My Random Cotto vs Pacquiao ranting
-Does anyone plan on going to this? I think I'm going to try to get tickets for this one.
-I love all the people who thinks this fight is going to be one-sided. Do people not know that both guys are absolute warriors!? I think people's preferences, hate towards another fighter, or fanboyism just gets in the way of practical thinking. Both fighters can get hit and still come at you, both have different gears and can adapt. One fighter is naturally faster, the other has great timing. Both men bring so much to the table yet people still insult the other.
-There was a post in another thread by MAJESTY talking about if Pac beats Cotto will people stop trying to make excuses and just accept the loss and vice-versa. I'm positive that no matter who Pac beats, there will always be an excuse or a way to discredit a win. It's just the way it is.
First Barrera win, Barrera was distracted. Second Barrera win, Barrera was shot even though he put up a HELL of a showing against Marquez the fight before. First Morales win, he was weight drained. Second Morales win he was shot even though he beat David Diaz in his next fight moving up in weight (I thought Erik won). When he beats Marquez, Marquez was robbed or Pac was given a gift. C'MON! That was a sick and a CLOSE fight. It could've gone either way. To call it a "robbery" is just ignorance IMO.
Diaz, well there's no point in discussing this, he wasn't much of a champion but Pac did to him what was expected. De La Hoya was shot/weight drained, I understand that. Pac was supposed to win in that scenario, but he shut him out! De La Hoya didn't just lose, he was destroyed. But pre-fight, Manny was supposed to get massacred but people still find away to call him a "chicken?!"
Don't get me started on Hatton! That was his weight class and he was undefeated at it. Pac took him out in 2 rounds and people say his punch resistance is gone, Ricky this, Ricky that.
-I think people are looking way too much into Cotto's mentality! Cotto's cut was BAAAAD against Clottey. He fought through that when most others would try to get the fight stopped. Not only did he fight through it, but he fought tough. If that's not showing heart and/or mental toughness, I don't know what is!
Yea Cotto backed up and became very cautious after the cut, but seriously, that's just being smart! If you were cut that bad and just kept attacking leaving yourself open for counters then you are flirting with a stoppage loss. Cotto fought defensive but he also attacked when he had openings. Either way, what I'm trying to get at is Cotto's head is fine!
-Cotto and Pacquiao have fought the cream of the crop when it comes to their resumes and have beaten them as well. They are both P4P the best in the world and I think people's negativity towards this fight in any way is deflating some of the excitement for me. Cotto is trying to prove he's still elite after his loss to Margarito by fighting the best fighter in the world today. Pacquiao has a HUGE potential MEGAFIGHT with Floyd but instead of taking a tune-up, he's fighting Miguel Cotto!!
We, as a collective boxing community, should just talk about the excitement this fight can bring. Both men give us what we want to see and do it each time out. It's hard for me to see how anyone could complain about either fighter.
Sorry for the rant but I just feel a little on edge today...
Re: My Random Cotto vs Pacquiao ranting
I forgot to add:
I don't care if people make predictions or analyze the match-up but it's when people start to discredit the other for the sake of arguing that gets to me.
Re: My Random Cotto vs Pacquiao ranting
Rant on C-Lo, rant on. Everyone else does it; and I can't think of a member who does it less than you.
I just want to see the fight. I'd rather see it and listen to all the bs afterwards than to not have been able to see it come off.
I think Pac wins by decision; either way win or lose for either I give props to both. Though I will say Cotto has more pressure on him to win because imo he's supposed to win, being bigger and stronger naturally. I will be rooting for Cotto but I will not be upset if Pac wins; it will be historic and he'll have earned it.
I'm just getting tired of all the talk; make it or don't make it so the people who support them and help make them all that $$$, the fans, don't become despondent and bored with the bullsh#t.
Re: My Random Cotto vs Pacquiao ranting
i only see really two excuses that could surface..
1.) if for some reason pac ran the whole fight (being the faster guy) and pot shotted to a points decision without doing much damage to cotto..
this obviously won't happen.
2.) if pac completely destroys cotto within 3 - 6 rounds, people will say cotto was damaged goods after the margarito loss and close clottey decision.
besides those i don't see how this fight will not be entertaining and therefore a hell of a fight..
i will say this though, it took margarito (with loaded gloves) 10 or so rounds to knock cotto out.. if pac does it in less it will be impressive.
