Daft question time, but what happens with the Ring belt if it's vacant? Do fighters fight for it like they would with an alphabet title?
Just noticed on Ring website that more than half of the Ring titles are vacant..
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Daft question time, but what happens with the Ring belt if it's vacant? Do fighters fight for it like they would with an alphabet title?
Just noticed on Ring website that more than half of the Ring titles are vacant..
To win the Ring Belt there has to be a fight between the #1 rated guy in a division & either the guy rated at #2 or #3. Sometimes though they don't sanction the belt if the guy is at #3 if they don't think the guy can win as in the recent Mosley-Margarito fight (guess they got one WAY wrong) ;D
Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMerkin
isnt it a case of for #3 to be eligible for it, he needs to have already have beaten the guy at #2 ? id be suprised if it was just the case that they didnt think mosley could win and therefore not allowed the belt to be up for grabs especially with the rings link to GBP
It has to be between and #1 and #2. They only allow the #1 and #3 exception if there is not a great difference between #2 and #3. It has nothing to do with whether they think he can win.
My understanding was that there needed to be little discernible difference in quality between #2 & #3, or to put it another way that #3 should be nearer in quality to #2 than #4. I think that's what I remember reading anyway. Mosley should have qualified, basically, other than the fact that off the back of the Mayorga performance, the Ring didn't consider him close enough to Cotto.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanhattonQuote:
Originally Posted by JazMerkin
isnt it a case of for #3 to be eligible for it, he needs to have already have beaten the guy at #2 ? id be suprised if it was just the case that they didnt think mosley could win and therefore not allowed the belt to be up for grabs especially with the rings link to GBP
Your right. I also think Mosely should have qualified; however, the ratings board consists of over 35 boxing writers, and although the vote was split they decided not to sanction it for the World title. There main reason was that #2 Cotto had recently beaten Mosely. However, many people criticized this decision due to how close the cotto mosely fight was.Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMerkinMy understanding was that there needed to be little discernible difference in quality between #2 & #3, or to put it another way that #3 should be nearer in quality to #2 than #4. I think that's what I remember reading anyway. Mosley should have qualified, basically, other than the fact that off the back of the Mayorga performance, the Ring didn't consider him close enough to Cotto.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanhattonQuote:
Originally Posted by JazMerkin
isnt it a case of for #3 to be eligible for it, he needs to have already have beaten the guy at #2 ? id be suprised if it was just the case that they didnt think mosley could win and therefore not allowed the belt to be up for grabs especially with the rings link to GBP
Here is the ratings panal:
Mark Abrams
Carlos Arias
Eric Armit
Nick Charles
Brian Doogan
Coyote Duran
Margaret Goodman, M.D.
Steve Farhood
Doug Fischer
Lee Groves
Jack Hirsch
Michael Hirsley
Keith Idec
Carlos Irusta
Ted Lerner
Marc Lichtenfeld
Jessi Losado
Scott Mallon
Rich Marotta
David Mayo
Barry McGuigan
Marty Mulcahey
Bernard Osuna
Vittorio Parisi
Matt Richardson
Cliff Rold
Rick Scharmberg
Don Steinberg
Joe Tessitore
Paul Upham
Claude Vesque
Calvin Watkins
John Whistler
Phil Woolever
Kurt Wolfheimer 1
Vacant Ring Mag belts are more confusing imo.
I gotta disagree... I'd rather have a vacant championship than 3 or 4 guys all claiming to be the champion. Thats confusing to me!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Pacstraightleft
As for Mosley qualifying, at 1st I thought Margarito/ Mosley should be for the vacant championship. I thought if Margarito won he woulda beaten the #1 & #3 guys in the division. More the championship criteria there! But then I started thinking did Mosley really qualify?
My biggest problem was Williams. Sure he fought at 154 but so did Mosley in his last fight against Mayorga. So in that sense if Williams was removed from 147 then Mosley should have been too. (I can't see why Williams isn't rated at both 154 & 147 like Pacquiao is at 147 & 135).
2nd Mosley lost to Cotto, albeit by close decision it was still an offical defeat.
3rd Mosley's last win at 147 was February 2007 almost 2 years ago prior to the Margarito fight while Williams' was June 2008 & he moved up for bigger fight not due to weight issues.
Overall I just didn't think Mosley qualified being that without Williams' unjustified removal he would have still been ranked 4th & 3 outta his last 5 fights coming in were at 154.
Ring's preferential treatment for PAC being rated at 135 and 147 at the same time? ;) I think no, PAC deserves it... ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by GalaxyI gotta disagree... I'd rather have a vacant championship than 3 or 4 guys all claiming to be the champion. Thats confusing to me!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Pacstraightleft
As for Mosley qualifying, at 1st I thought Margarito/ Mosley should be for the vacant championship. I thought if Margarito won he woulda beaten the #1 & #3 guys in the division. More the championship criteria there! But then I started thinking did Mosley really qualify?
My biggest problem was Williams. Sure he fought at 154 but so did Mosley in his last fight against Mayorga. So in that sense if Williams was removed from 147 then Mosley should have been too. (I can't see why Williams isn't rated at both 154 & 147 like Pacquiao is at 147 & 135).
2nd Mosley lost to Cotto, albeit by close decision it was still an offical defeat.
3rd Mosley's last win at 147 was February 2007 almost 2 years ago prior to the Margarito fight while Williams' was June 2008 & he moved up for bigger fight not due to weight issues.
