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so much on using David Diaz as a name on Pacquiao's record, he was lucky to get a gift decision against a shot Morales and well apparently another gift decision against a shot Jesus Chavez
Diaz returns from layoff to edge Chavez - Boxing - Yahoo! Sports
Watched this earlier today. To be fair Diaz finished the stronger of the 2 fighters & had it been a 12 round fight I would have expected him to win, but Chavez to me just edged it 96-94, he just controlled too many of the early round. I can definitely see a 96-94 win for Diaz or a draw, but the 97-93 scorecard definitely smacks of a bit of hometown bias to me. But Diaz winning was no way a robbery, although a prime Chavez (not seen in about 7 or 8 years) would have had Diaz out of there early. Both guys need to retire
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
Move on man, stop the hating already! It has been a few years that have gone by, no use getting stuck with that garbage. I'm sure even the real El Teribble, Erik Morales, have already have moved on too. It does not reflect positively on you if these keeps on.
The news is about David diaz' triumphant return, why rain on his parade and drag other names to fuel whatever fires or agendas you want to flare?
I am happy for David Diaz. He is a Chicago man. Some acquaintances and friends, swear by how level-headed and an overall good guy the man really is! Focus on the negatives... one way or another, you'd surely lose out. Move on, Man!
triumphant return? he barely beat a shot fighter who was basically totally outclassed in his last fight against Katsidis and didn't listen to reason and retire, it was an extremely close fight as Jaz was saying and given the condition that Chavez is in now, that's not saying anything good for Diaz, he's garbage, and always has been garbage, any top 15 lightweight beats the shit out of him, how he is out of the ring has nothing to do with his abilities in the ring (which aren't many), it's brought up because while others are accused of cherry picking (Mayweather, Klitschko's, DLH, etc.), Pacquiao always is given an excuse (i say given cause it's usually not coming from him), 2 of his last 3 opponents have been cherry picked (a shot weight drained DLH, and the garbage that is David Diaz), and that's the point i'm making, now get off your high horse it has nothing to do with Morales, i don't bitch and make excuses for his losses, nor do i overhype wins, cause well lets face it, none of them need itQuote:
Originally Posted by KananKrusQuote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
Move on man, stop the hating already! It has been a few years that have gone by, no use getting stuck with that garbage. I'm sure even the real El Teribble, Erik Morales, have already have moved on too. It does not reflect positively on you if these keeps on.
The news is about David diaz' triumphant return, why rain on his parade and drag other names to fuel whatever fires or agendas you want to flare?
I am happy for David Diaz. He is a Chicago man. Some acquaintances and friends, swear by how level-headed and an overall good guy the man really is! Focus on the negatives... one way or another, you'd surely lose out. Move on, Man!
It was Oscar De La Hoya that cherry picked Manny, not the other way around. Larry Merchant proposed the fight to Oscar and Oscar loving a big pay day thought he could beat the former flyweight champion. Let's not bullshit about that. In fact Oscar has a habit of making guys jump up 2 weight classes to fight him, see Shane Mosley. And since you brought out the weight draining process, he did the same to Bernard Hopkins.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralestriumphant return? he barely beat a shot fighter who was basically totally outclassed in his last fight against Katsidis and didn't listen to reason and retire, it was an extremely close fight as Jaz was saying and given the condition that Chavez is in now, that's not saying anything good for Diaz, he's garbage, and always has been garbage, any top 15 lightweight beats the shit out of him, how he is out of the ring has nothing to do with his abilities in the ring (which aren't many), it's brought up because while others are accused of cherry picking (Mayweather, Klitschko's, DLH, etc.), Pacquiao always is given an excuse (i say given cause it's usually not coming from him), 2 of his last 3 opponents have been cherry picked (a shot weight drained DLH, and the garbage that is David Diaz), and that's the point i'm making, now get off your high horse it has nothing to do with Morales, i don't bitch and make excuses for his losses, nor do i overhype wins, cause well lets face it, none of them need itQuote:
Originally Posted by KananKrusQuote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
Move on man, stop the hating already! It has been a few years that have gone by, no use getting stuck with that garbage. I'm sure even the real El Teribble, Erik Morales, have already have moved on too. It does not reflect positively on you if these keeps on.
The news is about David diaz' triumphant return, why rain on his parade and drag other names to fuel whatever fires or agendas you want to flare?