Re: My Random Cotto vs Pacquiao ranting
That is why I am for PAC getting a 7th division world title. They can hate all they want but that record will stand for a long time unless we get a fighter starting at welter and end his career as the heavyweight champion of the world:o
Re: My Random Cotto vs Pacquiao ranting
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RP33
i only see really two excuses that could surface..
1.) if for some reason pac ran the whole fight (being the faster guy) and pot shotted to a points decision without doing much damage to cotto..
this obviously won't happen.
2.) if pac completely destroys cotto within 3 - 6 rounds, people will say cotto was damaged goods after the margarito loss and close clottey decision.
besides those i don't see how this fight will not be entertaining and therefore a hell of a fight..
i will say this though, it took margarito (with loaded gloves) 10 or so rounds to knock cotto out.. if pac does it in less it will be impressive.
Manny potshotted and ran from OScar, and he was still very effective offensively, I don't think Manny going backwards is necessarily a good thing for Cotto because Manny would be a lot better off staying out of Cotto's range than he would be trying to match Cotto on the inside, if he stays away Cotto won't land much, but if he tries to fight Cotto at range, an accurate guy with fast hands like Cotto will hit him at will. Miguel has pin point accuracy, and more than enough power to stop Manny if Manny fights the wrong fight, but PAcquiao hasn't been doign that lately, if Manny fights like he did against Hatton and Oscar, I just can't see Cotto catching him.
Re: My Random Cotto vs Pacquiao ranting
Quote:
Originally Posted by
C-Lo
-Does anyone plan on going to this? I think I'm going to try to get tickets for this one.
.
sounds like you have a lot of pacman haters to deal with eh.
Re: My Random Cotto vs Pacquiao ranting
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RP33
i only see really two excuses that could surface..
1.) if for some reason pac ran the whole fight (being the faster guy) and pot shotted to a points decision without doing much damage to cotto..
this obviously won't happen.
2.) if pac completely destroys cotto within 3 - 6 rounds, people will say cotto was damaged goods after the margarito loss and close clottey decision.
besides those i don't see how this fight will not be entertaining and therefore a hell of a fight..
i will say this though, it took margarito (with loaded gloves) 10 or so rounds to knock cotto out.. if pac does it in less it will be impressive.
Manny potshotted and ran from OScar, and he was still very effective offensively, I don't think Manny going backwards is necessarily a good thing for Cotto because Manny would be a lot better off staying out of Cotto's range than he would be trying to match Cotto on the inside, if he stays away Cotto won't land much, but if he tries to fight Cotto at range, an accurate guy with fast hands like Cotto will hit him at will. Miguel has pin point accuracy, and more than enough power to stop Manny if Manny fights the wrong fight, but PAcquiao hasn't been doign that lately, if Manny fights like he did against Hatton and Oscar, I just can't see Cotto catching him.
First off, C-Lo's rant was a very detailed analysis instead of a rant. A job well done. From what I've seen, Cotto is at his best when he is the bigger man and when he is coming forward. He knows how to cut off the ring, has the great jab to neutralize Manny's offense, and he does his best body work when he fights in this manner. Cotto's seek and destroy is deadly, especially when he takes his time and plots his way in. Cotto has trouble when the opponent is a bit bigger, as strong, and can take a punch. Cotto is not as effective going backward, but still pretty good (against Mosley in the last four rounds, he stayed out of trouble and counter-punched beautifully. Same against Clottey and with one eye. Against Margarito, well, we know what happened or maybe happened there). I give credit to Manny who does a good job staying off the ropes and punching from crazy angles and moving after throwing punches. But I think Cotto can definitely catch Manny. I have no doubt he can wear Manny down.
Re: My Random Cotto vs Pacquiao ranting
I really don't understand why people who wish to be considered serious 'boxing analyst" would permit their cultural, national, or ethno prejudices influence the logical way of perceiving the obvious. I hear so many people whine about how, "oh, this boxer ran so damn much;" "oh,that boxer sucks now because he didn't throw as many combinations as he did last time;" or "oh, this boxer doesn't want to get inside because he knows he might get killed;" or "oh, that boxers thinks he the shit, therefore, I'm going for the other guy;" or "ah, that boxer isn't like Mike Tyson." Look, if you want to see amateur 'boxers' fight then I suggest you head to youtube and search for 'kimbo slice' or 'UFC', or keep ESPN classics on favorites (boxing), they have plenty. When you turn on the T.V and switch to 'ppv big fights', or 'hbo fights', you're going to see 'Professional' boxers at work, and the makeup of a professional boxer is to use his/her 'head' in order to win a fight. That doesn't mean they 'suck', on the contrary, it means they're smart, good, and it's one of the main reasons why they've made it where they're at today. It's called being 'technical', if you'd like to use 4-5 letter word semantics to influences others to seeing your way, then by all means do, but whatever you do, never make a bet or think you'll be correct when trying to predict any fight, or even think others will take you serious.
