Ortiz And Laguna, Two Of The Greatest Lightweights Of All Time

Usually when people talk about the greatest lightweights of all time the great Roberto Durans name comes up and Benny Leonards, and rightfully so. Both were top lightweights of all time without question, you could make a case for either man being #1. The lightweight division has had so much talent throughout the years, more than any other division imo. The bulk of this talent, was in the 60s ans early 70s. Both of the fighters fought during the golden era of the lightweights and took on some of the greatest fighters the division has ever seen, usually coming out victorious or losing a close battle to another all time great. Neither man was afraid to travel to another fighters backyard to prove he was the best, often times this would result in them losing a controversial fight. In the the three bouts that Ortiz and Laguna faced each other, the fights were staged in Panama, Puerto Rico, and New York.

Two-time Lightweight World Champion Carlos Ortiz- Born in Ponce, Puerto Rico, Carlos would move with his family to New York. In his early years he was getting into street fights so like other kids in the neighborhood he began to learn to fight in the boxing gym. He began boxing at age 10 and after around 40 amateur fights he went pro at 18. He went on to win fights against fellow greats: Ismael Laguna, Nicolino Locche, Sugar Ramos, Flash Eldore, and Duilio Loi. He also defeated the likes of Lou Filippo, Johnny Bizzarro, Kenny Lane and Joe Brown. One of the most clever fighters and one of the best jabs of all time. Throughout his career the only fighter he decisively lost to was a young future champion in Ken Buchanan in his final fight. Ortiz was one of the three greatest Lightweights of all time along side Roberto Duran and Benny Leonard imo. I wouldnt argue the order of any of them.

Two-time Lightweight World Champion Ismael Laguna- Ismael was born into the poverty of Colon, Panama. At 10 years old he was working in a butcher shop to make money to help his family. He had dreams of being a champion like local legend Alfonso "Panama Al" Brown. He turned pro at 17 and chased his dream of becoming champion. He too had one of the best jabs the division has ever seen and was a smart pure boxer. Throughout his career Laguna faced the best of the best. He fought Vicente Saldivar, Nicolino Locche, Carlos Ortiz (went 1-2), Carlos Hernandez, Guts Ishimatsu, Mando Ramos, Ken Buchanan, Flash Eldore, Angel Robinson Garcia, and among others. Ironically, both him and Ortiz would end their careers on a loss to Buchanan. Another Panamanian future great, Roberto Duran, was on his way up when Laguna, his idol, was on his way down, but It was Luguna who was the peoples champion throughout his reign.

I just don't get posters...

Brilliant write up you did here...
You obviously put some thought into it and spent the time to put it together. Yet not one single reply on it. ???

Yet I see 5, 6 threads that are about the same fighter and all have multiple replies...

I don't get it...
(Rant over)

Anyway I think Roberto is #1 but anytime I refer to Ortiz I refer to him as argueably #1. However IMO the same can't be said for Laguna but believe me it does not take anything away from him.

I had the opp. to meet Ortiz 2 yrs. ago and I gotta say what a treat it was to meet him and talk to him about some of his bouts. He even signed a glove for me and took a pic. with him.
Ortiz fought some of the best opposition of his time and has one of the best resumes and list of who's who Loi, Lane, Brown, Elorde, Laguna, Locche, Bizzaro, Ramos, Cruz & Buchanan.
I've read several articles where the fight is depicted as a Ortiz win when he fought Locche I've often wondered why there was no rematch for that fight.

I think Lagunas def. under estimated and unappreciated, Laguna was an elusive fighter great foot work he used the entire ring and just fought at his own pace always trying to dictate fights and counter his opponents.
Something a lot of people don't really know is that the great Mexican Featherweight Vicente Saldivar beat him while they were both early in their careers. One thing that puzzles me about Laguna is that although not considered a hard hitter he stopped "Morocho" Hernandez in his prime... Go figure???
The Laguna vs. Mando Ramos (RIP) fight was a blood bath and can only be described as savage and animalistic...

Also 1 thing I find very interesting is that 2 former Heavyweight champs refereed 2 of their 3 fights... Jersey Joe Walcott & Rocky Marciano not a lot of people know that. They also both lost to Buchanan though past their prime.


Good stuff BoomBoom. :appl:

Thank you so much Mick, you honestly made my day brotha :) I did put some thought into this one, and though I may not be the best writer, I thought talking about two underappreciated and great fighters would be worth discussing considering they are rarely mentioned. I guess I was wrong, and thats dissapointing but thats also why I post less and less.

That said, I agree with you 100% Laguna couldnt make a case for being the greatest of all time but he was right up there and could compete with anyone past or present. He was one of the the better movers of the division and even though he wasnt a huge puncher, he could batter just about anyone with that jab...I rate Duran slightly above Ortiz, but I think if they fought prime for prime, it could be either mans fight.

Bumped.

Bumped ... and some side notes ...

Ortiz has 2 wins over the great Flash Elorde while Laguna has a loss to Flash Elorde ...
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Excellent post about two underrated fighters, I believe Duran was scheduled to fight Ortiz in 1972 and it all fell through at the last minute. Ortiz would have still been a tough nut to crack for Duran even then.

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Originally Posted by BoomBoom

Thank you so much Mick, you honestly made my day brotha :) I did put some thought into this one, and though I may not be the best writer, I thought talking about two underappreciated and great fighters would be worth discussing considering they are rarely mentioned. I guess I was wrong, and thats dissapointing but thats also why I post less and less.

