chavez with brutal uppercuts, Chavez was at this point starting to take a great deal of punishment, so after the 9th round while sitting on his stool Chavez's corner stopped the fight. And Mayweather won a tough TKO victory over Chavez, arguably one Mayweather's toughest fights of his career.


Jose Luis Castillo And The Controversy


Now after Chavez fight Mayweather moved up to Lightweight to fight Lightweight world champion Jose Luis Castillo, Castillo had never been KO/Knockdown. in his entire career, he suffered a few TKO, losses early in his career. But really got himself together in 1999 when he beat Jorge Paez, then in 2000 took on the Lightweight World champion Stevie Johnston and beat him by decision, it was called Upset of the year, they then met in a rematch the same year and they battled to a draw, although there was some controversy, because at first Johnston was declared the winner by MD, but one of the judges made error in the scoring, his original scorecard was 115-114, making Johnston winner by MD, but minutes later it was discovered that his scorecard was counted up wrong and it should of read 114-114, so then the decision was then changed to a draw so Castillo retained his Lightweight title on a draw. Castillo then moved on and made 2 defenses of his title, then Mayweather vs Castillo was finally on.

Now in the first 4 rounds it appeared Mayweather would have easy time with Castillo, as he easily out boxed Castillo for 4 rounds using his jab and movement, but then after 4th round it started to become a very tough night for Mayweather. As Castillo started to close the distance between himself and Mayweather, and he started to pin Mayweather on the ropes and bang him to the body constantly. Castillo had point deducted in the 8th for hitting on the break and Mayweather had point deducted in the 10th for using his elbow. In the later rounds it was toe to toe battle as both men were having success, after 12th tough rounds, it appeared to some viewers that Castillo had clearly won by at least 1 or 2 rounds, and most people see this fight as razor thin close fight, but to the shock of everybody Mayweather won UD by wide scores of 115-111 116-111 115-111.

Now Mayweather fans would argue that there man landed the cleaner shots, and won most of the early rounds that gave him the nod, they would also argue Castillo's arm punches on the inside wern't that effective.

Castillo fans argued that Castillo was constant aggressor landed the more punches, they would also argue that there man by punch stats had out landed Mayweather by 50 + punches, and had out landed Mayweather by landslide on power shots.

Which ever way you see it there had to be a rematch so it was scheduled for the same year, now this time Mayweather used his movement better and did not allow Castillo to bully him to the ropes. Mayweather used his movement and out boxed Castillo this time, and there was no controversy and Mayweather won clear cut UD.

After this fight Mayweather beat solid contender Victoriano Sosa, now Sosa had previously knocked down Lightweight world champion Paul Spadafora twice, so he was considered to be a good tough opponent, This was quite a tough fight for Mayweather but he clearly won it by winning clear cut UD.

Phillip N'dou

Now N'dou coming into this fight had 31 wins 30 KO's, N'dou only had 1 loss early in his career, now even though N'dou had solid record he had mostly fought nobodies and had no real names on his record. But never the less N'dou still had high KO percentage and was dangerous puncher. This was Mayweather's 3rd defense of his Lightweight title, the big shock about this fight to viewers, was that Mayweather stood toe to toe with N'dou who was dangerous puncher. and Actually out brawled the tough N'dou the 5th round was considered one of the best rounds of the year. N'dou got a bad beating in this fight he was floored in the 7th, he beat the count but his corner threw in the towel because there man was taking too much of a beating. Viewers after were shocked how offensive Mayweather was and they witnessed a great toe to toe battle.

DeMarcus Corley

Mayweather moved up to Jr Welterweight to fight Corley, now coming into Mayweather fight. Corley had 1 loss early in his career and a loss to Judah, plus he had held WBO Welterweight title, and he had made 2 defenses before losing razor thin SD to Zab Judah. Corley was considered a tough game opponent, when the fight begun it looked like it was going to be another typical Mayweather beat down as Mayweather clearly won first 3 rounds, but in the 4th round Mayweather for the first time in his career was stunned by huge over hand right from Corley, and he rocked back to the ropes. Mayweather used his defensive skills to avoid Corley's punches and he took about 20 seconds to recover, he then begun to make his comeback and started to hammer Corley with right hands, in a back and forth 4th round in which both men were hurt, the round ended with Mayweather dancing about and raising his hands in the air celebrating what an amazing round it was. Now it appeared as if the fight would be tough, but after the 4th round Mayweather dominated Corley flooring him in the 8th and 10th rounds, to win lopsided UD.

