Theres a specific period in boxing that i know nothing about....

Light Middleweight and Middleweight from about 1985-1993. And also a bit beyond that...

Im speaking of the legacy created by fighters like Mike McCullum, Sumbu Kalambay, Julian Jackson, Terry Norris, Michael Nunn, Tim Littles, Frankie Liles, Herol Graham & Steve Little.

All these fighters... They make up a huge part of the story which once starred what Sugar Ray Leonard, Marvin Hagler and Thomas Hearns... That now features Joe Calzaghe, Bernard Hopkins and Winky Wright.

Theres a huge (and much debated) gap in boxing history that im not up on and i kinda dont know where to start ???


Anyone willing to give a history lesson? :D

i kno most the history of it but i dont want to be here forever revealing it,i will though talk about a few of the boxers u mentioned...

Herol Graham was an English tricky switch hitter,he's similar to junior witter 2day,was avoided by all the big names,prob the best fighter of the last 20 years to never win a world title,excellent fighter....

Julian Jackson was prob pound for pound the biggest puncher in the world at the time,awesome ko artist,his best ko was prob the one on herol graham,one of the biggest punchers ever....

Mike Mc Callum was a great fighter,nicknamed the body snatcher,one of the best body punchers ever,also avoided by the big names,beat good names like Julian Jackson,don curry...

Thanks Fin. Iv actually seen the Graham Jackson fight. Not a nice thing to see an uncouncious man on the floor still brathing hard :-X

But i know squat about there respective careers. Thanks man.

Any more info anyone?

You know what...I like this post.

Very nice. I'm clicking you on the grounds that I think many fight fans often find it hard to 'fess up to matters of this sort. There's a well about fiddy feet deep of matters that I don't know in the sport...I just never dipped the bucket in much outside of 160 & 168lbs for the first 10-15 years of my obsession.

After that...I dropped down in the weights.

I'd rather know alot about what I do love & less about what's surrounding it. Concentrating on what I know instead of spewing meaningless facts (or facts that mean less to me than what I am truely interested in) & statistics abound regarding each & every fighter across the board...there's where I feel like the love is lost.

Anywho... :coolclick: my young son! ;D

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Originally Posted by wacko3205

You know what...I like this post.

Very nice. I'm clicking you on the grounds that I think many fight fans often find it hard to 'fess up to matters of this sort. There's a well about fiddy feet deep of matters that I don't know in the sport...I just never dipped the bucket in much outside of 160 & 168lbs for the first 10-15 years of my obsession.

After that...I dropped down in the weights.

I'd rather know alot about what I do love & less about what's surrounding it. Concentrating on what I know instead of spewing meaningless facts (or facts that mean less to me than what I am truely interested in) & statistics abound regarding each & every fighter across the board...there's where I feel like the love is lost.

Anywho... :coolclick: my young son! ;D

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I was somewhat like you Wacko. I myself, back in the day, never paid much mind to the lower weight classes below lightweight barring a few exceptions. Boxing back then had many big stars in the upper weight classes and there was always something going on. For the past few years I find myself moving down in weight classes and appreciating what they offer.

There was a time when Lightweight to Middleweight, in the 80's and 90's, had so much talent, that even with the good fighters in there now, it simply pales in comparison to back then. Heavyweight is completely dead now compared to then. So it is natural for most of us to look lower in the weight classes to get our fill of the fight game.

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Originally Posted by wacko3205

You know what...I like this post.

Very nice. I'm clicking you on the grounds that I think many fight fans often find it hard to 'fess up to matters of this sort. There's a well about fiddy feet deep of matters that I don't know in the sport...I just never dipped the bucket in much outside of 160 & 168lbs for the first 10-15 years of my obsession.

After that...I dropped down in the weights.

I'd rather know alot about what I do love & less about what's surrounding it. Concentrating on what I know instead of spewing meaningless facts (or facts that mean less to me than what I am truely interested in) & statistics abound regarding each & every fighter across the board...there's where I feel like the love is lost.

Anywho... :coolclick: my young son! ;D

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I like your nice reply to the nice post Wack so can I have a coolclick too? :yes:

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Originally Posted by Jimafee

Mike McCullum

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A superb amateur turned pro in the ams he beat fighters like Starling, DeWitt, Simms. Lost to Ramos.
Nicknamed 'The Bodysnatcher' for his superb body attack and what an all around fighter he was. Highly avoided in his prime by the best, IMO argueably the greatest Light Middle of all time. My favorite Mike fight has to be vs. Watson and his destruction of The Hawk was incredible.

