The balance of nature returns.Rains extingushing our fires.

Just hit right then :D bucketing down :D and be here all day,this is good for the national parks burning, the ones that we cant get into . :happy0931sb4:

I wonder what that freak assed pastor who reckons God burnt our ass to send us to Hell :rolleyes: for voting pro abortion would state about this?
I wish someone would stick a micropone under his chin again and press the fool for more answers.

And I wonder what he'd say about their being floods with loss of life in the north of Australia?

Whats that?? too much of a GOD thing ? :LOLATYOU: :bashtroll4cx4:

Fucking idiots; I love God and the freedom we are given to evolve as we will, really its one hell of a project :), to allow somethings a turn at self control, right or wrong, is big.

But these fuckwits who claim ultimate control,judgment and vengence by the One source of life and love are the people spoken about in their own scriptures in terms of the lost.

My tanks are nearly full :lickish:.

I'd also like to know what he thinks of the 100,000's of Victorian sinners putting together in good christian fashion and giving what ever they have to help strangers in need... While the actual Christians were to busy telling us we deserved it to be forming charity for the victims....

It's easy to see all the ways church and christianity/religion are a great thing, but it's pretty funny that in a single sentence, one of it's leaders can show EVERYTHING that is wrong with it at the same time...




This rain is great though.. Hoping my lawn also turns from yellow to green this week.

Leave it to some closed minded religious zealot to capitalize on misery and suffering and use/abuse them for his own sounding board and small minded opinion.Clowns.We had a few come out after Katrina....with a straight face saying that the residence and city deserved it and the aftermath for the Cities Sinful ways :dunce:."Gods will"...wtf?



Very glad that things are looking up down under!

Well whilst I agree that the pastor was completely wrong to say things in the unsensitive way that he did, and I certainly don't believe that God is a hateful, spiteful God who wishes harm on people I do think it's an important question and one that has to be taken seriously by people of faith.

Allow me to try and explain.

If you believe in a personal God, a God who created this universe, who created us then you logically have to conclude He created it, and us becuase he's interested in what happens here, and he's actively involved in its history and sustainment. Approximately half the people in the world probably believe these statements to be true, maybe even more so, so it's hardly delusional talk so far.

So, to continue, if we do believe in God, accept that He created us, that He has an interest in our development and that He has a long term plan for humanity (all very rational postulations imo) then you would also have to accept that HE IS aware of what happens on this earth and that as He is ultimately in control, that He allows these things to happen.

So now the question is why?

Well in my observation its immediately and abundantly clear the the universe, the earth, our own bodies follow very strict and unbreakable laws of cause and effect.

If you throw yourself off a cliff, gravity will send you crashing down to an almost certain death. If you neglect to take care of your body, don't exercise, don't watch what you eat, stuff your face, you will become fat and overweight and your health will deteriorate.

If you squander your money, don't save wisely, arn't frugal according to your situation then you will likely end up in debt.

If you don't plant your crops in the Spring, they will not be ready come harvest time.

All of these are just natural laws, it's the way things work, and presumably the creator of the universe intended things to be this way, so we would learn by them. They are the rod of correction so to speak.

Well to carry this further, if this personal God who created the universe, us and is interested in and has a plan for humanity went to this effort to create cause and effect for these things then why not create a cause and effect for morality?

Of course He would (imo) as our behaviour and personal development is surely ultimately what God created us for in the first place, He wants us to become something.

Every animal and plant on this world automatically carries out its role, it does what God has commanded it to do. We as humans, are His crowning achievement because He wants us to choose to obey Him through free will rather than through preprogrammed instinct.

So if we accept that then we must accept that God wants us to behave in a certain way, and has set the universe up so that it operates according to those principles.

God says don't sleep around, don't commit sexual immorality (not just homosexuality and beastiality but fornication to) but people choose to, and therefore run the risks of suffering the natural consequences of such behaviour.

God says to respect the planet, to excercise careful dominion over it, but instead we have exploited and raped it and consequently the natural laws have been unbalanced and we suffer through all manner of enviromental problems, problems that persist and increase now.

I really do strongly believe that this IS how the universe operates.

It's not that God is punishing directly (although it cannt be ignored that in times past He has and has said He WILL come in judegment again) but rather that by turning away from God, mankind is turning away from the loving protection of God too.

So whilst I don't believe that each disaster is targeted specifically at those killed in it, I do believe that these things are happening because of man's (as a whole) persistant turning away from God and His plans for us.


That may make me sound like a madman, but to me just actually stopping and looking at this world for a moment, how it can at the same time be both so perfect and yet so cruel and evil, seems to highlight to me in huge bold lettering that God is love but that God is also Righteous and Just.

We reap what we sow. It's true for EVERYTHING in nature, in the universe and for us too.

I think it's a fair position and assessment to hold to if you are a man of faith.

:) I agree for the most, maybe just got a bit of an issue with He wants us to choose to obey Him.

Why? do you really belive he/she could possibly be lacking something that needs full filling by anothers obediance?

Its close I think, but thats where the rules and control through fear (the opposite thing to love) was born into religion and used to try to gain our mass control by others who want power over us,(unlike God).

Its what teaches us God is outside of us and seperate from us and we have to go seek which is also false.

Instead how about; like a magnet, divine love will rejoin with you in your completion whenever and where ever you decide to choose love, compassion, honesty etc at every turn.

Or maybe when we allow life to live through us fully, instead of us claiming to be seperate from all of the rest of it including ourselves and each other?