After this fight Mayweather took on Cotto's sparring partner Henry Bruseles, now Bruseles was not considered good opponent or etc. And Mayweather easily won TKO in the 8th.

Arturo Gatti

After the Bruseles fight Mayweather took on Arturo Gatti, Now Gatti was considered good opponent but just short of the elite level, but Gatti was on nice winning streak at the time, beating Micky Ward x2 by decision, and beating Gianluca Branco by decision win for Vacant WBO Jr Welterweight title, Branco was 32-0, then Gatti had two good KO victories over Leonard Dorin who was 22-0, and against Jesse James Leija who was former World champion. Then Mayweather vs Gatti was on this was for Jr Welterweight World title and Gatti was making his 3rd title defense. From the opening bell it was a total one sided beating with Gatti getting dropped in the 1st round, after 6th round Gatti was getting totally embarrassed and destroyed, so his corner wisely stopped the fight while Gatti was on his stool and Mayweather won Jr Welterweight title.

Mayweather then moved up to Welterweight to fight Sharmba Mitchell, who was aged 35 but still he was good opponent, Mayweather had an easy time with Mitchell dropping him in the 3th round and then finally stopping him with a body shot in the 6th round.

Zab Judah

After the Sharmba Mitchell Mayweather fought Judah. Now Judah was considered a very skilled fighter, but with mental flaws. Often losing concentration in fights. Coming into Mayweather fight he was KO in 2 by Tszyu in embarrassing fashion, and he lost controversial 12 round decision to Spinks, but he then got himself together beating Rafael Pineda, and revenging his loss to Cory Spinks by stopping him in the 9th. With that victory over Spinks he added IBF, WBA, WBC, World titles to his collection, he was then considered one of the top Welterweights in the world. But in his next fight to the shock of everyone he lost to Carlos Baldomir, losing his WBC title in one of the biggest upsets in recent years. Unfortunately for Mayweather he already scheduled to fight Judah before Judah vs Baldomir happened. So Judah vs Mayweather happened and it was for WBO and IBF titles, Judah got off to a good start winning 3 rounds out of 4, he also floored Mayweather in the early going, but it was ruled no knockdown by the ref. But replays clearly show it was knockdown but the ref's decision is final so it was ruled no knockdown. After 4 rounds Judah was clearly winning the fight but then the fight turned around, Mayweather figured out Judah and started to dominate him, Judah's output got lower and lower, and he seemed to lose concentration like he had done in the past. In the 10th round with Mayweather clearly ahead now, he stunned Judah near the end of the 10th and seemed close to stopping Judah, but then Judah threw low blow followed by rabbit shot right at the end of the 10th, The ref then called time out both fighters went to neural corners, but then Roger Mayweather come into the ring not happy with Judah's fouling, then basically all hell broke loose and a big riot started, it took awhile to get every body under control, but the fight resumed, and Mayweather won clear cut UD in a exciting but strange fight.

Carlos Manuel Baldomir And Antonio Margarito Situation

I already told you earlier how Baldomir upset Judah for Welterweight title, but after Judah fight he also stopped Arturo Gatti in 9th, coming into Mayweather fight he was coming off two good victories over Judah and Gatti, there was a bit off controversy before the fight, with people accusing Mayweather of avoiding Antonio Margarito for 8 million dollars.

Mayweather fans will argue Margarito had not beaten anyone worth mentioning, plus Mayweather was also getting 8 million dollars for fighting recognized Welterweight Champion Carlos Baldomir.