I am happy for David Diaz. He is a Chicago man. Some acquaintances and friends, swear by how level-headed and an overall good guy the man really is! Focus on the negatives... one way or another, you'd surely lose out. Move on, Man!
So basically, as we learn new things about a fighter, we aren't allowed to objectivly look at what this means in terms of their crediblity just incase it might slightly undermine a fighter that you like?Quote:
Originally Posted by KananKrusQuote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
Move on man, stop the hating already! It has been a few years that have gone by, no use getting stuck with that garbage. I'm sure even the real El Teribble, Erik Morales, have already have moved on too. It does not reflect positively on you if these keeps on.
The news is about David diaz' triumphant return, why rain on his parade and drag other names to fuel whatever fires or agendas you want to flare?
I am happy for David Diaz. He is a Chicago man. Some acquaintances and friends, swear by how level-headed and an overall good guy the man really is! Focus on the negatives... one way or another, you'd surely lose out. Move on, Man!
Please... Hopkins walked around in shape close to 160 anyway... he had to lose something like 3 pounds? Oscar ended up coming down the best part of 10 pounds... so the two don't really compare for starters.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldogIt was Oscar De La Hoya that cherry picked Manny, not the other way around. Larry Merchant proposed the fight to Oscar and Oscar loving a big pay day thought he could beat the former flyweight champion. Let's not bullshit about that. In fact Oscar has a habit of making guys jump up 2 weight classes to fight him, see Shane Mosley. And since you brought out the weight draining process, he did the same to Bernard Hopkins.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralestriumphant return? he barely beat a shot fighter who was basically totally outclassed in his last fight against Katsidis and didn't listen to reason and retire, it was an extremely close fight as Jaz was saying and given the condition that Chavez is in now, that's not saying anything good for Diaz, he's garbage, and always has been garbage, any top 15 lightweight beats the shit out of him, how he is out of the ring has nothing to do with his abilities in the ring (which aren't many), it's brought up because while others are accused of cherry picking (Mayweather, Klitschko's, DLH, etc.), Pacquiao always is given an excuse (i say given cause it's usually not coming from him), 2 of his last 3 opponents have been cherry picked (a shot weight drained DLH, and the garbage that is David Diaz), and that's the point i'm making, now get off your high horse it has nothing to do with Morales, i don't bitch and make excuses for his losses, nor do i overhype wins, cause well lets face it, none of them need itQuote:
Originally Posted by KananKrus
But whether it was 10 pounds or 3 pounds doesn't really matter - just because one fighter did one thing it doesn't make it a get out of jail free card for another fighter to do the same thing and have no questions asked...
ODLH may have nudged pacman to fight, but it was roach who set a weight and took it knowing that ODLH probably wouldn't be able to cut down to it, if he thought oscar would have been a threat at 147 then he would have asked for the fight to take place at 144-143 or something (why do you think they were happy to take Oscar at 147 but not Mosely or Cotto?...)
DLH didn't make Hopkins go to Jr. Middle, nor did he take him on when he was shot or faded, cause up till today he's still not shot and one of the best 5 p4p fighters in the world, dude Roach himself says that DLH was a cherry picked opponentQuote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldogIt was Oscar De La Hoya that cherry picked Manny, not the other way around. Larry Merchant proposed the fight to Oscar and Oscar loving a big pay day thought he could beat the former flyweight champion. Let's not bullshit about that. In fact Oscar has a habit of making guys jump up 2 weight classes to fight him, see Shane Mosley. And since you brought out the weight draining process, he did the same to Bernard Hopkins.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralestriumphant return? he barely beat a shot fighter who was basically totally outclassed in his last fight against Katsidis and didn't listen to reason and retire, it was an extremely close fight as Jaz was saying and given the condition that Chavez is in now, that's not saying anything good for Diaz, he's garbage, and always has been garbage, any top 15 lightweight beats the shit out of him, how he is out of the ring has nothing to do with his abilities in the ring (which aren't many), it's brought up because while others are accused of cherry picking (Mayweather, Klitschko's, DLH, etc.), Pacquiao always is given an excuse (i say given cause it's usually not coming from him), 2 of his last 3 opponents have been cherry picked (a shot weight drained DLH, and the garbage that is David Diaz), and that's the point i'm making, now get off your high horse it has nothing to do with Morales, i don't bitch and make excuses for his losses, nor do i overhype wins, cause well lets face it, none of them need itQuote:
Originally Posted by KananKrus
Yeah, Roach is on record as saying that he knew ODLH would be physically shot at the weight and when he noticed the IVF scars at the weigh in this was confirmed to him as correct.
