Curious...How does everyone here think the P4P rankings work?

Just wondering on how people here think the P4P rankings work?...Or how they make their list......It seems that when reading the post of some people here they think just because a fighter beats another fighter or any fighter on the P4P list that they should either replace them or be put on the list...Some feel even higher......

Before I explain how I do mine or how it is actually complied by the experts (No BOXREC DOES NOT COUNT THEY ARE IDIOTS)....I think thereb is a lot pf confusion on how this works

This will be one messy thread :D

You need wins over some top P4P fighters to be in the top 10 IMO. Calzaghe (as much as I'm a fan of him) has only beaten one top 10 P4P fighter so why is he up there?

That's kind of my take on it. But people will do it in so many different ways.

P4P rankings are compiled on level of opposition(relative to the compiler) ,records ... and also as stated above will pretty much always need a win over a current P4P fighter. This is paramount. Joe had trouble making many lists prior to this but was on many due to his record and longevity as champ.

Honestly,I try to avoid them.So much subjectiveness and broad interpretation.The point about beating one fighter amongst the top ten and consequently being put into the p4p is spot on.I just can not buy that as a sole reason to make the rankings.I think it has to be a current evaluation on recent showings....fight by fight taking into consideration Caliber of competition,performance,and ....this is where it gets sujective....a broad assessment of skillset and how they compare.I'm already dizzy.

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Originally Posted by PRIDE OF BOSTON

P4P rankings are compiled on level of opposition(relative to the compiler) ,records ... and also as stated above will pretty much always need a win over a current P4P fighter. This is paramount. Joe had trouble making many lists prior to this but was on many due to his record and longevity as champ.

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That's what I don't agree with, an undefeated record means fuck all unless you have top guys on your resume, imagine if Valuev was made top ten because of his record (before he got beat that is) that would be nuts.

All the best fighters have losses because they fought the best there was. Marciano may be an exeption though.

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Originally Posted by Kel

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Originally Posted by PRIDE OF BOSTON

P4P rankings are compiled on level of opposition(relative to the compiler) ,records ... and also as stated above will pretty much always need a win over a current P4P fighter. This is paramount. Joe had trouble making many lists prior to this but was on many due to his record and longevity as champ.

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That's what I don't agree with, an undefeated record means fuck all unless you have top guys on your resume, imagine if Valuev was made top ten because of his record (before he got beat that is) that would be nuts.

All the best fighters have losses because they fought the best there was. Marciano may be an exeption though.

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That's exactly what I was attempting to say... It does mean fuck all but if you're gonna let Marciano(one of my all time favorite fighters...) go you have to let a slew of others go...

So had Calzaghe not beat Hopkins and that fight never tool place... and his record was still intact... would he have been on you P4P list?

Like Marciano fought aging champs and aging challengers and a lot of tomato cans... (course Louis had his "bum of the month club as well) But he is still seen as one of the best not even taking into account his retiring undefeated when some say he was in his prime...

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Originally Posted by PRIDE OF BOSTON

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Originally Posted by Kel

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Originally Posted by PRIDE OF BOSTON

P4P rankings are compiled on level of opposition(relative to the compiler) ,records ... and also as stated above will pretty much always need a win over a current P4P fighter. This is paramount. Joe had trouble making many lists prior to this but was on many due to his record and longevity as champ.

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That's what I don't agree with, an undefeated record means fuck all unless you have top guys on your resume, imagine if Valuev was made top ten because of his record (before he got beat that is) that would be nuts.

All the best fighters have losses because they fought the best there was. Marciano may be an exeption though.

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That's exactly what I was attempting to say... It does mean fuck all but if you're gonna let Marciano(one of my all time favorite fighters...) go you have to let a slew of others go...

So had Calzaghe not beat Hopkins and that fight never tool place... and his record was still intact... would he have been on you P4P list?

Like Marciano fought aging champs and aging challengers and a lot of tomato cans... (course Louis had his "bum of the month club as well) But he is still seen as one of the best not even taking into account his retiring undefeated when some say he was in his prime...

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Without the Hopkins win I'd say no, Lacy and Kessler puts him easily in the top 20 maybe, but guys at smaller weights especially have fought better opposition more often than Joe. I dunno, P4P ratings really do fuck my head in.

I think I stated it wrong....I was trying to ask more or less...How do you determine a P4P list....

I see a lot of guys who believe that because one fighter beats a fighter on the P4P list they automatically belong on the list.....It is not so...They also seem to think because one fighter ranked 10 on the P4P list lets say beats another in same weight class who happens to be on the list but ranked 4...that they get the #4 spot....

Just wondering how they justify this

Sorry for the confusion on the original post

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Originally Posted by Kel

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Originally Posted by PRIDE OF BOSTON

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Originally Posted by Kel

That's what I don't agree with, an undefeated record means fuck all unless you have top guys on your resume, imagine if Valuev was made top ten because of his record (before he got beat that is) that would be nuts.

All the best fighters have losses because they fought the best there was. Marciano may be an exeption though.

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That's exactly what I was attempting to say... It does mean fuck all but if you're gonna let Marciano(one of my all time favorite fighters...) go you have to let a slew of others go...

So had Calzaghe not beat Hopkins and that fight never tool place... and his record was still intact... would he have been on you P4P list?