Margarito fans will argue Mayweather looked scared of Margarito when asked about fighting him, also Margarito had held WBO Welterweight title and had made 6 defenses of his title, he also beat a good hard hitting, young respected name like Cintron in impressive fashion.

Whatever you believe Baldomir vs Mayweather still happened so lets move on, Baldomir was recognized as Welterweight champion and was coming off two good victories like i mentioned earlier, when the fight started Mayweather easily out boxed Baldomir winning every round in a boring encounter. With some of the crowd even walking out but Mayweather won lopsided 12 round UD.


Oscar De La Hoya

After the Baldomir fight Mayweather then moved up to Light Middleweight to fight Oscar De La Hoya. Now there was different opinions on this fight.

Some people believed Oscar De La Hoya was past his peak with a bad performance against Felix Sturm, and getting KO by Bernard Hopkins.

Other people would argue that those fights vs Hopkins, Sturm, were at Weight class Oscar De La Hoya wasn't comfortable at. Plus at Light Middleweight he had beaten Vargas, Campas, Mayorga, and lost controversial decision to Shane Mosley. In some of Oscar De La Hoya's finest performances.

Which ever way you want to look at it, the fight went ahead and it generated loads of interest. It was one of the biggest fights in years. So the fight started and Oscar De La Hoya would try and pin Mayweather on the ropes and use eye catching flurries to try and steal the rounds, But the only problem was that Oscar De La Hoya's flurries were missing most of the time and Mayweather was countering Oscar De La Hoya with good success, it seemed close after 9 rounds. But Mayweather then took over winning the later rounds, with Mayweather winning SD.

Ricky Hatton

Now coming into Mayweather fight, Hatton was 43-0 and had some good victories over, Tszyu, Castillo, Collazo. Some fans wern't quite sure on this match up.

Fans would argue that Hatton isn't an elite Welterweight, and he struggled badly in his only Welterweight fight Winning controversial decision against Collazo, plus his best wins come against fighters who were past there prime like Castillo, Tszyu.

Other fans would argue that Hatton didn't take Collazo seriously, and only had 5 weeks to train and he didn't have time to properly adjust to the weight. Plus when Hatton beat Tszyu he was rated P4P number 3, and also Castillo had never KO coming into Hatton fight.

Which ever side you was on the fight went ahead at Welterweight, Hatton would try and bully Mayweather onto the ropes and rough him up on the inside, but Mayweather was also effective on the inside. And to the surprise of many fans Mayweather was actually beating Hatton on the inside, after about 3rd round Mayweather started to take control showing his class he started to out box Hatton. In the 6th Hatton had point deducted for hitting Mayweather on the back of the head, the fight resumed and Mayweather still was out boxing Hatton on the inside. And in the 10th round he hit Hatton with a solid left hook and Hatton went face first into turnbuckle. He got up but obviously shaken Mayweather then went on the attack and hit Hatton with combination and Hatton fell backwards, and the ref stopped the fight.

Some people believe Cortez was unfair to Hatton not allowing him to work on inside, others believe that Cortez was cautioning both men and that he was fair.

Mayweather's record now stands at 39 wins, 25 KO, 0 losses,

With World titles in Super Feathweight, Lightweight, Jr Welterweight, Welterweight, Light Middleweight.


Also i want to bring up one last point which i started in my other thread which i started yesterday, fans never seem to be happy with boxers winning multiple World titles in different weight classes, nor do they seem happy with boxers dominating 1 division. If a boxer dominates 1 division they accuse him of facing weak opposition, if a boxer wins World titles in different weight classes. They accuse them of skipping through the divisions and not dominating that division.

There is no denying that Floyd is a great fighter. His choice of opponent does on occasion leave me somewhat bewildered though. Maybe thats the sticking point.

i really put it down to the fact he is such an arogant prick, that some dont like him , so in affect dont think he is great,
but for me hes pure GREATNESS , but also a prick :)

CC ice

Great Read

Personally i think a lot of people are going to point at his lack of top quality opposition....even tho is resume is very good. Problem is, he is that far infront of everyone skills wise, it's hard to put him in with anybody who has anymore than a punchers chance of beating him.

