Both fighters have critics based on who they did not fight but who should regret their legacy the most. I have carefully worded the question. Remember Jones was the more talented fighter.
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Both fighters have critics based on who they did not fight but who should regret their legacy the most. I have carefully worded the question. Remember Jones was the more talented fighter.
Not sure who Galzaghe is to be fair mate lol
IMO it's Calzaghe he had plenty of opportunities to move up in weight like Hopkins had plenty of opportunities to do so. You look at RJJ and sure there are some guys he should have and could have fought but RJJ still accomplished alot he won titles from middleweight to heavyweight (skipping over cruiserweight where IMO he would have been VERY successful). Joe like Hopkins stayed in one weight class for the majority of his career....and he RARELY left England to fight which further hurts him because not everyone wants to go to England to fight.
RJJ has faaaaaar better talent on his record than does Calzaghe
From a legacy point of view it's Calzaghe who definitely has more to prove, at least in the eyes of American's
Jones Jr has already proven himself over and over, in his prime he was nigh on unbeatable.
Joe has had an outstanding career but only in the last couple years is he finally fighting the big names.
If he were to lose this certainly there will hundreds of haters on here who will post 'I FUCKING TOLD YOU SO!!!!! and FINALLY I'M VINDICATED!!!!' type crap.
Whilst the boxing world at large will still respect Joe's acomplishments he really needs this win to put himself amongst the greats.
And I really think with a win here he will be close to achieving that.
Whilst I don't think Jones is the fighter he was he's no less the fighter than Mike Tyson was when Lennox Lewis got to him, or maybe even Barrera when Juan Manuel Marquez got to him.
It's still a huge name on Joe's resume no matter what the haters, naysayers and negativity spinners will say.
If he wins he will have beaten hands down the two most outstanding American fighters of this generation in these weight classes.
He needs this win, he really needs this win.
i say calzaghe. roy has done more with his career to be honest he moved up in weight fought the best in each class except for HW but who cares he still won a strap and thats pretty impressive for a guy that started his career in JMW. but calzaghe stayed and dominated in one division basically his whole career. so it will be like this Calzaghe will be remembered KINDA like hagler is which is a great fighter who just dominated some good up and comers and stayed undefeated. but roy will be rememberd like himself he was the p4p best for a while moved up in weight to fight better competition and was the most exciting fighter to watch for this generation.
Having Jones on his resume is about like him having Eubank on his record.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
That being said Joe does NEED to win because if he does lose espicially to this version of Roy Jones Jr. he will be cast aside as nothing but hype and a beater of bums, a step above Svenn Ottke!
Joe's legacy won't truly be written until guys like Lacy and Kessler get further in their careers.
I would still like to see Jermain Taylor vs Joe Calzaghe...I always thought JT would have a better shot at Calzaghe than Pavlik especially after the Kessler fight
Having Jones on his name will be HUGE. Even if people say he is done it's still the biggest name.Quote:
Originally Posted by LyleHaving Jones on his resume is about like him having Eubank on his record.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
That being said Joe does NEED to win because if he does lose espicially to this version of Roy Jones Jr. he will be cast aside as nothing but hype and a beater of bums, a step above Svenn Ottke!
Joe's legacy won't truly be written until guys like Lacy and Kessler get further in their careers.
I would still like to see Jermain Taylor vs Joe Calzaghe...I always thought JT would have a better shot at Calzaghe than Pavlik especially after the Kessler fight
Just consider this.
Who is the biggest name on Leon Spinks record?
How about Trevor Berbick?
Danny Williams?
Kevin McBride?
James Buster Douglas?
These fighters fought Ali and Tyson well past their past (except Douglas) yet it's still what they are famous for.
Glen Johnson and Tarver both crept into the Ring top 10 p4p's when they beat Jones.
People hate Tarver because he's famous only for beating Jones but that's because it's a HUGE win, no matter what the circumstances.
A win over Jones, no matter what his current ability is WAY above a win over Eubank on the world stage.
Calzaghe will always be remembered for beating Hopkins and Jones above any other fighters if he pulls it off.
Oh of course but people who actually know boxing and put these wins in perspective know the truth. The truth is if Calzaghe wins, he beat an aged once great fighter and if he loses then we all knew he would.
It's a must win situation for Calzaghe, I agree but it's because if he loses then he really damages his legacy.
But if he wins it's a much bigger win then Eubank. It will be his defining fight along with Hopkins.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Look at Steve Collins. He beat Benn and Eubank twice each at the end of their careers and in so doing carved out a name for himself.
He's only known really in relation to those wins, they made him who he was. the fact that they were both past their best is irelevent really.
When there are no other superstar rivals in their prime in your weight class then you need to make your legacy by beating former greats.