Like Marciano fought aging champs and aging challengers and a lot of tomato cans... (course Louis had his "bum of the month club as well) But he is still seen as one of the best not even taking into account his retiring undefeated when some say he was in his prime...

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Without the Hopkins win I'd say no, Lacy and Kessler puts him easily in the top 20 maybe, but guys at smaller weights especially have fought better opposition more often than Joe. I dunno, P4P ratings really do fuck my head in.

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No, no... I entirely agree with you. I remember having this discussion prior to the Hopkins fight on one of the 2 trillion P4P threads we normally have... Some had him at like 8 or nine... I had him at like 14 or so. I distinctly remember it. My point was that many had Calzaghe there for his longevity alone prior to beating a P4P fighter which I did not agree with.

We're on the same page, bro;)

It's really very difficult due to the subjectiveness introduced in the rankings. Though I only consider one position from most P4P list, that of the no. 1 P4P position since it's easier to justify... A boxer reaching the no. 1 P4P ranking usually deserved the title...
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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

I think I stated it wrong....I was trying to ask more or less...How do you determine a P4P list....

I see a lot of guys who believe that because one fighter beats a fighter on the P4P list they automatically belong on the list.....It is not so...They also seem to think because one fighter ranked 10 on the P4P list lets say beats another in same weight class who happens to be on the list but ranked 4...that they get the #4 spot....

Just wondering how they justify this

Sorry for the confusion on the original post

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You know, I'll be honest... I don't know. I think it's normally fairly easy with the top three but after that it's hairy as hell...

I'd like to see what's said here though cuz I seriously don't know beyond what I've said.

Good Thread!

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

I think I stated it wrong....I was trying to ask more or less...How do you determine a P4P list....

I see a lot of guys who believe that because one fighter beats a fighter on the P4P list they automatically belong on the list.....It is not so...They also seem to think because one fighter ranked 10 on the P4P list lets say beats another in same weight class who happens to be on the list but ranked 4...that they get the #4 spot....

Just wondering how they justify this

Sorry for the confusion on the original post

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Good stuff Daxx.There was a thread weeks ago about the upcoming Calzaghe/Jones face off.If Jones beats Calzaghe,what ever the circumstances....Should he make the P4P top ten.I don't think so.There is no reason to believe Jones Jr,an undeniable greatly skilled fighter and legit p4p ruler in his prime,is the p4p fighter he once was.Say,he.....or any other fighter, go's out and lands a brick on a p4p fighter and takes a win.Imo,that does not necessarily equate to current p4p skills and ranking.

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Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'Nawlins

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

I think I stated it wrong....I was trying to ask more or less...How do you determine a P4P list....

I see a lot of guys who believe that because one fighter beats a fighter on the P4P list they automatically belong on the list.....It is not so...They also seem to think because one fighter ranked 10 on the P4P list lets say beats another in same weight class who happens to be on the list but ranked 4...that they get the #4 spot....

Just wondering how they justify this

Sorry for the confusion on the original post

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Good stuff Daxx.There was a thread weeks ago about the upcoming Calzaghe/Jones face off.If Jones beats Calzaghe,what ever the circumstances....Should he make the P4P top ten.I don't think so.There is no reason to believe Jones Jr,an undeniable greatly skilled fighter and legit p4p ruler in his prime,is the p4p fighter he once was.Say,he.....or any other fighter, go's out and lands a brick on a p4p fighter and takes a win.Imo,that does not necessarily equate to current p4p skills and ranking.

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See now that's where I have to disagree... Jones is clearly past it but should Jones eak this out and fights at a level I don't think he's capable of fighting at and OUT BOXES a P4P#4 sure I think he belongs somewhere on the list... Absolutely!

Personally I think that you have to include 3 things

1. Quality of opp of course...Most important...any fighter worth a half tablespoon of salt can beat guys 10-9 or 22-11 and make a career out of it....You have to beat top contenders as a champion and you have to beat the best available in or around your divisions

2. Longevity....You must have quality wins over a long period of time...A fighter with 2 or 3 wins over top guys in a 2 or so yr time period does not really get the nod for me...we have all seen guys peak and fizzle like the weather changes...You have to be able to prove over a period that you can continue to compete and win at the top level...This is why I hold Bernard Hopkins in such high regard....Sure he has lost some over his past few but fact is he is a top caliber figher who has been a champion almost constantly with the exception of his time between the 2nd Taylor fight and Tarver bout

3. How dominate are the wins.....Guys who squeek out wins by SD or win by KO after the opponent kicked their ass until they faded from stamina issues are not dominate fighters...They are picking the right opp at the right time....EG-- John Ruiz may have been a multi time champion but he won his belts from a faded Holyfield who would have disposed of him easily years before.....Yet Chris Byrd who was no KO puncher by far outboxed his opp convincingly...Making him the more dominate force

This is the way I was taught to decide on how a fighter should be considered in a P4P setting by Bert Sugar and Angelo Dundee...and it is the recipe I continue to keep........Just not sure how some guys justify things like Calzaghe for example being so high after beating Jeff Lacy when Jeff had failed to beat a top quality fighter in their primes...But his win over Jeff no matter how dominate was supposed to make up for all the soft opp.....

For me it comes down to a few things:

quality of opposition
their last performance(s)
talent & ability