Ruben 'Hurricane' Carter

Anyone have any opinions about this guy? There's a lot of information about this on the net. There's a lot of people who think he did it, despite what Bob Dylan, who really played fast and loose with the facts, and others have said. And these people ain't all racists. Myself, any kind of research I have done on the subject has only, if anything, increased my belief that he might actually have done it, although I really can't say for sure of course. But I don't think it's really all that obvious that he was framed.

Eh....it's not going to be the first time or the last time something like that happens.

I really don't have an opinion on him one way or the other. Nice touch though with the "not all of them are racists" ...it's sad that has to be a qualifier, just because someone sees something different than the politically correct way it's not always because of racism, ignorance, or bigotry. Interesting topic too

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyle

Eh....it's not going to be the first time or the last time something like that happens.

I really don't have an opinion on him one way or the other. Nice touch though with the "not all of them are racists" ...it's sad that has to be a qualifier, just because someone sees something different than the politically correct way it's not always because of racism, ignorance, or bigotry. Interesting topic too

---

For the longest time, I just took it for granted that he was railroaded, but when I actually looked into things and listened to both sides of the story, I started to have my doubts. I ain't saying he did it, but it's possible.

As for the racism part, well that seems to be a central theme to the whole sorry saga. That what happened to Carter would not have happened to a white man. Or he was convicted by an all white jury cause he was black. That may be true, these things have happened, but it ain't so obvious in this case. I know when I tried to question his innocence in another forum, I was flat out called a racist. :rolleyes:

Yes he did the whole film was a lie, even the racist cop didn't even exist.

Rubin "Hurricane" Carter: The Other Side of the Story

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CGM

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyle

Eh....it's not going to be the first time or the last time something like that happens.

I really don't have an opinion on him one way or the other. Nice touch though with the "not all of them are racists" ...it's sad that has to be a qualifier, just because someone sees something different than the politically correct way it's not always because of racism, ignorance, or bigotry. Interesting topic too

---

For the longest time, I just took it for granted that he was railroaded, but when I actually looked into things and listened to both sides of the story, I started to have my doubts. I ain't saying he did it, but it's possible.

As for the racism part, well that seems to be a central theme to the whole sorry saga. That what happened to Carter would not have happened to a white man. Or he was convicted by an all white jury cause he was black. That may be true, these things have happened, but it ain't so obvious in this case. I know when I tried to question his innocence in another forum, I was flat out called a racist. :rolleyes:

---

Well, that's just stupid, I'm half-black, but it's clear that there's more to the case than portrayed in the film, so anyone calling you a racist is just a straight up retard. However, I've read the site ICB posted before, & it does strike me as one of those sites that does try to push an agenda a bit. I'm not saying there's no way he did it, however, his prior history with the police as a child didn't help him, & to say that there wasn't heavy racism within the police forces (as that site suggests) is just foolish. The proof used to convict him was not particularly solid and the police should have done more to ensure that if he was guilty they didn't try and find an 'easy' way of getting him convicted because if he was innocent there was a gross miscarriage of justice and if he was guilty their laziness & unprofessionalism allowed a killer to go free

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JazMerkin

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CGM

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyle

Eh....it's not going to be the first time or the last time something like that happens.

I really don't have an opinion on him one way or the other. Nice touch though with the "not all of them are racists" ...it's sad that has to be a qualifier, just because someone sees something different than the politically correct way it's not always because of racism, ignorance, or bigotry. Interesting topic too

---

For the longest time, I just took it for granted that he was railroaded, but when I actually looked into things and listened to both sides of the story, I started to have my doubts. I ain't saying he did it, but it's possible.

As for the racism part, well that seems to be a central theme to the whole sorry saga. That what happened to Carter would not have happened to a white man. Or he was convicted by an all white jury cause he was black. That may be true, these things have happened, but it ain't so obvious in this case. I know when I tried to question his innocence in another forum, I was flat out called a racist. :rolleyes:

---

Well, that's just stupid, I'm half-black, but it's clear that there's more to the case than portrayed in the film, so anyone calling you a racist is just a straight up retard. However, I've read the site ICB posted before, & it does strike me as one of those sites that does try to push an agenda a bit. I'm not saying there's no way he did it, however, his prior history with the police as a child didn't help him, & to say that there wasn't heavy racism within the police forces (as that site suggests) is just foolish. The proof used to convict him was not particularly solid and the police should have done more to ensure that if he was guilty they didn't try and find an 'easy' way of getting him convicted because if he was innocent there was a gross miscarriage of justice and if he was guilty their laziness & unprofessionalism allowed a killer to go free