Floyd needs fighters of SRL, Duran, Hagler, Hearns standard to pit his wits against and frankly that level of opposition just aint around.

Until he is in a war with another well known fighter (cotto maybe) or even until he loses, Floyd will always have doubters. You see, if Floyd is in a close, exciting fight or if he actually loses, people will have more positive things to say about today's era.

Same problem with Calzaghe until he beat Kessler. If Calzaghe had have absolutely pummelled Kessler, Kessler would have suddenly become another Jeff Lacy and the haters would be saying 'ooo look calzaghe beat another over hyped fighter, big deal'

Same thing happens with Mayweather. If you look at the betting on here, for his last 2 fights it has been pretty much a 50-50 split.....basically both seemed like 2 even fights. It's only when floyd wins that the excuses come out and the nay-sayers start with the 'margarito would kill floyd' threads.

IMO he is a great and skills wise he is up there with the very very best. I think he should fight Cotto.....but i think Cotto needs another high profile victory for the fight to have an effect on Floyd's legacy.

does anyone think that PBF can become the greatest boxer ever with what competion he has left to face?

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Originally Posted by ono

CC ice

Great Read

Personally i think a lot of people are going to point at his lack of top quality opposition....even tho is resume is very good. Problem is, he is that far infront of everyone skills wise, it's hard to put him in with anybody who has anymore than a punchers chance of beating him.

Floyd needs fighters of SRL, Duran, Hagler, Hearns standard to pit his wits against and frankly that level of opposition just aint around.

Until he is in a war with another well known fighter (cotto maybe) or even until he loses, Floyd will always have doubters. You see, if Floyd is in a close, exciting fight or if he actually loses, people will have more positive things to say about today's era.

Same problem with Calzaghe until he beat Kessler. If Calzaghe had have absolutely pummelled Kessler, Kessler would have suddenly become another Jeff Lacy and the haters would be saying 'ooo look calzaghe beat another over hyped fighter, big deal'

Same thing happens with Mayweather. If you look at the betting on here, for his last 2 fights it has been pretty much a 50-50 split.....basically both seemed like 2 even fights. It's only when floyd wins that the excuses come out and the nay-sayers start with the 'margarito would kill floyd' threads.

IMO he is a great and skills wise he is up there with the very very best. I think he should fight Cotto.....but i think Cotto needs another high profile victory for the fight to have an effect on Floyd's legacy.

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CC ice

Great Read

Thanks i spent almost 2 hours typing that all up :coolclick: back.

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Originally Posted by Ricardo Finito Lopez

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Originally Posted by ono

CC ice

Great Read

Personally i think a lot of people are going to point at his lack of top quality opposition....even tho is resume is very good. Problem is, he is that far infront of everyone skills wise, it's hard to put him in with anybody who has anymore than a punchers chance of beating him.

Floyd needs fighters of SRL, Duran, Hagler, Hearns standard to pit his wits against and frankly that level of opposition just aint around.

Until he is in a war with another well known fighter (cotto maybe) or even until he loses, Floyd will always have doubters. You see, if Floyd is in a close, exciting fight or if he actually loses, people will have more positive things to say about today's era.

Same problem with Calzaghe until he beat Kessler. If Calzaghe had have absolutely pummelled Kessler, Kessler would have suddenly become another Jeff Lacy and the haters would be saying 'ooo look calzaghe beat another over hyped fighter, big deal'

Same thing happens with Mayweather. If you look at the betting on here, for his last 2 fights it has been pretty much a 50-50 split.....basically both seemed like 2 even fights. It's only when floyd wins that the excuses come out and the nay-sayers start with the 'margarito would kill floyd' threads.

IMO he is a great and skills wise he is up there with the very very best. I think he should fight Cotto.....but i think Cotto needs another high profile victory for the fight to have an effect on Floyd's legacy.

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CC ice

Great Read

Thanks i spent almost 2 hours typing that all up :coolclick: back.

