Benn?
Watson?
Eubank?
Graham?
He was better than all of them, but was no Jimmy Wilde?
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Benn?
Watson?
Eubank?
Graham?
He was better than all of them, but was no Jimmy Wilde?
I don't know enough about the fighters you've mentioned to compare Calzaghe to them, but I've recently been watching some of his old fights (if anyone knows where I can find the Eubank fight send me a PM) and there is no denying Calzaghe's skill, the only debate can be about his level of opposition.
He is legacy will always be debated because he did not have any internationally defining fights until the very end of his career. Lacy, Kessler, and Hopkins were all great wins for Calzaghe, though I though Hopkins beat him by a round, but I really think if the opportunities had presented themselves earler he would have been able to establish himself as an largely undebatable all-time great.
I suppose you could look at it in two ways: 1) Calzaghe broke through at the right time when the likes of Benn, Eubanks and Colins were at the end of their careers. He filled the void which was left by these three and got hyped to hell because he was the only real British contender out there at Super-Middle, even though I preferred Robin Reid when he was in his prime and thought that he actually beat Calzaghe the first time they fought.
2) He was born about 5 or 10 years to late and so couldn't pit his skills with the three mentioned above. I have no doubt that if he was around with these he wouldn't have been undefeated. I just don't think that he could have stood toe-to-toe with these, then again neither could they! :D
For me, he was born too late and I would have loved to have seen him in a few tear-ups with them. Don't get me wrong, he is a great fighter but he's by no means our best ever like some people say he is.
i reckon hopkins beat him aswellQuote:
Originally Posted by CFH
This debate pops up so often, hopefully I can clarify my views in a short a space as possible.
1) He did come into the division (1997-2003) with no great champions, and very few fighters to compete with him. Apart from Sven Ottke, even more dedicated to fighting in Germany than Joe seemed to be in the UK, no other titlist in the division held either of the other belts for more than a few years, the most successful of those, Byron Mitchell (4 title wins, of 6 title fights in 97-03 period), was defeated by Joe.
2) The whole fighting at home/not going to the US issue I would sum up thus: Essentially the only fighter around his weight region that would have been big enough in the mid 00's that could have made bigger money in the US than the UK was RJJ, who didn't want any part of Joe during that period. Glen Johnson was scheduled to fight Joe in the UK a few times, but hands made of fine china did for those fights.
3) His swansong in the US. RJJ was a moneyspinner between one guy wanting a last big name on his record, and one guy wanting another 0 on his bank balance. In terms of fighting Hopkins, I had him a round ahead, but these things are often down to perspective, and I just found Hopkins not wanting it enough and not putting in the work.
4) Alternative opposition. Ottke would never have happened, neither would Beyer, as Joe would have had to go to Germany for a significantly reduced paycheck, and not too much increase in profile to match that. As for his final few fights, Johnson, Dawson and Tarver tend to be the big 3 mentioned. Johnson, as the jounreyman these days doesn't have the marquee attraction. Tarver wasn't mixing with too glamourous opposition himself after losing to Hopkins, and looked like a star on the wane. As for Dawson I'd have liked to have seen it, but maybe he as well didn't have the wide-ranging appeal of RJJ. (Did you know that Dawson was a warm-up for Calzaghe v Lacy in 06, winning a KO3 against Jamie Hearn. I was there, and I don't remember it either ;) )
Ok, so maybe it wasn't concise, but I'm not a journalist any more, and word count doesn't matter any more!
As for completing the sentence: Calzaghe was good, but he was no Jimmy Wilde because he didn't consistently fight opposition often 10% or more heavier than him in bodyweight.
Calzaghe was good but he was no...... American. Change his nationality and he's top 10 all-time.
Calzaghe's a great fighter, and I think he could have beaten the guys mentioned at the start & probably would have beaten Watson & Graham. However, he didn't fight the best till too late, and he will never be able to show how good he really was. I think if he was American & had fought the same we would criticize him even more. I don't think Jones gets into an all-time Top 20, and I would have him some way above Joe. Like it or not, America is where the money & prestige is & if Joe wanted it he should have gone there. He had no problem leaving Wales to fight in Denmark & Germany so he shouldn't have expected the likes of Jones & Hopkins to come to him earlier in his career. & like others I thought Hopkins took it.
Not as good as Jimmy Wilde because he would take on a fight even if it was all against him & the other guy was the modern equivalent of 4 whole divisions above. Also willing to come out of retirement to take on the best there was. No slighting on Joe, but Wilde probably was our best ever fighter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Couldnt aggree more .
if he was american he would of got his ass handed to him a decade ago ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
joe was like a shark in a pond of goldfish :cool:
By whom?Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius Rain[B]if he was american he would of got his ass handed to him a decade ago ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
joe was like a shark in a pond of goldfish :cool:
Charles Brewer, Byron Mitchell, Scott Pemberton?Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterBy whom?Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius Rain[b]if he was american he would of got his ass handed to him a decade ago ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
joe was like a shark in a pond of goldfish :cool:
Oh yeah.. Pemberton. He would have definitely handed Calzaghe's ass to him. Thomas Tate too.Quote:
Originally Posted by superheavyrhunCharles Brewer, Byron Mitchell, Scott Pemberton?Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterBy whom?Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius Rain
They have duck of epic proportions written all over them.
come on guys you know the level of competition in the state is much tougher. quit with the nonsense.