Printable View
Why do people dog Wlad for being a careful fighter who wont take chances but than talk about how great fighters like Mayweather, Roy Jones, and B Hop are?
Some of the most boring fights I have ever watched include Mayweather and B Hop....
Everyone has their style that works and Wlad found his. At least he KO's his opponents 80-90% of the time.
Wlad looked pretty aggressive against Ruslan who was no slouch at number three by the RING.
PBF gets ripped to peices all the time for 'running'...
The difference is that when PBF 'runs' it's against people naturally much bigger than he is... not guys he outweighs by at least a stone and is a fair few inches taller than etc.
Its mainly because he is dull to watch...he never seriously goes out for the win,he always does just enough without the need to get hit or mix it up because he has a weak chin.
Again, so does Mayweather, Hopkins, and Roy Jones.......Quote:
Originally Posted by mofo2
Here we go with the glass chin, Ruslan landed a great shot after the bell right on the CHIN that sent sweat flying off Wlad's head and he walked right threw it. It was confidence that gave Wlad problems in all fights except Corrie Sanders. Sanders happened to land one right on the button....
Those fighters are taking on men virtually height and weight clones of themselves and at times will be careful..Wlad can have 6" reach advantage and 20lbs on an opponent and still fights careful...In short he's dull and predictable!Quote:
Originally Posted by HunterAgain, so does Mayweather, Hopkins, and Roy Jones.......Quote:
Originally Posted by mofo2
Here we go with the glass chin, Ruslan landed a great shot after the bell right on the CHIN that sent sweat flying off Wlad's head and he walked right threw it. It was confidence that gave Wlad problems in all fights except Corrie Sanders. Sanders happened to land one right on the button....
I'll copy and paste what i said to you in the other thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
Uhh please do not compare Wladimir Klitschko to those fighters, Roy Jones Jr was excellent to watch in his prime, he could rattle off 5 punch combinations in a blink of an eye, he also had spectacular KO's, and watching him avoid punches just by using his reflexes was masterful to watch.
Floyd Mayweather Jr may not be as exciting at the higher weightclasses, but thats because he's no longer the bigger man. Unlike Wladimir Klitschko has always been in all his fights, but he is still way more exciting to watch, and he has had some great exciting boxing masterclasses, and he's been in some dramatic exciting fights.
Bernard Hopkins hasn't been as fan friendly in the last few years or so, but when he is exciting which he has been quite alot of times. Especially in his younger career when he was a come-forward fighter. He is a pleasure to watch.
Can you tell me one fight of Wladimir Klitschkos that compare to. Any of these Floyd Mayweather Jr fights ? because you say Floyd Mayweather Jr is boring yet i have never really found him boring, except for a few of his fights at Welterweight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
Floyd Mayweather vs Jesus Chavez
Floyd Mayweather vs Diego Corrales
Floyd Mayweather vs Jose Luis Castillo 1
Floyd Mayweather vs Angel Manfredy
Floyd Mayweather vs Phillip N'dou
Floyd Mayweather vs Emanuel Augustus
Floyd Mayweather vs Zab Judah
Floyd Mayweather vs Arturo Gatti
Yeah, like myself and others have said... Floyd has only became more defensive as he has stepped in with men much bigger than he is.
When you're 20 pounds heavier than a guy you have no excuse.
Hopkins fights ugly sometimes but at least he comes to fight.
Other fighters are careful you mentioned because they have some disadvantages other fighters have on them, such as size, or youth or power.
Wiadimer has every advantage over all heavyweights in the division what does he have to be careful about?
Vlad can be boring at times but he still has the power to make it interesting at any point in a fight. 47 knockouts and 55 wins is always going to be something to watch. I was a little bored tonight but the 2nd round knock down was good and the fact that he was starting to punish another undefeated contender into submission with just a jab and right hand really made me appreciate him afterwards. Vlad knows his weaknesses but hides them pretty well. Pernell Whitaker has been called an all time great but lets be honest he could be 1 of the most boooring and careful fighters in the business. Lennox Lewis could be called careful (see Tua fight, Mavrovic etc) but he got the job done. Vlad is taking out all contenders in this era and some on short notice which should count for something.
