How weak is the heavyweight division really?

I know we are told constantly what a pitiful division the heavyweight division is and how totally weak and ordinary it is.

But is it really as bad as people say?

Is Wladmir Klitshcko for example a worse champion than for example Kendall Holt, Steven Lueveno, Chad Dawson, Mikell Kessler, Tomasz Adamek, Nate Campbell etc?

What about Vitali Klitschko?

I actually think if these two were in any division other than the heavyweights people would rate them much higher, Wlad in particular would likely be on the p4p rankings for his continued dominance.

Then we have David Haye. Consider the fuss that was made about a no skills brawler like Michael Katsidis and how added to the lightweight divsion, is not Haye an exciting talent at heavyweight?

Then we have promising prospects like amatuer world champ Odlanier Solis, Alexander Povetkin and solid fighters like Ruslan Chagaev, Eddie Chambers etc.

Ok it's hardly stacked but I think the likes of both Klitschko's, Haye, Chagaev, Solis and Chambers would rise to the top of pretty much any weight class there were in.

All I'm saying is it's not nearly so bad as people claim.

Yes there is some awful dross in there, but there are 4 or 5 world class fighters in the division that certainly match up to the world champs in many of boxings lower divisions.

Your views?

I'd say pretty weak some fighters are talented but there too lazy to train, the fights are boring and alot of the fights for me aren't very skilled affairs. Most of the Heavyweight fights consist of hugging/mauling certainly not what i would call skill.

And it doesn't help that the best Heavyweight in the world isn't fan friendly either, it also speaks volumes that two former Middleweights in the last year. Have had a crack at the Heavyweights, would that have happened years ago ? no way.

There is a few upcoming Heavyweight talents but overall the Heavyweight division, is probably the weakest its been since the 80s, but atleast in the 80s you had skilled Heavyweights. Although they threw there career down the toilet.

But i would put money on the lost talent of the 80s Greg Page, Tony Tubbs, Tim Witherspoon, Tony Tucker, ETC. Beating most of the Heavyweights today. Infact i'd think they would all own a piece of the Heavyweight title.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

I know we are told constantly what a pitiful division the heavyweight division is and how totally weak and ordinary it is.

But is it really as bad as people say?

Is Wladmir Klitshcko for example a worse champion than for example Kendall Holt, Steven Lueveno, Chad Dawson, Mikell Kessler, Tomasz Adamek, Nate Campbell etc?

What about Vitali Klitschko?

I actually think if these two were in any division other than the heavyweights people would rate them much higher, Wlad in particular would likely be on the p4p rankings for his continued dominance.

Then we have David Haye. Consider the fuss that was made about a no skills brawler like Michael Katsidis and how added to the lightweight divsion, is not Haye an exciting talent at heavyweight?

Then we have promising prospects like amatuer world champ Odlanier Solis, Alexander Povetkin and solid fighters like Ruslan Chagaev, Eddie Chambers etc.

Ok it's hardly stacked but I think the likes of both Klitschko's, Haye, Chagaev, Solis and Chambers would rise to the top of pretty much any weight class there were in.

All I'm saying is it's not nearly so bad as people claim.

Yes there is some awful dross in there, but there are 4 or 5 world class fighters in the division that certainly match up to the world champs in many of boxings lower divisions.

Your views?

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The two I've highlighted are those who I think ARE better champs than Wlad, although there are others there who you could make an argument for.

Personally I don't think that it's that the Klitschkos themselves are shit, I think they are both incredibly talented, I think it's just that for the past five years roughly, there has not really been any credible challengers to them. Honestly, they've really fought some pretty ordinary and/or faded former contenders, and I think this stops them getting the credit they deserve.

However, there are starting to be some credible challengers & I think Haye & Arreola at least offer the HW division the chance to have some loud personalities back in it. Haye on his own has already generated a surge more interest by virtue of being the CW champ & his own brand of personality that I know you are so fond of Bilbo ;)

I think there is some talent, but it seems that the few talented fighters dont train properly or stay busy enough. Guys like Chagaev or Arreola could be better than they are. I look at a guy like Juan Carlos Gomez, and he has a lot of talent, probably the most in the division but he only fought once last year and hes 35. Just the fact that conteders and champions from the mid 90s even 80s are still highly ranked fighters I think speaks volumes. Also some of the undefeated "prospects" pad their records and never step up the competition. As far as dominance and consistency goes, Wlad is the only dominant heayweight right now. There are few heavyweights that I feel are fighting at their potential like Eddie Chambers, Alex Povetkin and I guess they deserve credit. As a whole though, yes it is a weak division.

I dont think the heavyweight division is any weaker than it was when Lennox Lewis was Champion....Everyone likes to talk about how weak the division is and how bad the champs are now.....I remember everyone saying the same thing when Lennox was the champ and I hear people say Tyson was overrated because he never really faced a great figher...yadda...yadda..yadda.....So who actually was a hall of fame heavy weight in their prime facing other hall of fame heavyweights in their prime???? (maybe Ali, Foreman was the last one???)

Lennox wasnt recognized as a great fighter til he retired and 5 years down the road people will be talking about the good old days when the brothers Klitchskos were lining them up and knocking them out....

People always look for a reason to complain about something....We are seeing something that has never been done before, two brothers at the top of the division (and to top it off knocking people out), take some time and enjoy, trust me, they wont be there forever.....

So hitting backspace while reviewing a post deletes it ??? Wasn't all that positive anyway:-X.But I miss the mid 90's....now those were some "what if" match ups.

In comparison with the top divisions in boxing today, the heavyweights are weak. And if there really ARE good prospects out there, let's see some match-making to get some of these prospects to face each other.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

I know we are told constantly what a pitiful division the heavyweight division is and how totally weak and ordinary it is.

But is it really as bad as people say?