Pacman is a right handed southpaw with a serious left; his speed is up with floyds, his power is irrefutable, and his aggression is unmatched in his weight division. I don't see who'd argue with that, much less prove it to be wrong; someone like an Erik morales, to me, is the boxer for manny at this point. Cotto, lets face it, is to me not going to last very long. Cotto has major aggression, yes, he does have speed, but he lack defense technique and I think you'll have to see it in every bout he's had. Cotto, I'd argue, would be a decent contender to manny, but not an equivalent. A Timothy Bradley would be a considerable opponent for pacman I think, Timothy has it all, plus a flawless record--not that that means much-- to which pacman can get a bit jealous of.
Re: My Random Cotto vs Pacquiao ranting
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rican
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RP33
i only see really two excuses that could surface..
1.) if for some reason pac ran the whole fight (being the faster guy) and pot shotted to a points decision without doing much damage to cotto..
this obviously won't happen.
2.) if pac completely destroys cotto within 3 - 6 rounds, people will say cotto was damaged goods after the margarito loss and close clottey decision.
besides those i don't see how this fight will not be entertaining and therefore a hell of a fight..
i will say this though, it took margarito (with loaded gloves) 10 or so rounds to knock cotto out.. if pac does it in less it will be impressive.
Manny potshotted and ran from OScar, and he was still very effective offensively, I don't think Manny going backwards is necessarily a good thing for Cotto because Manny would be a lot better off staying out of Cotto's range than he would be trying to match Cotto on the inside, if he stays away Cotto won't land much, but if he tries to fight Cotto at range, an accurate guy with fast hands like Cotto will hit him at will. Miguel has pin point accuracy, and more than enough power to stop Manny if Manny fights the wrong fight, but PAcquiao hasn't been doign that lately, if Manny fights like he did against Hatton and Oscar, I just can't see Cotto catching him.
First off, C-Lo's rant was a very detailed analysis instead of a rant. A job well done. From what I've seen, Cotto is at his best when he is the bigger man and when he is coming forward. He knows how to cut off the ring, has the great jab to neutralize Manny's offense, and he does his best body work when he fights in this manner. Cotto's seek and destroy is deadly, especially when he takes his time and plots his way in. Cotto has trouble when the opponent is a bit bigger, as strong, and can take a punch. Cotto is not as effective going backward, but still pretty good (against Mosley in the last four rounds, he stayed out of trouble and counter-punched beautifully. Same against Clottey and with one eye. Against Margarito, well, we know what happened or maybe happened there). I give credit to Manny who does a good job staying off the ropes and punching from crazy angles and moving after throwing punches. But I think Cotto can definitely catch Manny. I have no doubt he can wear Manny down.
I think Cotto would do best by keeping Pacquiao feet planted, keep him in the middle of the ring and try to fight wiht as little movement as possible. Miguel does cut off the ring, but so does Hatton, and Hatton has quicker feet. Also a jab is very hard to work effectively against a southpaw, sure it worked against Judah, but Judah keeps his right hand down and he doesn't move either his feet or his upper body consistently. There is a difference between maintaining a large range, and being a good defensive fighter, but in this case maintaining that range will make it impossible for Cotto to be effective.
Re: My Random Cotto vs Pacquiao ranting
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rican
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
Manny potshotted and ran from OScar, and he was still very effective offensively, I don't think Manny going backwards is necessarily a good thing for Cotto because Manny would be a lot better off staying out of Cotto's range than he would be trying to match Cotto on the inside, if he stays away Cotto won't land much, but if he tries to fight Cotto at range, an accurate guy with fast hands like Cotto will hit him at will. Miguel has pin point accuracy, and more than enough power to stop Manny if Manny fights the wrong fight, but PAcquiao hasn't been doign that lately, if Manny fights like he did against Hatton and Oscar, I just can't see Cotto catching him.