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Originally Posted by Jimafee

Sumbu Kalambay

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One of Italys greatest (African born) he's a nationalized Italian. Up there with Sandro as the greatest Italians to lace up the gloves.
Was on a great roll but that KO loss to Nunn was devastating, after that he then went on to loose to McCallum and he also got 1 over Collins early in Collins career now that I think about it so did McCallum. Think Sumbu also got win number 2 over Graham in the rematch years later after the looses to Nunn & Mike.

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Originally Posted by Jimafee

Julian Jackson

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P4P one of the hardest punchers of all time, one punch KO artist. The Hawk was a bad muthafucka! man....
His career set of 61 fights for the most part it must all fit in about 3 discs since most fights ended by KO including the ones he lost.
His coming out party vs. Chul Baek was beautiful....
The way he chops down Drayton was fucken crazy....
His 2nd round destruction of Norris was a thing of beauty and truely shows the kind of raw power he had...
Do I really need to comment on his KO over Graham, I mean really?
I really gotta admit the KO loses he suffered to the G-Man were fucken devastating to him.
When he fought Taylor I had Jackson up by 1 point and then BAM! good night Jackson.
Watching him loose to Vince sucked, he was doing OK but it was obvious he was in over his head.

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Originally Posted by Jimafee

Terry Norris

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'Terrible' Terry... Yet another bad muthafucka! This dude stepped in the ring and just like Jackson you knew he meant business when he was in there.
Argueably the greatest Light Middle ever (he and Mike could have an arguement) anothe hard puncher....
Sucks that he had some mentaility issues there and the mind played tricks on him, I think hes those type of fighters who just couldn't control himself once he went off. I mean really who looses 2 fights back to back by DQ?
Golota :-X Get the picture?
The thing about Norris was that early in his career he showed tremendous boxing skills but the KO came often and well that he became a puncher. But I think he had the skills to outbox anyone if he needed to.
Love his fight vs. Meldrick pretty eben fight both guys moving well and just wating for the other to make a mistake and capatalize Norris check mates and takes out Meldrick. The Simon fight was an damn! exciting and well forgotten fight that changed winner at least one time per round. Norris had Simon, I mean done. But Norris just couldn't finish Simon, I think Norris let off a little would Norris have pressed on more he would have finished Simon but he gave Simon the time and room to get himself together. Big mistake Simon takes his ass out in fashion. His last fights are hard to see also like most fights that come at the end of career where you know the fighter would have blasted them out would he be in his prime.

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Originally Posted by Jimafee

Michael Nunn

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Talk about rising to fame and thinking your unstopable and your king of the world and then just like that your ass loses.
I mean he started his career beating a fighter like Ramos, Knoxx by the time he beat Tate his attitude had already changed he then sparks out Sumbu early I think the 2rd round and shit! Nunn was on cloud 9... Brings his ass to Los Angeles and changed his life style big house, nice cars and all that.... Struggles with Barkley in that fight I had him wining by 2 points. So now that he was Mr. Hollywood he fights Toney and get's KTFO! twice. Have you ever seen someone get KTFO! twice in 1 fight?
I still don't know how in the hell Nunn got up from that fuken hook that almost took his head off. If memory serves me right as the ref. counts to 8 and is about to say 9 Nunn jumps off his ass and stands up :o I have no idea how he lost to Liles & Steve :(
IMO, Nunn had the potential to do so much more then what he accomplished.....

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Originally Posted by Jimafee

Tim Littles & Frankie Liles

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The only thing I wanna say about these two is there 2nd fight is one of the most entertaining fights you can see it had it all wresteling, biting, throwing, kicking and a devastating KO. ;)
These two had some good ones but IMO they fall short compared to the rest as far as career & accomplishments. Especially Littles

Took me a while to put this together so you better read it. ;D

Kinda continuing on from what the guys were saying.....

Norris and McCallum are for me maybe 1 and 2 best Light Middles I've ever seen. Unreal!

Michael Nunn was another respected fighter who could box but he got decimated by Toney.

You must recall the late eighties heralded the "golden era" of British Lihghjt Middles and Middles also.

Michael Watson competed at Light Middle initially, he lost to Mike McCallum early in his career, well before the Eubank fights.

