Has anyone heard this before??

I'm studying psychology and therapy stuff at the moment, and am currently on a section on thoughts and eye movement etc, and how different thoughts and moods can make your pupils get bigger and smaller..


ANYWAY

It said that one of Ali's secrets was that he would watch an opponents eyes, and could see their pupils constrict right before they would throw a power punch..
Like, being a professional boxer, everything become pretty automatic, but even so, the brain has to think of an action before sending the message to the muscles to act. Even if it's only a split second.. So as soon as Ali's opponent would have it in their head to launch an attack with some intent, their pupils would tell the story right before, and he was able to react that split second quicker than looking for the action in the muscles....

I though it was very interesting.. I havn't had a chance to try this out, and it might be a little difficult to just pick up at first,,, but it might be something worth concentrating a little to see if there is anything there... Things like this may even be a part of a lot of good defensive fighters instincts, without them even realising it. Like you need to build up the instinct of just being able to react to the subtle things in an opponent that let you know what he's about to..

I'm not sure it's possible to actually see pupils contract during a fight, but certainly, the eyes play a great part

Interesting, never thought of that.

I'm no expert, but I'd guess that just about everybody gives off unconcious signals of one kind or another. It wouldn't surprise me that a guy like Ali, if he is very adept at recognizing patterns quickly, would be able to detect some kind of a signal or body language that would give him an idea what was coming. Especially if he hought the guy a few times, e.g. Frazier, Norton etc.

You'd have to be damn good at reading the signals, but sure I think it could happen.

I know my main sparring partner raises his eyebrows when he is about to do something, everyone has a rhymth and a tell which gives it away. The best just seem to have very small tells and constantly change their rhythm. Look at past fights and you will start to pick out this, I was watching an am fight and you could almost predict exactly when the guy was about to throw. If I can find it on youtube again i'll try post it here.

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

I'm not sure it's possible to actually see pupils contract during a fight, but certainly, the eyes play a great part

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I have since tested the theory out with my girlfriend, and if I was waiting to see her pupils do ANYTHING before I slipped, i'd be explaining a broken nose at work tomorrow...

Maybe it was just Ali blowing smoke up a reporters butt about what makes him so quick, or some sort of expert trying to help explain why Ali was a cut above the rest...

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Originally Posted by Salty

I know my main sparring partner raises his eyebrows when he is about to do something, everyone has a rhymth and a tell which gives it away. The best just seem to have very small tells and constantly change their rhythm. Look at past fights and you will start to pick out this, I was watching an am fight and you could almost predict exactly when the guy was about to throw. If I can find it on youtube again i'll try post it here.

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Yeah that's cool, that's the stuff i'm talking about...

That's obviously something a good trainer would work with you with eventually true? Ss you're always going to be a step behind if you're telegraphing all your punches, even just with raising your eyebrows etc.. Does he wonder why you're always getting out the way of the punches he thinks he sneaking at you??
Everything contributing to the science and depth of boxing - The basic sport of standing face to face with another guy, who's one intention is to punch you cleanly as hard and often as possible...

There are few sports that go so deeply into our survival instincts of looking another man in the eye and for 3 minute segments, it's metaphorically "kill or be killed"...


*a couple of Jack Daniels and I get a little philosophical.. sorry.. Just love everything that boxing is, in the ring*

The Head gives it away, thats why great fighters have good Oral stability. Poor balance moves the Head when it shouldnt move.

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Originally Posted by Dizaster

I'm studying psychology and therapy stuff at the moment, and am currently on a section on thoughts and eye movement etc, and how different thoughts and moods can make your pupils get bigger and smaller..


ANYWAY

It said that one of Ali's secrets was that he would watch an opponents eyes, and could see their pupils constrict right before they would throw a power punch..
Like, being a professional boxer, everything become pretty automatic, but even so, the brain has to think of an action before sending the message to the muscles to act. Even if it's only a split second.. So as soon as Ali's opponent would have it in their head to launch an attack with some intent, their pupils would tell the story right before, and he was able to react that split second quicker than looking for the action in the muscles....

I though it was very interesting.. I havn't had a chance to try this out, and it might be a little difficult to just pick up at first,,, but it might be something worth concentrating a little to see if there is anything there... Things like this may even be a part of a lot of good defensive fighters instincts, without them even realising it. Like you need to build up the instinct of just being able to react to the subtle things in an opponent that let you know what he's about to..

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That's neat. I'd think that it would the opposite. For instance in poker, if a guy gets an amazing hand his eyes will automatically dilate, the same would happen if a hot girl flashes you, your pupils would become as large as saucers. :hubbahubba:

I agree that good defensive fighters have good instincts when it comes to seeing what's going on and responding appropriately. I believe that it's a product of good habits plus experience. In a sense a good fighter knows what their opponent is going to do because their own actions set up what their opponent is allowed to do.

Although the situations change, the best fighters are the best liars, and from the first bell to the last they are in control of what there opponents can do. It's like in a game of chess or checkers, you set up situation which then leads to different situations that give you the advantage, and at the same time your actions influence what options your opponent has (and most likely ones that they'll take).

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Originally Posted by Scrap

The Head gives it away, thats why great fighters have good Oral stability. Poor balance moves the Head when it shouldnt move.

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That's right. :) Fighters whose head leans forward can be much more predictable. Their body has to compensate and they're more limited in what they can do boxing-wise.

Thats a good post Chris, good insight all true. ;D

It wouldnt surprise me,lets face it,the eyes are every bit as part of the body as any other part. But youd have to be damned good to read it on the fly.


But it does feed in to two things I allways stress.
If a fights coming up I want tape on the other guy in advance,and one of the reasons I do, is to pick up patterns. Guy we just got a majority draw with, had two rythms that are consistent,right before he throws,his hands come from a rest position right to a double up position. And he allways circles to the left. Watch the hands and cut the ring.
And I allways stress to my fighters to be arythmic in their punches and their footwork,giving away the element of surprise is giving something away

Could work for and could work against if you're smart.
If someone obviously relies only on your eyes and you dont look him in the eyes and fight off his elbow and knee movements to read and react to his intentions, what becomes of his habit that night?