a preposterous tip from a beginner :p
Hi, I'm new here it's my first post, I have been reading this forum with great interest during my work experience :). First of all sorry for my english, I'm french but i hope i can make myself clear.
so here's the thing, i usually like to land a flurry of shots for an extended amount of time, the thing is i eventually run out of gas and switch to defense but then it's the opponent's turn and he's more succesful since I'm too tired. So what i do know is back off before the exhaustion point, but pretending to be really tired, finishing with two soft blows, the last one a jab i don't retract just to be at a safe distance. The opponent is just to eager to take his shot, I walk back, he walks in and that's when i try to land a left hook or a uppercut (rather something in between the two because of the diagonal motion of the hit, how do you call that?) I guess when the opponent is stepping forward you could surprise him with a leaping left hook, but I'm not there yet ^^. This allows me to land a rather powerful hit, plus it really disrupts him and he won't try to take advantage of the situation until i get my breath back.
other than that, though i have seen post of it, some from chris, do you have vids of the dempsey roll? I can barely see it from the footage of the dempsey willard fight given the mediocre quality of the recording. I watched already some tyson fights in his early years but except for one fight (where he is doing a U and not the 8 movement so not the dempsey roll i guess) i never saw it :(. The only thing i can relate to is makounochi Ippo's dempsey roll, lol i sure love this anime but I'd like to see the real thing. I know it would take an awfuly long time to master since I'm a beginner I have other things to worry about but still...so classy :p for now i try to stick with the shoulder roll which is already not obvious
Re: a preposterous tip from a beginner :p
Playing possum, I've heard of those kind of tactics before. If your opponent gets eager and rushes at you it's easier to walk them into counterpunches. I think it's a good idea to learn different ways how you reel them in, and then precede to set them up. It's a fascinating subject in boxing, as this plays a big part in countering. If you can make them come to you and set them up, you'll get in sync with what the clever old-timers sought. :) This lends itself well to drawing particular punches, which is an important aspect of counter punching. See what they are going for, give them an opening for that specific punch, make them miss and good luck. ;D
Anyways what Dempsey was doing was completely different than the cartoon character Ippo. The Hajime No Ippo cartoon is entertaining, but it's not true to actual boxing, this includes most of its references to different boxing techniques and styles.
I think what could be more similar to what referring to is the "Dempsey Triples", or just triples. This was bobbing and weaving deliberately to avoid your opponents straight punches, starting with your opponent's jab and responding with sharp counters. For details, read grey's post below:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
greynotsoold
Something to point out and, hopefully, to be noted: bobbing and weaving is not a haphazard hit or miss endeavor. Rather it is something done deliberately and knowingly, with a definite purpose (ie, a specific punch) in mind. For example, the famous Dempsey Triples.
The first began by slipping inside an opponent's left jab and landing a straight right to the heart, then shifting the weight to the right leg (while stepping right and slightly forward with the right foot) to "bob" back under the left (while Dempsey hooked his left to the foe's body), thereby "weaving" to the outside position, shifting the weight to the right foot and throwing a right hook to the jaw.
The second was based off a slip to the outside of an opponent's left lead, dropping the weight to the rt foot and and hooking the left to the body, then stepping to the left with the left foot shifting weight to the left leg and , while "bobbing" back under his foe's left (and hooking the right to the heart), Dempsey would "weave" to the inside position and throw a left hook to the chin.
Point I'm trying to make is that you don't just "bob and weave". It is a series of planned motions for a specific purpose- avoiding his lead by slipping or ducking, then bobbing back under it and weaving your way to a more favorable position from which to land a punch. It is not something you do at random hoping he'll miss you and there is no point in being so low as to be unable to punch, no more than it makes sense to have your feet parallel or shoulders square while doing the "bob and weave". Also when weaving to the inside it often makes sense, depending on your plan (once you get there) to place a left glove over his right glove. So he can't hit you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
greynotsoold
Jack Dempsey made these famous in the 20s, and both are based off of slipping the opponent"s jab.
The first is the "inside triple": to begin slip inside the opponent's jab (so it goes over your right shoulder; put weight on left leg , swing right side forward exactly like throwing a right)with a straight right to the heart. Step sideways with your right foot, bringing it up even with the left; at the same time shift the weight over the right leg :this step gives you more power, and if you stay low shifting the weight to right leg will carry you under the left lead and outside of it as you hook to the solar plexus. The body is then straightened , weight shifted to the left leg and cross the right to the opponents chin. The action here has to be fast and continuous, so I would suggest starting slow and feeling the weight shifts because once you find those its easy.
"Outside Triple"; begin by slipping outside his jab and hooking the left to the stomach ( the way to slip outside is to throw a left hook-this one happens to be a touch wide and to the belly.) Weight should be on the right leg so step in and to the left with the left foot, the weight transfer carrying your body under the lead as you hook the right to the heart. From here straighten the body lifting the left (which should've been carried high to protect you head from his right) (don't need to draw it back or swing your arm , just wght to rght leg torque hips) to his chin. Again the movement must be fast and don't forget to practice getting out after you punch- don't just walk or stop or you'll do it in real.
Or...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
greynotsoold
The Dempsey Roll: this is basically ducking- or, rolling- under an opponent's left hook and coming back with your own left hook. As he hooks shift your weight to your left leg, stepping slightly left and forward with the left foot, lean over the left leg to get under his punch, rolling your upper body to the right and under his punch as you shift the weight back to the right leg. Staighten up and hook to his head.
The "flicker" jab.....Watch the recent Toney/Peter fight. Toney landed that punch all night long, consistently snapping back his rival's head.
If you're interested in Dempsey's style, Thomas has some good posts on him. Take a look here: http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...psey-roll.html
If I were you, I'd start with learning how to slip the jab, and countering it. Read grey's posts again. It's not smart to just wag your head back and forth.
Re: a preposterous tip from a beginner :p
thank you chris, it was my understanding that the cartoon version http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7Vh8tVPjHk was way unrealistic, twisting the torso so much to get full leverage, with a pattern so predictable it would be useless aginst modern boxers more prone to countering (correct me if i'm wrong). But indeed i saw the triples you're talknig about in the willard dempsey fight, we can see dempsey hammering the champion and taking a step forward for each hit, though it looks a bit awkward given the footage fluidity. But for now yeah i try get better at slipping, for now it seems i twist my neck and my body a bit too much so that i don't go back in a neutral position nquick enough. but at the same time this "overdoing" makes it easier for me if i want to switch to offense with a shoulder roll (truth be told i have long ways to go lol), but i need to work my head movement and find the "right zone". I saw some vids of david haye, i think he has incredibly quick head and upper body movements(especially when springing back actually), do you have in mind some other boxer's name i should watch videos of to get better at this art?
Re: a preposterous tip from a beginner :p
There a lot of good posts on head movement, try the search feature, or you find a bunch by browsing the important posts section. You don't want to be moving your head back and forth the whole time. This can really take your attention off of your opponent causing you to get hit with punches that you shouldn't be getting hit with otherwise. It's nice to stay loose, but you don't want to moving so much that you're preoccupied with it. Learn to move your head at the right time to make your opponent miss.
Anyways one fighter that stands out when it comes to slipping punches is Julio Cesar Chavez. He also very hard to hit clean, a lot of his opponent's punches would just graze his head.