Steven Collins came late to the scene, he was said to have been avoided by many, but was beaten by a wide decision, again by McCallum.

I'm sure you know of the careers of Benn and Eubank.

Gerald McClellan was a title holder at 154 and 160 toward the nineties. His two fights with Jackson, surprisingly ended by a KO. No surprise that a Jackson fight ended by KO, but it was Gerald doing the KOing, twice!

Running from then on were the careers of B-Hop and Roy Jones.

Mick, wow, thank you very much! That was exactly what i was after! I owe you a bout 5 CC's for that!!! ;)

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

You must recall the late eighties heralded the "golden era" of British Light Middles and Middles also.

I'm sure you know of the careers of Benn and Eubank.

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Yeah see thats the thing. That time period i was refering to, in my mind, kinda goes from Tommy Hearns to Iran Barkley to Nigel Benn... without mention of all these fighters.
For me, Light Middleweight started when Oscar KO'ed Vargas ::**

Its wierd, James Toney is one of my all time favorite fighters so you'd guess id know more about his opponents and etc.

Anyway, its been an educating experience ;D CC's all round

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Originally Posted by Jimafee

Mick, wow, thank you very much! That was exactly what i was after! I owe you a bout 5 CC's for that!!! ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

You must recall the late eighties heralded the "golden era" of British Light Middles and Middles also.

I'm sure you know of the careers of Benn and Eubank.

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Yeah see thats the thing. That time period i was refering to, in my mind, kinda goes from Tommy Hearns to Iran Barkley to Nigel Benn... without mention of all these fighters.
For me, Light Middleweight started when Oscar KO'ed Vargas ::**

Its wierd, James Toney is one of my all time favorite fighters so you'd guess id know more about his opponents and etc.

Anyway, its been an educating experience ;D CC's all round

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iN HONESTY i THINK WE'RE ALL A LITTLE LIKE THAT, EACH HAS THEIR OWN PERSONAL FAVOURITE FIGHTER'S AND ERA AND MAY CONCENTRATE ON THOSE FIGHTER'S RATHER THAN ANOTHER ERA, WE'RE ALL ALIKE! i GUESS THATS THE GREAT THING ABOUT HAVING A FORUM LIKE SADDO'S SO MANY DIFFERENT OUTLOOKS, OPINIONS AND PERSPECTIOVES MAKE A GOOD EDUCATION.

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

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Originally Posted by Jimafee

Mike McCullum

---

A superb amateur turned pro in the ams he beat fighters like Starling, DeWitt, Simms. Lost to Ramos.
Nicknamed 'The Bodysnatcher' for his superb body attack and what an all around fighter he was. Highly avoided in his prime by the best, IMO argueably the greatest Light Middle of all time. My favorite Mike fight has to be vs. Watson and his destruction of The Hawk was incredible.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jimafee

Sumbu Kalambay

---

One of Italys greatest (African born) he's a nationalized Italian. Up there with Sandro as the greatest Italians to lace up the gloves.
Was on a great roll but that KO loss to Nunn was devastating, after that he then went on to loose to McCallum and he also got 1 over Collins early in Collins career now that I think about it so did McCallum. Think Sumbu also got win number 2 over Graham in the rematch years later after the looses to Nunn & Mike.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jimafee

Julian Jackson

---

P4P one of the hardest punchers of all time, one punch KO artist. The Hawk was a bad muthafucka! man....
His career set of 61 fights for the most part it must all fit in about 3 discs since most fights ended by KO including the ones he lost.
His coming out party vs. Chul Baek was beautiful....
The way he chops down Drayton was fucken crazy....
His 2nd round destruction of Norris was a thing of beauty and truely shows the kind of raw power he had...
Do I really need to comment on his KO over Graham, I mean really?
I really gotta admit the KO loses he suffered to the G-Man were fucken devastating to him.
When he fought Taylor I had Jackson up by 1 point and then BAM! good night Jackson.
Watching him loose to Vince sucked, he was doing OK but it was obvious he was in over his head.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jimafee