That said, I agree with you 100% Laguna couldnt make a case for being the greatest of all time but he was right up there and could compete with anyone past or present. He was one of the the better movers of the division and even though he wasnt a huge puncher, he could batter just about anyone with that jab...I rate Duran slightly above Ortiz, but I think if they fought prime for prime, it could be either mans fight.

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You shouldn't feel that way...
You keep posting... Just know that sometimes people don't post or reply maybe cause they feel they can't add something to the thread but I don't think that's the case.

Also know that people are reading your posts.
I can't tell you how manyt times I've spent a lot of time putting something together only to have about 7 people comment/reply on it it's just the way it goes sometimes. But don't let this stop you cause you gotta keep in mind people are reading your posts and also learning from them so DON'T be dissappointed if anything be encouraged to post more posts like that so people can learn off of you. :)

For the record I think Duran beats Ortiz & Laguna surprisingly I think Laguna the mover gives him the most trouble early but I think Duran TKOs him late in the fight. Ortiz I think would be a fight he'd handle because of the styles I just feel it would be a more managable fight for him.

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Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer

Bumped ... and some side notes ...

Ortiz has 2 wins over the great Flash Elorde while Laguna has a loss to Flash Elorde ...
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True, Ortiz even stopped him over in Eldores backyard to take his title. Flash was another great fighter who would fight anyone.

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Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

Excellent post about two underrated fighters, I believe Duran was scheduled to fight Ortiz in 1972 and it all fell through at the last minute. Ortiz would have still been a tough nut to crack for Duran even then.

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Thank you sir..I think in 1972 Duran would have stopped Ortiz, but your right he still would have given him a fight.

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

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Originally Posted by BoomBoom

Thank you so much Mick, you honestly made my day brotha :) I did put some thought into this one, and though I may not be the best writer, I thought talking about two underappreciated and great fighters would be worth discussing considering they are rarely mentioned. I guess I was wrong, and thats dissapointing but thats also why I post less and less.

That said, I agree with you 100% Laguna couldnt make a case for being the greatest of all time but he was right up there and could compete with anyone past or present. He was one of the the better movers of the division and even though he wasnt a huge puncher, he could batter just about anyone with that jab...I rate Duran slightly above Ortiz, but I think if they fought prime for prime, it could be either mans fight.

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You shouldn't feel that way...
You keep posting... Just know that sometimes people don't post or reply maybe cause they feel they can't add something to the thread but I don't think that's the case.

Also know that people are reading your posts.
I can't tell you how manyt times I've spent a lot of time putting something together only to have about 7 people comment/reply on it it's just the way it goes sometimes. But don't let this stop you cause you gotta keep in mind people are reading your posts and also learning from them so DON'T be dissappointed if anything be encouraged to post more posts like that so people can learn off of you. :)

For the record I think Duran beats Ortiz & Laguna surprisingly I think Laguna the mover gives him the most trouble early but I think Duran TKOs him late in the fight. Ortiz I think would be a fight he'd handle because of the styles I just feel it would be a more managable fight for him.

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Naw man I dont take it personal. There are tons of posts that I havent responded to. But like you said, it just seems there are a lot of posts about the same fighters, same things, some of them are clearly to bash a fighter unprovocated and those are the threads that seem to be taking over.

No doubt Laguna would trouble Duran I agree with that. I dont think Duran would stop him though as no man had ever done that. Ortiz was never stopped either except for the Buchanan fight which he retired I think but was clearly past it. I think both fights would be decisions and probably close ones.

That is some pretty solid stuff BoomBoom,occurs to me that sometimes we get caught up in all the bickering on here with 'my fighter is better than your fighter' that some of the well thought out insight gets over looked.My bad.Thanks for the education here Boom,Appreciated much.

From what Ive seen and read on Laguna,that man was a slickster with superb mobility and strikes me as one that could walk right into todays era and do very well.Very fluid,great jabber.What he did to Ramos was torturous.Heard that Ortizs saw Laguna training prior to the 1st meeting and pulled out with a 'fever' to train up proper...and Lagunas still put on a smooth show.

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Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'Nawlins

That is some pretty solid stuff BoomBoom,occurs to me that sometimes we get caught up in all the bickering on here with 'my fighter is better than your fighter' that some of the well thought out insight gets over looked.My bad.Thanks for the education here Boom,Appreciated much.

From what Ive seen and read on Laguna,that man was a slickster with superb mobility and strikes me as one that could walk right into todays era and do very well.Very fluid,great jabber.What he did to Ramos was torturous.Heard that Ortizs saw Laguna training prior to the 1st meeting and pulled out with a 'fever' to train up proper...and Lagunas still put on a smooth show.

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Thanks Spicoli, your a solid poster man, you know your sh@t. id be a hypocrite to say i dont get caught up in pointless debates myself.

I didnt know that about Ortiz training for Laguna, thats interesting. When Laguna fought he had his entire country behind him, he must have trained hard.

Great stuff BoomBoom!

For me Ortiz is definately a top 10 all time lightweight, Laguna top 20!

I'd have Duran 1st, then guys like Leonard, Whitaker & Gans

... then Williams would squeeze Ortiz outta the top 5!

Thanks Man. Leonard, Gans, Williams, cant agrue against any of them top 5 they must have near 400 wins between them! Whitaker was a great fighter at any weight. I dont have him top 5 based on his opposition, but he definately has a case for it.