Sugar Ray Leonard:why do some hate him/think he was over rated?
I was just wondering why the hate on SRL? I've seen him being dissed on older threads and called over rated and manipulative. I was not a boxing fan at the time,so I was just wondering why some of you thought this? Did something happen? All I see is a guy who fought some of the best fighters of all time and beat them. A master boxer.
Re: Sugar Ray Leonard:why do some hate him/think he was over rated?
I'm guessing the reason some people hate him is because he was cocky and liked to showboat. Also, he was the media "golden boy" at the time, much the way Oscar has been in this generation. Some people don't like that.
As for the overrated thing, part of it probably stems from the fact that he got a couple controversial decisions. Many people thought Hagler beat him, and just about everyone thinks that Hearns beat him in their rematch.
Re: Sugar Ray Leonard:why do some hate him/think he was over rated?
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Originally Posted by SweetPea
I'm guessing the reason some people hate him is because he was cocky and liked to showboat. Also, he was the media "golden boy" at the time, much the way Oscar has been in this generation. Some people don't like that.
As for the overrated thing, part of it probably stems from the fact that he got a couple controversial decisions. Many people thought Hagler beat him, and just about everyone thinks that Hearns beat him in their rematch.
I personally don't think he is overrated mainly because I think his controversial decisions against Hagler and Hearns are irrelavent. He still fought a hell of a fight against one of the greatest Middleweights of all time after a 3 year lay off and fighting at that weight for the first time in his career.
And as for the Hearns rematch. Who cares, they were both passed it by then and win or lose it would've meant nothing to Leonards legacy. He had already beat Hearns when they were in their primes.
Re: Sugar Ray Leonard:why do some hate him/think he was over rated?
Very true but beating Ray woulda meant a hell of a lot more to Tommy. I think Tommy would fiight him again tommorow if he could.
Re: Sugar Ray Leonard:why do some hate him/think he was over rated?
Simply, that he did not beat Hagler and he ran from Duran in 1980.
Re: Sugar Ray Leonard:why do some hate him/think he was over rated?
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Originally Posted by gally
Very true but beating Ray woulda meant a hell of a lot more to Tommy. I think Tommy would fiight him again tommorow if he could.
You are right there. I meant more form a legacy stand point. I'm sure that fight meant a lot for Hearns and for his fans.
Re: Sugar Ray Leonard:why do some hate him/think he was over rated?
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Originally Posted by El Gamo
I was just wondering why the hate on SRL? I've seen him being dissed on older threads and called over rated and manipulative. I was not a boxing fan at the time,so I was just wondering why some of you thought this? Did something happen? All I see is a guy who fought some of the best fighters of all time and beat them. A master boxer.
I just think he picked some of his fights very well i mean he ducked Aaron Pryor, lets remember Pryor went to press conference and kept calling Leonard out. But Leonard kept ignoring him and didn't want to know, Pryor also used to beat up on Leonard in sparring i think Leonard see Pryor as too dangerous at that time but whatever the reason he certainly ducked him IMO. He was also supposed to fight Hagler in the early 80s but he waited until he see Mugabi vs Hagler where Hagler looked past his best. And also Leonard only fought Hagler on his demands. Bigger ring size, 12 rounds instead of 15 rounds etc. But i still admire Leonard coming back from a long lay off to beat Hagler like that because that was amazing. But still he only fought Hagler because he see a great opportunity when Hagler didn't look nowhere near his best in the Mugabi fight. And if the fight would of been 15 rounds he certainly would of lost.
Also the rematch with Hearns he waited 8 years to give Hearns a rematch, and he only gave Hearns a rematch because he thought Hearns was a shot fighter after seeing Iran Barkley KO Hearns. And lets not forget the absolute joke decision in this fight.
I think Leonard was a great a boxer and he has a great resume, i think he picked some of his fights very well and waited just at the right moment. But overall great boxer one of the best of the 80s.
Re: Sugar Ray Leonard:why do some hate him/think he was over rated?
I think he was great, just not as great as a lot of people think, i.e I don't think he is an all time top 10 p4per. I know it means nothing now, but had the 1st Hearns fight been 12 rounds Leonard would've lost a very clear decision, although I do give him massive credit for stopping Hearns eventually.
I think the fact that he did not seem to love the game like some other fighters and was always either threatening to retire or actually retiring and then making a comeback didn't exactly indere him to people
Re: Sugar Ray Leonard:why do some hate him/think he was over rated?
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Originally Posted by Ice Cold Boxing
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Originally Posted by El Gamo
I was just wondering why the hate on SRL? I've seen him being dissed on older threads and called over rated and manipulative. I was not a boxing fan at the time,so I was just wondering why some of you thought this? Did something happen? All I see is a guy who fought some of the best fighters of all time and beat them. A master boxer.