First off, C-Lo's rant was a very detailed analysis instead of a rant. A job well done. From what I've seen, Cotto is at his best when he is the bigger man and when he is coming forward. He knows how to cut off the ring, has the great jab to neutralize Manny's offense, and he does his best body work when he fights in this manner. Cotto's seek and destroy is deadly, especially when he takes his time and plots his way in. Cotto has trouble when the opponent is a bit bigger, as strong, and can take a punch. Cotto is not as effective going backward, but still pretty good (against Mosley in the last four rounds, he stayed out of trouble and counter-punched beautifully. Same against Clottey and with one eye. Against Margarito, well, we know what happened or maybe happened there). I give credit to Manny who does a good job staying off the ropes and punching from crazy angles and moving after throwing punches. But I think Cotto can definitely catch Manny. I have no doubt he can wear Manny down.
I think Cotto would do best by keeping Pacquiao feet planted, keep him in the middle of the ring and try to fight wiht as little movement as possible. Miguel does cut off the ring, but so does Hatton, and Hatton has quicker feet. Also a jab is very hard to work effectively against a southpaw, sure it worked against Judah, but Judah keeps his right hand down and he doesn't move either his feet or his upper body consistently. There is a difference between maintaining a large range, and being a good defensive fighter, but in this case maintaining that range will make it impossible for Cotto to be effective.
Hatton does have quicker feet than Cotto but when Cotto gets you on the ropes/corner, he keeps you there.
Re: My Random Cotto vs Pacquiao ranting
Quote:
Originally Posted by
C-Lo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taeth
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rican
First off, C-Lo's rant was a very detailed analysis instead of a rant. A job well done. From what I've seen, Cotto is at his best when he is the bigger man and when he is coming forward. He knows how to cut off the ring, has the great jab to neutralize Manny's offense, and he does his best body work when he fights in this manner. Cotto's seek and destroy is deadly, especially when he takes his time and plots his way in. Cotto has trouble when the opponent is a bit bigger, as strong, and can take a punch. Cotto is not as effective going backward, but still pretty good (against Mosley in the last four rounds, he stayed out of trouble and counter-punched beautifully. Same against Clottey and with one eye. Against Margarito, well, we know what happened or maybe happened there). I give credit to Manny who does a good job staying off the ropes and punching from crazy angles and moving after throwing punches. But I think Cotto can definitely catch Manny. I have no doubt he can wear Manny down.
I think Cotto would do best by keeping Pacquiao feet planted, keep him in the middle of the ring and try to fight wiht as little movement as possible. Miguel does cut off the ring, but so does Hatton, and Hatton has quicker feet. Also a jab is very hard to work effectively against a southpaw, sure it worked against Judah, but Judah keeps his right hand down and he doesn't move either his feet or his upper body consistently. There is a difference between maintaining a large range, and being a good defensive fighter, but in this case maintaining that range will make it impossible for Cotto to be effective.
Hatton does have quicker feet than Cotto but when Cotto gets you on the ropes/corner, he keeps you there.
My response to how I feel about PAC's fights and then I'm going to try to not post anymore until something new comes up.
Barrera I - he beat Barrera fair and square it was a very good win
Barrera II - Barrera fought more timidly than I've ever seen him fight before, he just wanted to go the distance I think. I've never seen Barrera respect another persons power like that. Another good win for PAC
Diaz - Pac got his win in another division and did what he was supposed to do, but in the future with all the talent at lightweight people will definately consider this a cherry picking moment.
ODLH - Oscar was drained, but already weighing at 147 a week before the fight. Oscar was a corpse in the ring, but that was his own fault, he's the one that chose an experimental crash diet before the fight. PAC pushed Oscar into retirement, the weight drained thing is legit, although PAC would have won anyway.
Hatton - Awesome win over the best man in the division, absolutey dominant with a killer KO
So I am mixed about his wins, all of his wins are good. Both of his Marquez fights could have gone either way, although I had scored both for Marquez there were plenty enough swing rounds in both fights.
As far as legacy goes, picking the weakest title holder at Lightweight and draining ODLH are really the only things worth griping about. He has had a brilliant career and the fact that there is so little to complain about really says something. He is never in a dull fight and is a perfect gentleman with a badass moustache. That covers the past pretty much.
As for Cotto, I disagree with wanting to let Pac plant his feet that would be a bad idea for someone that already has a significant hand speed advantage. Cotto needs to be the boxer and fight backing up (which he does very well). If Cotto tries to trade, PAC will slip out to the sides and light him up all night. For me, I want to see the same gameplan Cotto used against Margarito. For PAC I want to see him trying to spin out Cotto using that great lateral movement he has. I'm sure most of you will disagree with me, but that's my whole opinion on this and I'm sticking to it.
PAC 10th round TKO
Have fun at the fight C-Lo, wear a Saddoboxing t-shirt!!