Terry Norris

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'Terrible' Terry... Yet another bad muthafucka! This dude stepped in the ring and just like Jackson you knew he meant business when he was in there.
Argueably the greatest Light Middle ever (he and Mike could have an arguement) anothe hard puncher....
Sucks that he had some mentaility issues there and the mind played tricks on him, I think hes those type of fighters who just couldn't control himself once he went off. I mean really who looses 2 fights back to back by DQ?
Golota :-X Get the picture?
The thing about Norris was that early in his career he showed tremendous boxing skills but the KO came often and well that he became a puncher. But I think he had the skills to outbox anyone if he needed to.
Love his fight vs. Meldrick pretty eben fight both guys moving well and just wating for the other to make a mistake and capatalize Norris check mates and takes out Meldrick. The Simon fight was an damn! exciting and well forgotten fight that changed winner at least one time per round. Norris had Simon, I mean done. But Norris just couldn't finish Simon, I think Norris let off a little would Norris have pressed on more he would have finished Simon but he gave Simon the time and room to get himself together. Big mistake Simon takes his ass out in fashion. His last fights are hard to see also like most fights that come at the end of career where you know the fighter would have blasted them out would he be in his prime.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jimafee

Michael Nunn

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Talk about rising to fame and thinking your unstopable and your king of the world and then just like that your ass loses.
I mean he started his career beating a fighter like Ramos, Knoxx by the time he beat Tate his attitude had already changed he then sparks out Sumbu early I think the 2rd round and shit! Nunn was on cloud 9... Brings his ass to Los Angeles and changed his life style big house, nice cars and all that.... Struggles with Barkley in that fight I had him wining by 2 points. So now that he was Mr. Hollywood he fights Toney and get's KTFO! twice. Have you ever seen someone get KTFO! twice in 1 fight?
I still don't know how in the hell Nunn got up from that fuken hook that almost took his head off. If memory serves me right as the ref. counts to 8 and is about to say 9 Nunn jumps off his ass and stands up :o I have no idea how he lost to Liles & Steve :(
IMO, Nunn had the potential to do so much more then what he accomplished.....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jimafee

Tim Littles & Frankie Liles

---

The only thing I wanna say about these two is there 2nd fight is one of the most entertaining fights you can see it had it all wresteling, biting, throwing, kicking and a devastating KO. ;)
These two had some good ones but IMO they fall short compared to the rest as far as career & accomplishments. Especially Littles

Took me a while to put this together so you better read it. ;D

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I was waiting for you to respond. CC mr.Boxing encyclopedia.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jimafee

Mick, wow, thank you very much! That was exactly what i was after! I owe you a bout 5 CC's for that!!! ;)

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Not a problem man, thanks and so as long as something stuck it's all good. :)

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Originally Posted by Jimafee

Its wierd, James Toney is one of my all time favorite fighters so you'd guess id know more about his opponents and etc.

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'Lights Out' talk about a fighter who had it all. IMO he's P4P one of the best fighters of the last 15 years.
What you see PBF do today the shoulder roll and all that was done by PBF long before PBF was doing it. A little different in the sense that Toney also used it as an offensive weapon cause he would normally come off the shoulder roll with hooks and or uppercuts.
In 91 when he beat Nunn he single handedly beat 3 of the top 10 Middles of that time. Nunn who was #1, McCallum was #4, Reggie was #9.
I can honestly say that it sucks that Toney like most fighters has let his late career somewhat overshadow the early part of his career BUT hard core fans know the type of skills this kat displayed early in his career.
If you see his 1st title fight and I don't mean the Nunn fight I'm talking about the Moorefield fight you'll see he ment business. In his post fight inetrview he says hes ready he's trained for the best and he's gonna make his move into the World stage.
Toney wasn't lying when he said that.
You gotta love the way he sparks out Littles and due to the circumstances it's a helluva win IMO.
Toney was a warrior early in his career and the Charles fight showed that he was something special.
To this day I don't get it why he would loose to Griffin, a fighter who was worlds apart from him I know people will mention the weight and all but still it just doesn't click.
The Jirov fight was IMO his last hurrah! it was an epic battle and one for the ages along with the other I mentioned.
His quality of opposition is IMO one of the best around only Oscar and maybe 2 more other current fighters can come close to it.
I heard he was having financial problems and I guess that's why he continues to fight but IMO and for his own good he needs to retire.
Just retire and wait for your letter from Canastota in 5 yrs. :)

*click* #2 :)

*** Edit ***

Gotdam karma, i should had my clicks out earlier in the day ::**

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Originally Posted by El Gamo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jimafee