---

I can live with most of what you say. Yeah, I read ICB's link a while back and they seemed maybe a little biased, but they made some good points, and it got me interested in looking at other sites. There are a few Law School websites that take a critical look at this case, and the Simpson case also, which kind of shows a flip side of the coin.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CGM

I know when I tried to question his innocence in another forum, I was flat out called a racist. :rolleyes:

---

That's no fun...I get called racist for nonracist remarks....I got called racist for saying Manny Ramirez smoked pot. Fucking ridiculous....some people just shut down their brains when some different idea comes along and it's very good to debate such issues and try to find the actual facts. Look at when I said "The Civil War wasn't about slavery" everyone got all up in arms about it.

I haven't researched any of the actual case with Ruben so I can't really comment but I am interested in what actually went on as opposed to what happened in the movie

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyle

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CGM

I know when I tried to question his innocence in another forum, I was flat out called a racist. :rolleyes:

---

That's no fun...I get called racist for nonracist remarks....I got called racist for saying Manny Ramirez smoked pot. Fucking ridiculous....some people just shut down their brains when some different idea comes along and it's very good to debate such issues and try to find the actual facts. Look at when I said "The Civil War wasn't about slavery" everyone got all up in arms about it.

I haven't researched any of the actual case with Ruben so I can't really comment but I am interested in what actually went on as opposed to what happened in the movie

---

I hear you. I don't really have a problem with someone calling the jurors, or the cops racist, That may or may not be true. But I do have an issue with people calling my opinions as an onlooker racists. My usual response to being called a racist in situations like this, and the Simpson case, is, "ok dude, I'll admit to saying he's guilty cause he's black/white/green if you admit to saying he's innocent cause he's black/white/green".

Everyone posting in this thread is a racist.

I have to admit, I don't really know much about Carter outside of the Dylan song. I saw bits of the movie, but I never bothered to watch the whole thing. It was certainly a racially charged period of time.

There was a great thread on this subject just prior to his release and another just prior to the film. Ron Lipton the ex Detective and ex New york boxing ref
(one of the best, maybe the best ref ) had alot to say on the matter over at Cyber boxing. He is worth chatting to over it as he (as a detective) backed up Ruben and went onside with him to his own detriment. They have sparred together in the old days and you get to hear if he could of been a champ or not. These days in hindsight and how he got treated by Ruben, Ron thinks he was used up and thinks Ruben was more than likely guilty.

I remember seeing a special on A&E by Bill Kurtis called The wrong man dealing with Carter and others convictions.Interesting stuff on how the movement came about from the Canadian students after Lesra Martin contacted Carter in prison.Carter said he had given up.

I think alot of the mass media attention may have backfired in the original trial.He had become his own celebraty with Ali making it his own cause in the public showings.It seemed tried as much in the media glare as it was in the courtroom and put the prosecution on an even more vigorous offensive push to re convict him.....and Carter was not one to hold his tongue at all.It was a different time over here,racial tensions were brimming.No doubt alot of 'dirty' stuff went down.Alot of which we'll never know about.Have not seen the Movie but have heard that they really made him out to be a superstar in the ring.Have to love Hollywood.

I love the film,wether its partly true or false.Its a great watch!Im thinking of buying his autobiography book.I was going to buy it a few years ago but forgot too.I'll have to pre oder it though.Has anyone read it yet??

Here is the trailer of the film and a footage of the man himself in the ring....Nice!;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-S-ng23OXg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsmszHWnO3k

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by yvonne

I love the film,wether its partly true or false.Its a great watch!Im thinking of buying his autobiography book.I was going to buy it a few years ago but forgot too.I'll have to pre oder it though.Has anyone read it yet??

---

I read his book years ago, very raw and gritty. Lots of four letter words. It's a worthwhile read. He comes across as a very tough and badass man

I've read a lot on it, he was more likely guilty from what I've seen and the guy was far from being an angel; he was prosecuted for crime and armed robbery a few time prior to "THE" case. Also, he was rated as on his decline by the Ring Magazine at the time, falling drastically after losing most of his last matches.

MEdias propaganda + an excellent song from a known author = damn effective.