Marquez got Barrera, Lewis got Tyson and Holyfield.
That's why both Vitali and Wlad need Lennox Lewis, there is nobody for them to beat so even though Lewis is totally past it and been out of the sport for almost 5 years there is still always talk of him coming back.
Calzaghe needs Roy Jones on his resume.
If he gets it he will be the only man in the world to have wins over B Hop and Roy Jones, no matter how shot they are (and neither are that shot imo) it's a massive legacy to have.
Jones has a better resume than Calzaghe, reguardless of the outcome imo. Yes Calzaghe beat ATG Hopkins, but lets be honest nobody walked away thinking Joe is the better fighter, he just threw more punches that night and edged him. Yes he beat Lacy, but Lacy is a B+/A- fighter at best. He beat an old Eubank which was still a good win but not career defining. His biggest career win was over Kessler imo because he proved to be the superior fighter agaist another prime legitimate champion.
Jones beat a lot of solid fighters in their primes and aside from Michalczewski he fought the best available at the time including Toney and Hopkins. In his prime he rarely lost a round to top contenders. His wins over Ruiz, Tarver, and Trinidad dont hurt his legacy either reguardless of the circumstances.
Nobody would fight Jones a reasonable amount of money, people don't acknowledge that, but other fighters were scared shitless of Roy, Joe Calzaghe included.
For me its calzaghe.
I dont think its his fault though.
Its down to frank warren.
Calzaghe shouldve gone to the states and started battering the sh1t out of all the other opponents that roy jones faced and then making himself more well known out there, forcing the bigger fights earlier on.
Its such a shame that never happened.
If calzaghe wins against jones in their coming fight then he goes down as one of the greats.
Its a shame though that with a record of 48,0,0 (if he wins) we will never really have seen what he couldve been had he gone to the states earlier.
I blame this on his manager, had it not been for him then perhaps the great matchups wouldve happened when calzaghe/jones/hopkins were all younger.
The sad fact is that calzaghe will always have the question mark over his head as to how great a fighter he was, was he simply only as good as he is now (a legend, but not a top 10 ever) or...was he one of the best fighters ever, easily surpassing roy jones...who knows? We will never know now, all because his manager didnt bring him stateside and kept him in the uk.
A shame.
Either way, with wins over eubank, kessler, lacy, reid and hopkins, then a win (if he does) over roy jones (not at his peak) then it just goes to prove what ive said...
We can look back and say, 'was calzaghe simply a legend', or 'could calzaghe have been the best in this era of boxing'...we'll never know, such a shame imo.
I'm going to say Jones, for this reason....
Jones is one of the most talented fighters ever. If he had gone all out and fought all comers, he could have potentially gone down as one of the 5 or 6 greatest fighters ever. He could have been a legend in the mold of Robinson, Leonard or Duran.
But thats exactly the same as what can be said about joe though is it not?Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
If calzaghe had actually fought the fighters stateside when he was younger then the same could be said about him (presuming he won of course).
The bottom line is, what seperates the very best of the best from the rest is that they actually went and fought each other.
When you look at the classic golden era of the heavyweights, ali, frazier, foreman spring to mind...they fought each other all in the same era...sometimes they won, sometimes they lost, but they werent trying to pamper their records by avoiding each other, they would want to battle it out and fight each other for a victory. The same goes with sugar ray robinson, the same as you rightly said goes with hearn, hagler, duran and leonard.
They were there to be fought, and they did fight!
Unfortunately jones' career wasnt like that. Neither was calzaghe's. In terms of a legacy point of view calzaghe is doing it too late.
Who knows who would have won if it had been 7-8 years ago, but its such a shame that roy jones and joe calzaghe never met each other previously.
No, I don't think the same can be said about Joe. Joe is very good, but he never had the potential to be good as Roy did.Quote:
Originally Posted by LondonBBBut thats exactly the same as what can be said about joe though is it not?Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
If calzaghe had actually fought the fighters stateside when he was younger then the same could be said about him (presuming he won of course).
The bottom line is, what seperates the very best of the best from the rest is that they actually went and fought each other.
When you look at the classic golden era of the heavyweights, ali, frazier, foreman spring to mind...they fought each other all in the same era...sometimes they won, sometimes they lost, but they werent trying to pamper their records by avoiding each other, they would want to battle it out and fight each other for a victory. The same goes with sugar ray robinson, the same as you rightly said goes with hearn, hagler, duran and leonard.
They were there to be fought, and they did fight!
Unfortunately jones' career wasnt like that. Neither was calzaghe's. In terms of a legacy point of view calzaghe is doing it too late.
Who knows who would have won if it had been 7-8 years ago, but its such a shame that roy jones and joe calzaghe never met each other previously.