Mike McCullum

---

A superb amateur turned pro in the ams he beat fighters like Starling, DeWitt, Simms. Lost to Ramos.
Nicknamed 'The Bodysnatcher' for his superb body attack and what an all around fighter he was. Highly avoided in his prime by the best, IMO argueably the greatest Light Middle of all time. My favorite Mike fight has to be vs. Watson and his destruction of The Hawk was incredible.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jimafee

Sumbu Kalambay

---

One of Italys greatest (African born) he's a nationalized Italian. Up there with Sandro as the greatest Italians to lace up the gloves.
Was on a great roll but that KO loss to Nunn was devastating, after that he then went on to loose to McCallum and he also got 1 over Collins early in Collins career now that I think about it so did McCallum. Think Sumbu also got win number 2 over Graham in the rematch years later after the looses to Nunn & Mike.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jimafee

Julian Jackson

---

P4P one of the hardest punchers of all time, one punch KO artist. The Hawk was a bad muthafucka! man....
His career set of 61 fights for the most part it must all fit in about 3 discs since most fights ended by KO including the ones he lost.
His coming out party vs. Chul Baek was beautiful....
The way he chops down Drayton was fucken crazy....
His 2nd round destruction of Norris was a thing of beauty and truely shows the kind of raw power he had...
Do I really need to comment on his KO over Graham, I mean really?
I really gotta admit the KO loses he suffered to the G-Man were fucken devastating to him.
When he fought Taylor I had Jackson up by 1 point and then BAM! good night Jackson.
Watching him loose to Vince sucked, he was doing OK but it was obvious he was in over his head.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jimafee

Terry Norris

---

'Terrible' Terry... Yet another bad muthafucka! This dude stepped in the ring and just like Jackson you knew he meant business when he was in there.
Argueably the greatest Light Middle ever (he and Mike could have an arguement) anothe hard puncher....
Sucks that he had some mentaility issues there and the mind played tricks on him, I think hes those type of fighters who just couldn't control himself once he went off. I mean really who looses 2 fights back to back by DQ?
Golota :-X Get the picture?
The thing about Norris was that early in his career he showed tremendous boxing skills but the KO came often and well that he became a puncher. But I think he had the skills to outbox anyone if he needed to.
Love his fight vs. Meldrick pretty eben fight both guys moving well and just wating for the other to make a mistake and capatalize Norris check mates and takes out Meldrick. The Simon fight was an damn! exciting and well forgotten fight that changed winner at least one time per round. Norris had Simon, I mean done. But Norris just couldn't finish Simon, I think Norris let off a little would Norris have pressed on more he would have finished Simon but he gave Simon the time and room to get himself together. Big mistake Simon takes his ass out in fashion. His last fights are hard to see also like most fights that come at the end of career where you know the fighter would have blasted them out would he be in his prime.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jimafee

Michael Nunn

---

Talk about rising to fame and thinking your unstopable and your king of the world and then just like that your ass loses.
I mean he started his career beating a fighter like Ramos, Knoxx by the time he beat Tate his attitude had already changed he then sparks out Sumbu early I think the 2rd round and shit! Nunn was on cloud 9... Brings his ass to Los Angeles and changed his life style big house, nice cars and all that.... Struggles with Barkley in that fight I had him wining by 2 points. So now that he was Mr. Hollywood he fights Toney and get's KTFO! twice. Have you ever seen someone get KTFO! twice in 1 fight?
I still don't know how in the hell Nunn got up from that fuken hook that almost took his head off. If memory serves me right as the ref. counts to 8 and is about to say 9 Nunn jumps off his ass and stands up :o I have no idea how he lost to Liles & Steve :(
IMO, Nunn had the potential to do so much more then what he accomplished.....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jimafee

Tim Littles & Frankie Liles

---

The only thing I wanna say about these two is there 2nd fight is one of the most entertaining fights you can see it had it all wresteling, biting, throwing, kicking and a devastating KO. ;)
These two had some good ones but IMO they fall short compared to the rest as far as career & accomplishments. Especially Littles

Took me a while to put this together so you better read it. ;D

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I was waiting for you to respond. CC mr.Boxing encyclopedia.

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;D
Thanks....

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Originally Posted by Jimafee

*click* #2 :)

*** Edit ***

Gotdam karma, i should had my clicks out earlier in the day ::**

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No worries, I don't do it for the cc's.....
I just enjoy a good chat and like to learn new stuff myself... :)