147 is the correct weight to fight, what you expect Pac to fight at 154? lolQuote:
Originally Posted by AdamGBPlease... Hopkins walked around in shape close to 160 anyway... he had to lose something like 3 pounds? Oscar ended up coming down the best part of 10 pounds... so the two don't really compare for starters.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldogIt was Oscar De La Hoya that cherry picked Manny, not the other way around. Larry Merchant proposed the fight to Oscar and Oscar loving a big pay day thought he could beat the former flyweight champion. Let's not bullshit about that. In fact Oscar has a habit of making guys jump up 2 weight classes to fight him, see Shane Mosley. And since you brought out the weight draining process, he did the same to Bernard Hopkins.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
But whether it was 10 pounds or 3 pounds doesn't really matter - just because one fighter did one thing it doesn't make it a get out of jail free card for another fighter to do the same thing and have no questions asked...
ODLH may have nudged pacman to fight, but it was roach who set a weight and took it knowing that ODLH probably wouldn't be able to cut down to it, if he thought oscar would have been a threat at 147 then he would have asked for the fight to take place at 144-143 or something (why do you think they were happy to take Oscar at 147 but not Mosely or Cotto?...)
Name me 1 time in boxing history where a guy jumps 3 weight classes? It hasn't happened. If you guys complained about catchweights then complained about all of them, don't pick and choose which one to b-itch about. And I've said before it was De La Hoya that called out Pac, in a proposed bout by Larry Merchant.
Who is picking and chosing? I never justified Oscar asking for hopkins at a catchweight.
The only reason I compared the two was to point out your stupidity in comparing somebody dropping 3 pounds and remaining in their weight class to someone dropping ten pounds below their weight class.
I don't expect pac to fight at 154... why would I? That's completely besides the point.
What I do find amusing is that Pacfans still have not been able to work out (or rather don't want to - it's pretty simple) why Roach and Pac were more than happy to take on De La Hoya at 147 pounds but don't want to take on Mosely or Cotto at 147 pounds.
Why might that be? ??? :)
Everyone always considers the Mayweathers and Pacquiaos in the weight situations as being the bad guys. What about the fighters who accept the offers (noone made anyone come down in weight) knowing full well the significant effect it would have on their performance? It's hard to argue that De la Hoya and Marquez, both Hall of Fame fighters, with their ammount of access to sports science (perhaps not so much with Marquez seeing though he consumes his own piss for vitamins instead of just consuming more vitamins) and with history so stacked up against them were not aware how much their chances of victory would be crushed by agreeing to the catchweights. It seems the main problem here is greed. All parties are guilty. However I don't understand how someone can argue that Pacquiao is more of a coward than Mayweather in regards to the catchweight situation. De la Hoya had not fought at 147 in 7 years. Marquez had never fought above 135. De la Hoya had a 4 inch height and 15 cm reach advantage. Marquez had a 1 inch height and 13 cm reach disadvantage (all stats according to boxrec). On the official scales De la Hoya had a 3 pound weight advantage yet made weight. On the official scales Marquez had a 3 pound weight disadvantage while Mayweather did not make weight. I'll admit that I'm a massive Pacquiao fan but its pretty hard to shoulder roll counter right hand those facts. Alot of footwork or perhaps avoiding the exchange completely might do the trick. Or perhaps simply refusing to answer the question would be the best advice. "The numbers don't lie..."
Nobody disputes those numbers... or puts any blame on them... that's not the point... when millions are involved of course they're going to take the risk.
Sports Science is only ever predictive in matters such as this, faith and confidence further skewer a fighter's perception of his limits, but like I've said the deciding factor is always $$$.
http://images.clipartof.com/small/57...lustration.jpg
It's not a case of who's to 'blame' for these fights happening... it's a case of assessing the circumstances objectivly and deciding how much credit you think the victor deserves based off the outcomes.
I guess this thread has as much to do abotu David Diaz as the next thread has to do abotu Pacquiao, Hopkins, ODLH, and Floyd Mayweather.
Let's try to keep our topics a little more separated. I'm sort of tired of reading about JUST the top names in the boxing.
do we have to mention pacs name everytime? :)