I just think he picked some of his fights very well i mean he ducked Aaron Pryor, lets remember Pryor went to press conference and kept calling Leonard out. But Leonard kept ignoring him and didn't want to know, Pryor also used to beat up on Leonard in sparring i think Leonard see Pryor as too dangerous at that time but whatever the reason he certainly ducked him IMO. He was also supposed to fight Hagler in the early 80s but he waited until he see Mugabi vs Hagler where Hagler looked past his best. And also Leonard only fought Hagler on his demands. Bigger ring size, 12 rounds instead of 15 rounds etc. But i still admire Leonard coming back from a long lay off to beat Hagler like that because that was amazing. But still he only fought Hagler because he see a great opportunity when Hagler didn't look nowhere near his best in the Mugabi fight. And if the fight would of been 15 rounds he certainly would of lost.
Also the rematch with Hearns he waited 8 years to give Hearns a rematch, and he only gave Hearns a rematch because he thought Hearns was a shot fighter after seeing Iran Barkley KO Hearns. And lets not forget the absolute joke decision in this fight.
I think Leonard was a great a boxer and he has a great resume, i think he picked some of his fights very well and waited just at the right moment. But overall great boxer one of the best of the 80s.
You make some excellent points there but I don't agree with the SRL ducking Pryor. Sure Pryor called him out and maybe he did beat on him in sparring but I find it hard to think the same SRL who fought the feared Duran,the same SRL who fought the feared Hearns and the same SRL who fought the feared Hagler coming from a 3 year lay off,I find it hard to think he would duck Aaron Pryor. There's no real concrete evidence for it.
When was Pryor calling out Leonrad,on the timescale?Who was Leonard going to fight at the time?
Re: Sugar Ray Leonard:why do some hate him/think he was over rated?
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Originally Posted by El Gamo
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Originally Posted by Ice Cold Boxing
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Originally Posted by El Gamo
I was just wondering why the hate on SRL? I've seen him being dissed on older threads and called over rated and manipulative. I was not a boxing fan at the time,so I was just wondering why some of you thought this? Did something happen? All I see is a guy who fought some of the best fighters of all time and beat them. A master boxer.
I just think he picked some of his fights very well i mean he ducked Aaron Pryor, lets remember Pryor went to press conference and kept calling Leonard out. But Leonard kept ignoring him and didn't want to know, Pryor also used to beat up on Leonard in sparring i think Leonard see Pryor as too dangerous at that time but whatever the reason he certainly ducked him IMO. He was also supposed to fight Hagler in the early 80s but he waited until he see Mugabi vs Hagler where Hagler looked past his best. And also Leonard only fought Hagler on his demands. Bigger ring size, 12 rounds instead of 15 rounds etc. But i still admire Leonard coming back from a long lay off to beat Hagler like that because that was amazing. But still he only fought Hagler because he see a great opportunity when Hagler didn't look nowhere near his best in the Mugabi fight. And if the fight would of been 15 rounds he certainly would of lost.
Also the rematch with Hearns he waited 8 years to give Hearns a rematch, and he only gave Hearns a rematch because he thought Hearns was a shot fighter after seeing Iran Barkley KO Hearns. And lets not forget the absolute joke decision in this fight.
I think Leonard was a great a boxer and he has a great resume, i think he picked some of his fights very well and waited just at the right moment. But overall great boxer one of the best of the 80s.
You make some excellent points there but I don't agree with the SRL ducking Pryor. Sure Pryor called him out and maybe he did beat on him in sparring but I find it hard to think the same SRL who fought the feared Duran,the same SRL who fought the feared Hearns and the same SRL who fought the feared Hagler coming from a 3 year lay off,I find it hard to think he would duck Aaron Pryor. There's no real concrete evidence for it.
When was Pryor calling out Leonrad,on the timescale?Who was Leonard going to fight at the time?
El Gamo what you must realize is that even in the Amateurs this was happening. Leonard moved up a weight class even in the Amateurs to avoid fighting Pryor. Plus i even remember Leonard saying he would never fight Pryor because of the styles. Although i will be fair to Leonard and say Pryor didn't ever really try and force the fight by moving up to Welterweight, just depends on the way you see it. I also slightly agree that Leonard fought Hagler, Duran, so why would he have ducked Pryor ?? maybe Leonard saw it as a big risk fight with little reward ?? remember a lot of people considered Pryor a threat but because there was no big names at Jr Welterweight he had no real bargaining power to force the fight, by the time Pryor beat Arguello Leonard had retired. So maybe it was just the wrong time for Pryor ?? but i also felt little sorry for Pryor because even when he was scheduled to fight Ray Mancini, Mancini got upset by Livingstone Bramble.
Re: Sugar Ray Leonard:why do some hate him/think he was over rated?
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Originally Posted by Ice Cold Boxing
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Originally Posted by El Gamo
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Originally Posted by Ice Cold Boxing
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Originally Posted by El Gamo
I was just wondering why the hate on SRL? I've seen him being dissed on older threads and called over rated and manipulative. I was not a boxing fan at the time,so I was just wondering why some of you thought this? Did something happen? All I see is a guy who fought some of the best fighters of all time and beat them. A master boxer.