Is Wladmir Klitshcko for example a worse champion than for example Kendall Holt, Steven Lueveno, Chad Dawson, Mikell Kessler, Tomasz Adamek, Nate Campbell etc?

What about Vitali Klitschko?

I actually think if these two were in any division other than the heavyweights people would rate them much higher, Wlad in particular would likely be on the p4p rankings for his continued dominance.

Then we have David Haye. Consider the fuss that was made about a no skills brawler like Michael Katsidis and how added to the lightweight divsion, is not Haye an exciting talent at heavyweight?

Then we have promising prospects like amatuer world champ Odlanier Solis, Alexander Povetkin and solid fighters like Ruslan Chagaev, Eddie Chambers etc.

Ok it's hardly stacked but I think the likes of both Klitschko's, Haye, Chagaev, Solis and Chambers would rise to the top of pretty much any weight class there were in.

All I'm saying is it's not nearly so bad as people claim.

Yes there is some awful dross in there, but there are 4 or 5 world class fighters in the division that certainly match up to the world champs in many of boxings lower divisions.

Your views?

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I really don't believe that. I don't think Wladimir Klitschko, a one dimensional fighter with only the outsitde game to work with would rise to the top of ever division he was in. Chagaev? Chagaev is nothing special at all really he is not half the P4P talent that half th eother guys who are top 5 in their division are.

Seriously, the heavyweight division is the ONLY division where I can watch of yesteryear and pretty much assure myself, yeah, these guys would kick the guys of today's ass. Could anyone say with any sort of definity that the 1985 super bowl shuffle Bears would kick the 2007 Giants ass? No, because the speed and athleticism has increased.

WTF is Wlad good for on the inside? I took notes on the Rahman fight he was holding ever time on the inside until the very end where he was actually setting up punches on the inside. He would not be able to fuck with half the heavyweight champions of years past imo, that's no faul,t ot Wlad he is the best heavyweight of today, undisputed. But other then that, yeah the heavyweights of today are just as bad. Is there any sort of Lamont Peterson, Ty Barnett, Victor Ortiz for the heavyweights? Hell no. Do we want to compare the overall skill levels of Wlad vs Nate Campbell? No we don't.

Tyson fought in the weakest era in boxing history. When he finally fought 2 good fighters he was KTFO. Don't get it twisted, the late 80's early 90's HW was much weaker than it is today.

Twice as strong as it was this time lasy year! And as for the late eighties it was stronger than todays IMO You had people like Witherspoon, Tyson, Bonecrusher Smith, Bruno, Holyfield was moving up, Lennox had just won the olympics. Personally I think the late eighties was slightly better than todays lot. Not much but slightly!

The real problem for HW boxing is that casual fans and the man in the street dont know who the world champion is,so they lose interest.


In times gone by when the HW division has been weak the champ has still been a house hold name.

Multy world champions at the same weight is killing boxing IMO.

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Originally Posted by porkypara

The real problem for HW boxing is that casual fans and the man in the street dont know who the world champion is,so they lose interest.


In times gone by when the HW division has been weak the champ has still been a house hold name.

Multy world champions at the same weight is killing boxing IMO.

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I totally agree. Boxing needs someone like David Haye who is young and marketable to become undisputed heavyweight champ and boxing will be big news again and the heavyweight champion will again be THE elite man in all sports!

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Originally Posted by rjj tszyu

Quote:

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Originally Posted by porkypara

The real problem for HW boxing is that casual fans and the man in the street dont know who the world champion is,so they lose interest.


In times gone by when the HW division has been weak the champ has still been a house hold name.

Multy world champions at the same weight is killing boxing IMO.

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I totally agree. Boxing needs someone like David Haye who is young and marketable to become undisputed heavyweight champ and boxing will be big news again and the heavyweight champion will again be THE elite man in all sports!

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The HW title used to be the greatest prize in sports now its been split more ways than a birthday cake.

Boxing has got to be the only major sport in the world where the so called governing bodies actualy make the sport worse and make less people watch it.

The saddest thing of all is that the geaeral public still love a good boxing match,its just they dont understand who the champs are any more and are totaly confused to the point they dont care.

Weak. Very weak.:p
specially with the "Jab you to death brothers";D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

I know we are told constantly what a pitiful division the heavyweight division is and how totally weak and ordinary it is.

But is it really as bad as people say?

Is Wladmir Klitshcko for example a worse champion than for example Kendall Holt, Steven Lueveno, Chad Dawson, Mikell Kessler, Tomasz Adamek, Nate Campbell etc?

What about Vitali Klitschko?

I actually think if these two were in any division other than the heavyweights people would rate them much higher, Wlad in particular would likely be on the p4p rankings for his continued dominance.

Then we have David Haye. Consider the fuss that was made about a no skills brawler like Michael Katsidis and how added to the lightweight divsion, is not Haye an exciting talent at heavyweight?

Then we have promising prospects like amatuer world champ Odlanier Solis, Alexander Povetkin and solid fighters like Ruslan Chagaev, Eddie Chambers etc.

Ok it's hardly stacked but I think the likes of both Klitschko's, Haye, Chagaev, Solis and Chambers would rise to the top of pretty much any weight class there were in.

All I'm saying is it's not nearly so bad as people claim.

Yes there is some awful dross in there, but there are 4 or 5 world class fighters in the division that certainly match up to the world champs in many of boxings lower divisions.

Your views?

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The problem is that the fights are not exciting. Wlad vs. Sultan is case in point. 2 world champions willing to put on a bore fest with neither willing to commit to actually fighting. What people want to see is a fighter going for a devastating knockout. What we have is a man like Wlad who could have finished off Sultan, being too afraid of being knocked out himself that he opted to jab his way to victory. If you have no killer instinct, people don't want to watch you.