Michael Moore's "Capitalism"

Michael Moore seems to be a filmmaker that polarises people. People seem to be strongly for his ideas or against him no matter what. Personally, I don't see why people would be against him. His ideas are human and his intentions are obviously just. Who would now disagree with the gist of Fahrenheit 9-11? Sicko is a film that probably has more relevance now than when it was released. And now Moore has struck again whilst the iron is hot with Capitalism: A love story. I haven't seen this film yet and have no idea when it is ever going to be released out here. But I really want to see it as it is probably going to be a funny and insightful piece of filmmaking.

So, I was just wondering who has seen this yet and what peoples views are. And please no arguments like "Capitalism has been good to Michael Moore...just look at his waistline!" or "Why doesn't he give away all his wealth?". Those arguments are shallow and totally missing the point.

Seeing as I can't watch the film I have been following Moore's publicity run and this has been my favourite interview so far.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4djfc...e=channel_page

Too many of the other interviewers, particularly that muppet Sean Hannity, have their set agenda and argue the most ridiculous things. I quite like this one though as Moore is able to present his case freely.

I like Michael Moore, I think he raises important issues and his influence through his documentaries is enough to act as some kind of check and counterbalance.

I'm sure that not everything he says is accurate and I daresay he has his own agenda as much as any political party, but he still highlights issues and concerns that need to be highlighted.

And not just him, but even documentarists like Morgon Spurlock got McDonalds to introduce healthier food options on their menu as a result of his Supersize Me film.

If nobody spoke out about anything those in power could just do whatever they willed so even if we don't agree with the views of a particular individual or organisation we should be thankful they exist mostly as a conflict of ideas and values leads to a tug of war battle that keeps most things kind of balanced and in the middle, rather than no opposition and one team just pulls the rope over to their side and keeps the rope so they don't have to play any more.

Anything to prevent extremism and totalitarianism I'm all for.

Fair comments, Bilbo.

I like a lot of Michael Moore's stuff and I've seen all of the documentaries he has made, but I haven't seen all of his early television stuff nor read all of his books.

I think Michael Moore is a decent hearted, patriotic American who wants better for his country. He points out flaws in the system and advocates reform in order to improve the lives of ordinary people. It is vitally important that people like him are around. Most of us ordinary folks are quick to complain about the system, but never actually get off of our arses and do anything about it. But Moore keeps on doing his thing and urging people to do even simple things like actually getting out and voting.

This film couldn't have come out at a more suitable time really. The stock market bubble continues to grow whilst unemployment still shoots up. The economy is tanking and I can really see a nose dive happening in the next year, I think it's going to get a lot worse and the global ramifications will be huge. I'm less optimistic than Moore in that I think think America is economically spent and it's time for a paradigm shift in the world economic order.

The first thing to do is to reign in the corruption on wall street and in the banks, but it seems that Obama is unwilling to do it. The eventual implosion will only be more dramatic if things continue as they are now. The banks were given tax payer money to get things pumping again and still people are losing their homes because of dodgy mortgage financing. It's only going to get worse because nothing has been addressed.

I don't like Michael Moore on a more personal level. I know you are in Korea miles and Bilbo is God knows where, but I live in the left wing capital of the world. In fact, both Farenheight 9/11 and Bowling For Columbine had their first showings in Santa Rosa, where amat was born.

Michael Moore annoys the fck out of me there is a VERY strong possibility that I might hate Michael Moore more then even Lyle does. He's manipulative, NEVER tells the whole truth, only half truths, his films are just so damn misleading about what the actual facts are. Actually, I only watched Bowling For Colombine and Farenheight 9/11, and when those films are actually fact checked it's shocking :o And SOOOO many people here just accepts those facts as the end all, in fact the extent of their political views extend to the 4 hours they dedicated to Michael Moore films. It pisses me off.

Seriously, I am on the same side of the fence as Moore politically about a lot of things, I HATE how he goes about it. He sucks, those are my thoughts. Oh yeah Michael Moore has been treated very well by capitalism, check out his waistline. Michael Moore is on camera an awful lot for a repulsive fat guy. Why doesn't Michael Moore shave? Is it because if he did he would look like Peter Griffin pushing a cause? Those are my thoughts.

