Who suffered worse in their defeat, Cotto or Pavlik?

Personally, I don't see it as close: Cotto. However, this article, Who Suffered The More Damaging Defeat, Cotto Or Pavlik?, thinks the defeats are comparable. Pavlik didn't look like damaged goods after 48 minutes of Bhop domination whereas Cotto looked like a train had hit him. Hopkins taught Pavlik a course on the sweet science, but Margarito thoroughly mauled Cotto. Pavlik never hit the canvas during his defeat, Cotto took two or three knees. Cotto couldn't finish the fight, Pavlik easily finished. Am I wrong?

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Personally, I don't see it as close: Cotto. However, this article, Who Suffered The More Damaging Defeat, Cotto Or Pavlik?, thinks the defeats are comparable. Pavlik didn't look like damaged goods after 48 minutes of Bhop domination whereas Cotto looked like a train had hit him. Hopkins taught Pavlik a course on the sweet science, but Margarito thoroughly mauled Cotto. Pavlik never hit the canvas during his defeat, Cotto took two or three knees. Cotto couldn't finish the fight, Pavlik easily finished. Am I wrong?

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Kelly Pavlik for certain the fight has basically ended his chances, against any sort of fight with Joe Calzaghe. He also lost every round to a 43 year old in which many people thought Kelly Pavlik would win. He also looked flat as a pancake.

Miguel Cotto vs Antonio Margarito was seen as a very close fight, Miguel Cotto fought a very good fight he tried his hardest. But Antonio Margarito had too good of a chin and his workrate was too much, i don't see how Miguel Cotto losing to Antonio Margarito is worse than Kelly Pavlik losing to Bernard Hopkins.

Miguel Cotto will atleast get a chance to revenge his loss, and his reputation hasn't suffered that much at all. Where as Kelly Pavlik is already getting called overrated and he will never have a chance at a rematch.

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Personally, I don't see it as close: Cotto. However, this article, Who Suffered The More Damaging Defeat, Cotto Or Pavlik?, thinks the defeats are comparable. Pavlik didn't look like damaged goods after 48 minutes of Bhop domination whereas Cotto looked like a train had hit him. Hopkins taught Pavlik a course on the sweet science, but Margarito thoroughly mauled Cotto. Pavlik never hit the canvas during his defeat, Cotto took two or three knees. Cotto couldn't finish the fight, Pavlik easily finished. Am I wrong?

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I think the more damaging defeat was that to Pavlik, he was had zero success from opening bell until the scores were read. Cotto started out well so he at least had that, of course it it frustrating when you're doing everything right sitting down on your punches and nothing seems to have the devastating effect.

I guess I was wrong!

Even though Cotto looked like someone ran sandpaper on his face and Pavlik looked relatively normal? Physically, obviously Cotto suffered more. Is it the opinion that Pavlik suffered more mentally than Cotto?

Pavlik was beat at lhw, but normally fights at middleweight. Cotto was beat at his natural weight, welterweight. Pavlik has retained his middleweight belts, Cotto lost his welterweight belts.

True, his reputation suffered. Pavlik won't get a fight with Calzaghe, but that was never guaranteed anyway. He also won't get a rematch with Bernard, but after the schooling he took, why would he want one?

its pretty close to me i think kellys was probably a little more worse, but cotto had a terrible defeat and it was by TKO i give pavlik credit for not hitting the canvas or giving up and taking a beatin like a man. but cotto did take those knees which looks real bad especially if your the favorite. they both took ass whoopins but i say cottos was a worse beatin and pavliks was a worse defeat.

IMO Pavlik; and since Killer and ICB already gave the reasons I won't bore anyone with much more.

Pavlik got shown for what he is, hard as it is to say for me, a fairly one dimensional fighter who had a major case of DITH that night against Hopkins, and was embarassed. Great at what he does and a ferocious finisher; but lacking in mobility and an inherent ability to change a gameplan.

Cotto jut got outbullied by a guy who happens to have iron in his DNA. He showed imo a great ability to box but just got caught one too many times and eventually wore out.

If Pavlik had that same kind of ability to walk through punches like Cotto his fight with Hopkins could have been very similar to the Cotto/Margarito fight. Maybe I'm delusional as I just woke up and my mind is scrambled right now:bucktooth: :woot22:

Mentally-Pavlik
Physically and Mentally-Cotto

So, it's Cotto who suffered more...;)

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Originally Posted by LEGION

IMO Pavlik; and since Killer and ICB already gave the reasons I won't bore anyone with much more.

Pavlik got shown for what he is, hard as it is to say for me, a fairly one dimensional fighter who had a major case of DITH that night against Hopkins, and was embarassed. Great at what he does and a ferocious finisher; but lacking in mobility and an inherent ability to change a gameplan.

Cotto jut got outbullied by a guy who happens to have iron in his DNA. He showed imo a great ability to box but just got caught one too many times and eventually wore out.

If Pavlik had that same kind of ability to walk through punches like Cotto his fight with Hopkins could have been very similar to the Cotto/Margarito fight. Maybe I'm delusional as I just woke up and my mind is scrambled right now:bucktooth: :woot22:

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Bottom line, from what I gather, Pavlik suffered more because the blueprint was laid out on how to beat him?

I am assuming that people think Cotto is more likely to bounce back from his defeat than Pavlik is his?