:vd: I will compare Wlad to whoever I want. Floyd, Roy, and Bernard had every physical advantage you could have over an opponent (especially Floyd and Roy), they were some of the most physically gifted fighters (to me roy is the most physically gifted fighter ever) yet hold back because they dont want to LOSE. AND they didnt always fight the best in their division. 7 of 9 of Wlad last opponents were ranked in the RING top ten. The guy took on the number three rated heavyweight on three weeks notice who was a totally different fighter than Haye (southpaw).Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBI'll copy and paste what i said to you in the other thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
Uhh please do not compare Wladimir Klitschko to those fighters, Roy Jones Jr was excellent to watch in his prime, he could rattle off 5 punch combinations in a blink of an eye, he also had spectacular KO's, and watching him avoid punches just by using his reflexes was masterful to watch.
Floyd Mayweather Jr may not be as exciting at the higher weightclasses, but thats because he's no longer the bigger man. Unlike Wladimir Klitschko has always been in all his fights, but he is still way more exciting to watch, and he has had some great exciting boxing masterclasses, and he's been in some dramatic exciting fights.
Bernard Hopkins hasn't been as fan friendly in the last few years or so, but when he is exciting which he has been quite alot of times. Especially in his younger career when he was a come-forward fighter. He is a pleasure to watch.
My point is if you want to say Wlad is boring and doesnt take chances you cant say you are a fan of Roy, Floyd or Bernard cause they fought the same way...Careful and didnt take chances.
I cant really fault a guy for winning and doing so in dominate fashion.Thats the name of the game and some fighters do infact make the mistake of altering their approach in order to 'win' the fans.Can result in disaster.Wlad has gone through a trasformation for the better after being demolished and all but written off and has done so pretty much on his own terms.He may be held rightly or wrongly in higher regards and expectations because he is in fact...the/A Heavyweight Champion?The division at one time was belived to be the life blood of the sport.....'so goes the heavyweight,so goes the sport'.Ive always felt that was pretty limp and dated.
Of the three I can relate it a bit to Hopkins as far as cautious-calculating but strictly in the late part of career.He had a evolution as a fighter from early seek and destroy to a sharpshooter in the later years as a guy that may be guilty of admiring his work too much.He just seemed to enjoy beating guys up just as much as going for the KO and could leave you yelling at the TV 'Go for it'.But he and Jones would have noticable shifts when they had a guy.Every fighter makes calculations prior to and as the fight unfolds,especially ones that have been peeled off the mat on more than one occassion.It says alot to comeback like he has being aware of how far he had fallen.But I think Hopkins had much more confidence behind an accelerated attack and turned it up and aside from a couple of kd's at a f!!!d up 3 day notice altitude vs.a clubbing Mercado,He's not been dropped let alone hurt.
Wlad keeps winning and he's dominating virtually every round of every fight since the Sam Peter fight he can't really do any more.
I agree about Hopkins entirely, you can't tell me this fight was any less entertaining than Hopkins wins over Pavlik, Tarver and Winky, I appreciate Hopkins for his skills but he's one of the best cures for insomnia that there is.
It's also been a long time since Floyd was in an entertaining fight, his wins over Baldomir, De La Hoya and Hatton were ok but a long way from scintillating.
When you compare Manny Pacquaio's fights with Hatton and Oscar you can see right there how an exciting fan friendly fighter wins.
But I don't criticise any of them, I appreciate that all boxers have their own style. If everyone was a blood and thunder Gatti type boxing would be totally one dimensional and culturally stagnant.
Wlad poses a very difficult puzzle for today's heavyweights to solve. Its not up to him to take risks to make a fight more exciting if he doesn't want to, its up to his opponent to take risks and try to actually win the fight.
I don't exactly get excited when Wladimir is in the ring but he's still an excellent fighter and tough to beat and his style is as valid as any other, as long as it works for him.
is there any "best" of the heavyweight division at this point? You act like the Ring Rankings at heavyweight mean anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
And Floyd imposes his will on people he is bigger that or feels he can. Ask Phillip Ndou DeMarcus Corely and Arturo Gatti how passive Mayweather is and Mayweather isn't a one shot KO guy either. Roy Jones Jr imposed his will differently on the fighter he had greater advantages over. And Roy was a small light heavyweight and Hopkins was a come forward fighter early in his career and then he was a boxer puncher later on, watch his fight with Antawn Echols the rematch where he dislocated his arm. Hopkins style only became defensive when he was hitting the ages of 38, 39, 40 which is understandable.