Its the mystery of life in this speck we are existing within: the fact it has been formed so that we can experience seperatness and that it is allowed fully only here for this time of ours is a gift in disguise.

It can turn into a dense and painful experience if you lose yourself in it and forget you are actually born of something much higher.

Or it can be easier/joyful even if you flow with the tides and seasons and correct times for everything as you said above.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andre

:) I agree for the most, maybe just got a bit of an issue with He wants us to choose to obey Him.

Why? do you really belive he/she could possibly be lacking something that needs full filling by anothers obediance?

Its close I think, but thats where the rules and control through fear (the opposite thing to love) was born into religion and used to try to gain our mass control by others who want power over us,(unlike God).

Its what teaches us God is outside of us and seperate from us and we have to go seek which is also false.

Instead how about; like a magnet, divine love will rejoin with you in your completion whenever and where ever you decide to choose love, compassion, honesty etc at every turn.

Or maybe when we allow life to live through us fully, instead of us claiming to be seperate from all of the rest of it including ourselves and each other?

Its the mystery of life in this speck we are existing within: the fact it has been formed so that we can experience seperatness and that it is allowed fully only here for this time of ours is a gift in disguise.

It can turn into a dense and painful experience if you lose yourself in it and forget you are actually born of something much higher.

Or it can be easier/joyful even if you flow with the tides and seasons and correct times for everything as you said above.

---

To be honest as to why He wants to obey and worship him I have no idea. Personally, and I'm sure most of us agree the idea of demanding worship from someone is the height of vanity, the desire to dominate etc.

However, although I don't understand it I do believe that our own morality, and sense of right and wrong has been instilled in us by a loving God who is moral perfection.

If we ourselves can see the cruelty in putting terrible disasters and sufferings upon people then I have to believe that a perfect God, who IS love also feels the same. Why He still allows it to continue is a mystery to me that I have no answer to, but it's clear and happening before our very eyes every second of every day that judgement, retribution, dire consequences for sin etc are facts of the universe and most definitely occurring.

As for the rest of your post, well as a believer in a personal God who is intimately involved in and concerned with creation I believe that such a God would have revealed Himself to us, and I find the Bible, and the person of Jesus Christ to be by far the most likely and probably source of that revelation.

Therefore I take all of my concepts of God, of morality, of sin and judgement from its pages and pay no attention to the thoughts of mortal man.

That may make me a fundamentalist (I agree in a sense that I am) but that is what faith is.

Ultimately it seems that what God requires most of us is our faith and belief in Him, and that correspondingly what mankind is most loath to give and determined to avoid is that very same belief.

It's an eternal battle, most will disbelieve, but many will still choose to believe, and I will be one of those, even though, just like you and others there are many many points that I don't understand and don't want to accept.

I actually think he wants us all to have enough faith to act.
Its the act that makes the being, be ing what it is. Not the thought.

I can have faith that Im a good stonemason but unless i actually get out of my faith and do great stonework I am not one and my world will remain the same how ever great my faith is.
That is why we continue to suffer at our own hands and continue to remain in this harsh dimension so that we feel the consequencies of our actions. (Look around it is exactly whats occuring).

this is deep shit , saying the suject was about rain.

Well my theory on it all is that if god created every man, BUT did not want man to create abortion, then he would not have created a man with the brain or interest or potential or willingness or disposition to create abortion...
He created every man, and even the ones that murder, he created them... And in a way, how can a man have the power to break free from his master and do something that goes entirely against what he created?? Pretty difficult in my opinion.. How can you say god created 2 men, and one does all these "good" things and one does all these "bad" things, and one is doing gods willing and one is doing the opposite? And who decided what is "good" or "bad"...
So you can have your personal feelings on things and have your morals and integrity and that is great! If more people held themselves to a higher standard and had better morals towards themselves and others, it would be a much better world..
But how can any man have the word on what god intended man (his own creation) to do, and what god never wanted him to do.. Having himself given man the faculties to do "wrong"...


That's my feelings on it.. I can hate what some people do and think it is wrong by my morals, but I can't say whether it is wrong by god or not.. And I don't think anyone else can say that.. Speak from yourself and you can't go wrong..Try to speak of what god wants and intends and you're delusional I think..

Like does god create a man and be like "Wow, I did a great job there".. Then the man starts doing something wrong and then he's like "oh no, shit, what is he doing?? I didn't want him to do that! no, damn I f'cked this one up! darnit"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

this is deep shit , saying the suject was about rain.

---

Sorry, turned into that didnt it.


"you get that on the big jobs" ;D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dizaster

Like does god create a man and be like "Wow, I did a great job there".. Then the man starts doing something wrong and then he's like "oh no, shit, what is he doing?? I didn't want him to do that! no, damn I f'cked this one up! darnit"

---

thats a very logical and human way to look at it .

Man used to think with his heart not his brain.
the brain grew with the new intellignece as did the head so childbirth beccame painful more dangerous too.
The tree of knowledge wasnt an apple tree, the tree of knowledge was thought ,intention and sexual procreative power that then lead us to the reverse death.

God isnt a man like being with control over all thought and every molacule of every human.

What we are talking about is divine creative energy and the intent behind it.

When the gift of free will was given it will never be taken back because it was given freely in love.

When people choose to commit murder etc they do so through thought their thoughts and their minds have control of them. Many times its their parents who taught them that way of thinking and being.
If they cant practice control over the mind it has control over the real them.
Its a real gift to us that it is allowed to run its course and we are allowed to run our course in this small and dense area we exist in here.