I just think he picked some of his fights very well i mean he ducked Aaron Pryor, lets remember Pryor went to press conference and kept calling Leonard out. But Leonard kept ignoring him and didn't want to know, Pryor also used to beat up on Leonard in sparring i think Leonard see Pryor as too dangerous at that time but whatever the reason he certainly ducked him IMO. He was also supposed to fight Hagler in the early 80s but he waited until he see Mugabi vs Hagler where Hagler looked past his best. And also Leonard only fought Hagler on his demands. Bigger ring size, 12 rounds instead of 15 rounds etc. But i still admire Leonard coming back from a long lay off to beat Hagler like that because that was amazing. But still he only fought Hagler because he see a great opportunity when Hagler didn't look nowhere near his best in the Mugabi fight. And if the fight would of been 15 rounds he certainly would of lost.
Also the rematch with Hearns he waited 8 years to give Hearns a rematch, and he only gave Hearns a rematch because he thought Hearns was a shot fighter after seeing Iran Barkley KO Hearns. And lets not forget the absolute joke decision in this fight.
I think Leonard was a great a boxer and he has a great resume, i think he picked some of his fights very well and waited just at the right moment. But overall great boxer one of the best of the 80s.
You make some excellent points there but I don't agree with the SRL ducking Pryor. Sure Pryor called him out and maybe he did beat on him in sparring but I find it hard to think the same SRL who fought the feared Duran,the same SRL who fought the feared Hearns and the same SRL who fought the feared Hagler coming from a 3 year lay off,I find it hard to think he would duck Aaron Pryor. There's no real concrete evidence for it.
When was Pryor calling out Leonrad,on the timescale?Who was Leonard going to fight at the time?
El Gamo what you must realize is that even in the Amateurs this was happening. Leonard moved up a weight class even in the Amateurs to avoid fighting Pryor. Plus i even remember Leonard saying he would never fight Pryor because of the styles. Although i will be fair to Leonard and say Pryor didn't ever really try and force the fight by moving up to Welterweight, just depends on the way you see it. I also slightly agree that Leonard fought Hagler, Duran, so why would he have ducked Pryor ?? maybe Leonard saw it as a big risk fight with little reward ?? remember a lot of people considered Pryor a threat but because there was no big names at Jr Welterweight he had no real bargaining power to force the fight, by the time Pryor beat Arguello Leonard had retired. So maybe it was just the wrong time for Pryor ?? but i also felt little sorry for Pryor because even when he was scheduled to fight Ray Mancini, Mancini got upset by Livingstone Bramble.
ICB fair enough on your opinion. However check in search for a thread bout if SRL ducked Pryor and you will see a very good post from Britkid (who HATES leonard) explaining how at the time it was more a less impossible for them to meet. Also about Hagler looking not all that great against Mugabi....remember SRL looked very average against Kevin Howard and was knocked down for the first time. Add that to a long lay off and a detached retina which could of made him blind, also that he went up in weight and you have to say Leonard had the uphill struggle from day one compared to hagler.
Re: Sugar Ray Leonard:why do some hate him/think he was over rated?
No way was he overrated. He fought and beat the best in one of the best eras of boxing. Every boxers can be picked apart though and faults can be found, but there is no such thing as a perfect fighter. Leonard was pretty damn close though.
Re: Sugar Ray Leonard:why do some hate him/think he was over rated?
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Originally Posted by BoomBoom
No way was he overrated. He fought and beat the best in one of the best eras of boxing. Every boxers can be picked apart though and faults can be found, but there is no such thing as a perfect fighter. Leonard was pretty damn close though.
yeah thats true and it could be argued that we never got to see him during his prime years. I think he was 25 the first time he retired....imagine him between the ages of 25-28 if he carried the form from the Hearns fight on. People say he ducked Pryor but if Pryor stepped out to welter SRL had far too much for him IMO. He was faster, smarter and he could brawl if he needed to.
Re: Sugar Ray Leonard:why do some hate him/think he was over rated?
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Originally Posted by cockey cockney
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Originally Posted by BoomBoom
No way was he overrated. He fought and beat the best in one of the best eras of boxing. Every boxers can be picked apart though and faults can be found, but there is no such thing as a perfect fighter. Leonard was pretty damn close though.
yeah thats true and it could be argued that we never got to see him during his prime years. I think he was 25 the first time he retired....imagine him between the ages of 25-28 if he carried the form from the Hearns fight on. People say he ducked Pryor but if Pryor stepped out to welter SRL had far too much for him IMO. He was faster, smarter and he could brawl if he needed to.
True, I think the Hagler fight was his last great performace reguardless of the contraversy. He was past his prime. Some people criticize him for his performance against Ladone but he was past it and everything he had left, was left in the ring with Hagler the fight before....I agree Pryor would have had a hard time cause of the weight and SRLs movement.
Re: Sugar Ray Leonard:why do some hate him/think he was over rated?
For a 5 year period, before Charly got him he was the best fighter Ive seen Live. The bastard had good looks atheletic great skills could take a shot could punch had a big pair off balls and never bottled it. He was what everybody secretly wanted to be, and a lot of people were sick because they never had a chance of getting near to what he had he was special, The flash cunt ;D