I disagree. Cotto significantly dropped in his welterweight ranking. Pwill and Margarito are obviously yards ahead of him. As long as they stay at that weight, Cotto will never be on top of his game. Pavlik still stands strong at middleweight. Other than AA, who can beat him?

Pavlik had the more humiliating and mentally damaging defeat. He was made to look like an amateur, but it wasn't a terrible physcal beating.

Cotto took the worse physical beating. Cotto showed that he was the more skilled boxer and won many rounds, but he physical abuse took it's toll on him. It was a little similar to Chavez/Taylor.

We wont know the answer until they comeback.

I would bet Pavlik's loss - for the reasons already given - was far more damaging.

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Personally, I don't see it as close: Cotto. However, this article, Who Suffered The More Damaging Defeat, Cotto Or Pavlik?, thinks the defeats are comparable. Pavlik didn't look like damaged goods after 48 minutes of Bhop domination whereas Cotto looked like a train had hit him. Hopkins taught Pavlik a course on the sweet science, but Margarito thoroughly mauled Cotto. Pavlik never hit the canvas during his defeat, Cotto took two or three knees. Cotto couldn't finish the fight, Pavlik easily finished. Am I wrong?

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Pavlik was embaressed and everything he tried he could not get off...something like that can destroy the mentalityt of a fighter worse then a KO loss....It can make you feel like you are not worthy being at that level....You become worried in your next fight with someone of high caliber that you may be humuliated in public again...Embaressment can do crazy things to you......

Cotto was out muscled and he found out that he can not break every fighter down....it can also be very mind damaging but it as long as the fighter does not become punch shy they are usually able to recover

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Personally, I don't see it as close: Cotto. However, this article, Who Suffered The More Damaging Defeat, Cotto Or Pavlik?, thinks the defeats are comparable. Pavlik didn't look like damaged goods after 48 minutes of Bhop domination whereas Cotto looked like a train had hit him. Hopkins taught Pavlik a course on the sweet science, but Margarito thoroughly mauled Cotto. Pavlik never hit the canvas during his defeat, Cotto took two or three knees. Cotto couldn't finish the fight, Pavlik easily finished. Am I wrong?

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Pavlik was embaressed and everything he tried he could not get off...something like that can destroy the mentalityt of a fighter worse then a KO loss....It can make you feel like you are not worthy being at that level....You become worried in your next fight with someone of high caliber that you may be humuliated in public again...Embaressment can do crazy things to you......

Cotto was out muscled and he found out that he can not break every fighter down....it can also be very mind damaging but it as long as the fighter does not become punch shy they are usually able to recover much easier

I'd say Cotto suffered worse than Pavlik. Pavlik moved up in weight to fight a legend and Cotto lost his championship to Margarito. Right?

It depends on how each fighter handles it.

Cotto had a lot of success in his fight, but still got beaten after seemingly having the fight his way at the beginning. He did have success in that fight and has something to build on for the future and can probably see the corrections he has to make.

Pavlik had no success and was never in his fight. If he chalks it to just a terrible night, he could rebound fine. If he concentrates on how badly he was beaten, and tries to find out what he did wrong, he will never find an answer for it.

Both of them have a huge task ahead of them. Both of them have a huge amount of pride. They both had incredible confidence that got shattered. Cotto will always question his own durability and Pavlik will always question his skill level.

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Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Personally, I don't see it as close: Cotto. However, this article, Who Suffered The More Damaging Defeat, Cotto Or Pavlik?, thinks the defeats are comparable. Pavlik didn't look like damaged goods after 48 minutes of Bhop domination whereas Cotto looked like a train had hit him. Hopkins taught Pavlik a course on the sweet science, but Margarito thoroughly mauled Cotto. Pavlik never hit the canvas during his defeat, Cotto took two or three knees. Cotto couldn't finish the fight, Pavlik easily finished. Am I wrong?

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Cotto's beating was worse no doubt but Pavlik never landed a glove on B-Hop at least not until the 11th round.

Cotto/Margarito was very competive and it turned back and forth.

Pavlik/Bhop was a one sided clinic but B-Hop did not put half the pressure that Margarito put on Cotto.

Cotto/Margarito were two prime lions.

Pavlik was a prime fighter getting beat by an old man (A great old man though)


Cotto has nothing to be ashamed.

Pavlik would have got knocked out had B-hop been a more pressure type fighter.

Whe don't know what is going to happen but, we know Cotto can box.
Pavlik looked terrible, he got owned and lost every round.

Now, I believe that a young defensive fighter such as AA can take Pavlik.

Not sure how many other fighters can take Cotto other than Margarito and Williams.

I once thought Cotto could take them both ;D

I would like to see Cotto/Cintron

I would like to see Williams/Margarito II

Cotto/Margarito II

Cotto/Williams.

Pavlik/Arthur Abraham.

Still, these are good entertaining fighters. I don't believe either fighter is done, they have plenty to offer and both are still very young and will be dominating forces or and if not great opposition in the future.


I am not giving up on either fighter.

I do feel bad for Kelly Pavlik because he was never able to hit b-hop and that has to be very frustrating, on the other hand, Cotto was able to hit Margarito plenty and not stop him and that also has to be very frustrating.

Styles make fights.

Hagler knocks out Hearns :o

Hearns knocks out Duran :o

Duran goes 15 rounds with Hagler :o

Duran beats Ray Leonard

Leonard beats Hearns

and so on and so on.

In closing, both Cotto and Pavlik will be back. ;)