You cannot compare them to Wladimer. Neither of them were 6'6 and have a near 10 inch reach advantage over everyone else they fought. Hopkins was rarely taller of "bigger" then anyone he fought and the same goes for Roy Jones and Floyd Mayweather.
Wladimer outweights everyone he fights by almost 30 pounds average has over 4 inches in height on them and has almost a 10 inch reach advantage on them.
He has no excuse.
And donm't bash Roy for not fighting the best in his division and then say what WLad does means anymore. Basically the Heavyweight division isn't about fighting the best its about fighting who is the most popular. When everyone in the division is 6'1 or 6'3 and 220 pounds and you are 6'6 and 250 pounds is it really fighting the best? Like I said, Wladimer is the best at heavyweight but that doesn't mean anything at this point he has no one to challenge him because of his height, weight and physical gifts. He is a big fish in a small pond. Nothing more, nothing less. Roy and Floyd both moved up in divisions to win their titles and get their achievements, they didn't sit still at one weight class and give performances of jabs for 12 rounds just because they could. If Roy wanted to do that he'd have just stayed his whole career at middle or super middleweight and Floyd would have stayed at super featherweight.
Wiadimer has no excuse for his sub par performances. Tell me one thing he has to be worried about? He has youth on his side. Speed on his side. Power on his side. Height on his side. Reach on his side. Why is he fighting passively?
Why does he need an excuse though? He's the universally recognised heavyweight champion of the world, he makes millions and has a massive massive fanbase in Europe, Germany and the Ukraine especially.Quote:
Originally Posted by Majestyis there any "best" of the heavyweight division at this point? You act like the Ring Rankings at heavyweight mean anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
And Floyd imposes his will on people he is bigger that or feels he can. Ask Phillip Ndou DeMarcus Corely and Arturo Gatti how passive Mayweather is and Mayweather isn't a one shot KO guy either. Roy Jones Jr imposed his will differently on the fighter he had greater advantages over. And Roy was a small light heavyweight and Hopkins was a come forward fighter early in his career and then he was a boxer puncher later on, watch his fight with Antawn Echols the rematch where he dislocated his arm. Hopkins style only became defensive when he was hitting the ages of 38, 39, 40 which is understandable.
You cannot compare them to Wladimer. Neither of them were 6'6 and have a near 10 inch reach advantage over everyone else they fought. Hopkins was rarely taller of "bigger" then anyone he fought and the same goes for Roy Jones and Floyd Mayweather.
Wladimer outweights everyone he fights by almost 30 pounds average has over 4 inches in height on them and has almost a 10 inch reach advantage on them.
He has no excuse.
And donm't bash Roy for not fighting the best in his division and then say what WLad does means anymore. Basically the Heavyweight division isn't about fighting the best its about fighting who is the most popular. When everyone in the division is 6'1 or 6'3 and 220 pounds and you are 6'6 and 250 pounds is it really fighting the best? Like I said, Wladimer is the best at heavyweight but that doesn't mean anything at this point he has no one to challenge him because of his height, weight and physical gifts. He is a big fish in a small pond. Nothing more, nothing less. Roy and Floyd both moved up in divisions to win their titles and get their achievements, they didn't sit still at one weight class and give performances of jabs for 12 rounds just because they could. If Roy wanted to do that he'd have just stayed his whole career at middle or super middleweight and Floyd would have stayed at super featherweight.
Wiadimer has no excuse for his sub par performances. Tell me one thing he has to be worried about? He has youth on his side. Speed on his side. Power on his side. Height on his side. Reach on his side. Why is he fighting passively?
As long as he keeps winning, doesn't get hurt and keeps his health what more does he want?
The onus isn't on him to change its on his opposition to work out an effective gameplan and beat him.
Why moan at Wlad for winning, and not Chagaev, Rahman, Thompson, Ibragimov, Austin etc for not offering him any challenge?