Overall I just didn't think Mosley qualified being that without Williams' unjustified removal he would have still been ranked 4th & 3 outta his last 5 fights coming in were at 154.
Paul Williams last 2 fights were at 160 (against a nobody) and at 154 (for an interim title). Williams left 147 two fights ago so that's why he's not rated there anymore IMO...
.
There was an article on the Ring site before the Mosley fight explaining that they polled the panel and just over half felt it shouldn't be a title fight due to Mosley's loss over Cotto.
Vic Darchinyan must have the biggest complaint about not being champion I'd have thought.
Since the 2nd Forrest fight which happened in July 2002 coming into the Margarito Mosley had only fought at 147 twice & one of those fights was a loss.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxerRing's preferential treatment for PAC being rated at 135 and 147 at the same time? ;) I think no, PAC deserves it... ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by GalaxyI gotta disagree... I'd rather have a vacant championship than 3 or 4 guys all claiming to be the champion. Thats confusing to me!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Pacstraightleft
As for Mosley qualifying, at 1st I thought Margarito/ Mosley should be for the vacant championship. I thought if Margarito won he woulda beaten the #1 & #3 guys in the division. More the championship criteria there! But then I started thinking did Mosley really qualify?
My biggest problem was Williams. Sure he fought at 154 but so did Mosley in his last fight against Mayorga. So in that sense if Williams was removed from 147 then Mosley should have been too. (I can't see why Williams isn't rated at both 154 & 147 like Pacquiao is at 147 & 135).
2nd Mosley lost to Cotto, albeit by close decision it was still an offical defeat.
3rd Mosley's last win at 147 was February 2007 almost 2 years ago prior to the Margarito fight while Williams' was June 2008 & he moved up for bigger fight not due to weight issues.
Overall I just didn't think Mosley qualified being that without Williams' unjustified removal he would have still been ranked 4th & 3 outta his last 5 fights coming in were at 154.
Paul Williams last 2 fights were at 160 (against a nobody) and at 154 (for an interim title). Williams left 147 two fights ago so that's why he's not rated there anymore IMO...
.
Williams fought twice at 147 in 2008 alone (both against Quintana).
Mosleys only fight in 2008 was at 154!
I agree Pacquiao should be rated at both weights but based on the facts I just provided Williams should still be ranked at 147 as well.
They ranked Jones Jr at heavy & light-heavy after he defeated Ruiz & Hatton at 147 & 140 after his win over Collazo. I just feel Williams deserves the same treatment as he has never stated that he will not return to 147.
Also I think those facts about Mosley clearly indicate why he didn't qualify for the championship!
doesnt the fact that williams took TWO consecutive fights outside of the division and also vacated the WBO which is almost a statment of intent to not return to 147 take him out of the ratings?Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaxySince the 2nd Forrest fight which happened in July 2002 coming into the Margarito Mosley had only fought at 147 twice & one of those fights was a loss.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxerRing's preferential treatment for PAC being rated at 135 and 147 at the same time? ;) I think no, PAC deserves it... ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Galaxy
Paul Williams last 2 fights were at 160 (against a nobody) and at 154 (for an interim title). Williams left 147 two fights ago so that's why he's not rated there anymore IMO...
.
Williams fought twice at 147 in 2008 alone (both against Quintana).
Mosleys only fight in 2008 was at 154!
I agree Pacquiao should be rated at both weights but based on the facts I just provided Williams should still be ranked at 147 as well.
They ranked Jones Jr at heavy & light-heavy after he defeated Ruiz & Hatton at 147 & 140 after his win over Collazo. I just feel Williams deserves the same treatment as he has never stated that he will not return to 147.
Also I think those facts about Mosley clearly indicate why he didn't qualify for the championship!
I agree... Very solid reasons why Williams not rated anymore at 147...Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanhattondoesnt the fact that williams took TWO consecutive fights outside of the division and also vacated the WBO which is almost a statement of intent to not return to 147 take him out of the ratings?Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaxySince the 2nd Forrest fight which happened in July 2002 coming into the Margarito Mosley had only fought at 147 twice & one of those fights was a loss.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer
Williams fought twice at 147 in 2008 alone (both against Quintana).
Mosleys only fight in 2008 was at 154!
I agree Pacquiao should be rated at both weights but based on the facts I just provided Williams should still be ranked at 147 as well.
They ranked Jones Jr at heavy & light-heavy after he defeated Ruiz & Hatton at 147 & 140 after his win over Collazo. I just feel Williams deserves the same treatment as he has never stated that he will not return to 147.
Also I think those facts about Mosley clearly indicate why he didn't qualify for the championship!
Not necessarily, at the time Williams was looking at the Margarito rematch. When Margarito turned it down Williams announced he look for the biggest fights between 147 & 160. But clearly indicated that he would return to 147 for the big fights... namely Margarito. His fight with Kolle tested the waters at 160 & there was talk of a Pavlik fight. When that didn't materialize Williams then fought the #2 guy at 154 in Phillips. What would have been the point of paying sanctioning fees. I wish more fighters would give up those crap trinkets & save themselves some money.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxerI agree... Very solid reasons why Williams not rated anymore at 147...Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanhattondoesnt the fact that williams took TWO consecutive fights outside of the division and also vacated the WBO which is almost a statement of intent to not return to 147 take him out of the ratings?Quote:
Originally Posted by Galaxy
Either way with Williams rated or not Mosley's one win at 147 in 6 & 1/2 years did not qualify him for the championship imo, especially with Cotto the man who had beaten him rated at #2 with quality wins over Judah, Urkal & Quintana at 147.