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Your CC will have to wait for Karma to run its course.

I'll make sure ya get it tomorrow.

I was going to ask how long it took. lol.

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Originally Posted by Ricardo Finito Lopez

He has also won multiple World titles in 5 different weight classes, and i can only think of 6 other boxers in the history of the sport that have achieved that. Oscar De La Hoya, Thomas Hearns, Ray Leonard, James Toney, Lester Ellis, Roberto Duran, Mayweather is only the 7th boxer in the history of boxing to achieve that so that achievement alone ranks him up there as one of the greats IMO.

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alphabet titles. I am sure that any decent fighter from the past could have done the same thing if they lived in the era of alphabet soup champions. How many times was he really THE WORLD CHAMP like he is now in the WW division, and how many times was he just holding meaningless alphabet trinkets.

That being said Mayweather will be remembered as a great fighter by anyones standards. But calling hiim a 5x champion is like calling holyfield a 4x world champ or Herbie Hide a 2x world champion.

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Originally Posted by lance Uppercut

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Originally Posted by Ricardo Finito Lopez

He has also won multiple World titles in 5 different weight classes, and i can only think of 6 other boxers in the history of the sport that have achieved that. Oscar De La Hoya, Thomas Hearns, Ray Leonard, James Toney, Lester Ellis, Roberto Duran, Mayweather is only the 7th boxer in the history of boxing to achieve that so that achievement alone ranks him up there as one of the greats IMO.

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alphabet titles. I am sure that any decent fighter from the past could have done the same thing if they lived in the era of alphabet soup champions. How many times was he really THE WORLD CHAMP like he is now in the WW division, and how many times was he just holding meaningless alphabet trinkets.

That being said Mayweather will be remembered as a great fighter by anyones standards. But calling hiim a 5x champion is like calling holyfield a 4x world champ or Herbie Hide a 2x world champion.

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alphabet titles. I am sure that any decent fighter from the past could have done the same thing if they lived in the era of alphabet soup champions. How many times was he really THE WORLD CHAMP like he is now in the WW division, and how many times was he just holding meaningless alphabet trinkets.

You see what i mean ?? this is my exact point of fans that will criticize fighters, for winning World titles in multiple weight classes and not dominating that division. But they will always criticize fighters who dominate only 1 division, but then they accuse them of facing weak opposition.

It takes a lot of dedication to move up in weight and still maintain fitness, muscle, etc. Boxers have to go on crazy diets etc. And your telling me any decent fighter from the past would have achieved what Mayweather has ??

That being said Mayweather will be remembered as a great fighter by anyones standards. But calling hiim a 5x champion is like calling holyfield a 4x world champ or Herbie Hide a 2x world champion.

No it isn't because they lost there titles and then regained it thats totally different.

Its simply because his career is not over yet. He is great. But most fighters have there toughest fights in there 30's. So let his career play out first. Time will tell, be patient.

Ive always thought he comes up short thougth a very good fighter, why Im not sure. Probably Ive seen to much Boxing in my life and its hard to get excited. I bet hes not a bad lad either when you get to know him I dont hate on anyone, Im to old for all that Bollocks. I just dont think theres the quality there was the numbers in the game and competition isnt what it was. Im one of those that remembers when Men Were Men and women were glad of it, when there werent the distractions that there are now ;D

Floyd is Great he is in the top 15 of all time in my book.

I don't think anyone really questions whether he is a great boxer or not. They have just been critical of his competition pre 2007.That's all.He's answered the critics,for now.

I cant see not seeing Floyd as great
Through his career I may not have cared for his attitude,but there's no denying his abilities
Even there,the Hatton fight softened me a bit about him.He was very classy in victory,that can sometimes be harder by far then being classy in defeat.

PBF is the best in his time but to call any boxer the best of all time just can't be proved training methods & multi weight groups have made it easy for today's boxers to pick up more titles than were open to fighters of days gone by.In over 50 years of watching boxing I would put him with SRR, Ali,& SRL as the best I've had the pleasure to watch