There were some great sites debunking all the BS Michael Moore perpetuates but I am halfway to drunk I can't be bothered to find them.

Michael Moore obviously has his own ideals and perspective, but people realise that before going to the movie theater. I haven't seem Capitalism yet, but I'm pretty certain that I am going to see some images of Bush pulling stupid faces. I expect that, but then I loathe Bush and think he caused a lot more harm than good during his tenure. I think he needs to be called out. I also think he is a war criminal, but that's not really related to Capitalism the movie. :p

You get a film like Sicko and even with a rudimentary understanding of the US health care system you go into the movie theater knowing full well that this isn't going to be a movie extolling the virtues of a privatised/insurance based health care system.

I've just done a quick Google search on "Moore and fact checking" and there seems to be a fair bit of stuff out there. I will peruse some of it out of interest, but these are often people with political perspectives and agendas of their own to push.

And I said at the start of the thread not to bring up Michael Moores waistline! ;D

....words cannot describe my dislike of that horrid bastard

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Originally Posted by Lyle

....words cannot describe my dislike of that horrid bastard

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:lol:

I knew Lyle would have something to add to this thread! :p

Michael Moore tells half truths and twists everything to fit his view on the world. He's wrong about guns, wrong about healthcare, wrong about 9/11, and he'll be wrong about Capitalism.

Don't expect me to buy any of his propaganda anytime soon and don't expect me to brake if I see him crossing the street.


Michael Moore and Bill Maher are just horrible, I doubt if even Michael Savage mirrors them on the Right, that's how far off the board Left those two bastards are. And the thing is they want everyone to believe if anyone on the right extended a hand to them then they would be friendly towards it, but they are mean, bitter, and spiteful people and they enjoy playing to their base moreso than anyone main stream on the right...Limbaugh isn't even close to being as polarizing as those two

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Originally Posted by amat

I don't like Michael Moore on a more personal level. I know you are in Korea miles and Bilbo is God knows where, but I live in the left wing capital of the world. In fact, both Farenheight 9/11 and Bowling For Columbine had their first showings in Santa Rosa, where amat was born.

Michael Moore annoys the fck out of me there is a VERY strong possibility that I might hate Michael Moore more then even Lyle does. He's manipulative, NEVER tells the whole truth, only half truths, his films are just so damn misleading about what the actual facts are. Actually, I only watched Bowling For Colombine and Farenheight 9/11, and when those films are actually fact checked it's shocking :o And SOOOO many people here just accepts those facts as the end all, in fact the extent of their political views extend to the 4 hours they dedicated to Michael Moore films. It pisses me off.

Seriously, I am on the same side of the fence as Moore politically about a lot of things, I HATE how he goes about it. He sucks, those are my thoughts. Oh yeah Michael Moore has been treated very well by capitalism, check out his waistline. Michael Moore is on camera an awful lot for a repulsive fat guy. Why doesn't Michael Moore shave? Is it because if he did he would look like Peter Griffin pushing a cause? Those are my thoughts.

There were some great sites debunking all the BS Michael Moore perpetuates but I am halfway to drunk I can't be bothered to find them.

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Quite. Just went to prove that MM was responsible for making those bullied kids kill all those lovely people. He's clearly a communist for suggesting such a thing.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Michael Moore tells half truths and twists everything to fit his view on the world. He's wrong about guns, wrong about healthcare, wrong about 9/11, and he'll be wrong about Capitalism.

Don't expect me to buy any of his propaganda anytime soon and don't expect me to brake if I see him crossing the street.


Michael Moore and Bill Maher are just horrible, I doubt if even Michael Savage mirrors them on the Right, that's how far off the board Left those two bastards are. And the thing is they want everyone to believe if anyone on the right extended a hand to them then they would be friendly towards it, but they are mean, bitter, and spiteful people and they enjoy playing to their base moreso than anyone main stream on the right...Limbaugh isn't even close to being as polarizing as those two

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er no!

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Michael Moore tells half truths and twists everything to fit his view on the world. He's wrong about guns, wrong about healthcare, wrong about 9/11, and he'll be wrong about Capitalism.

Don't expect me to buy any of his propaganda anytime soon and don't expect me to brake if I see him crossing the street.


Michael Moore and Bill Maher are just horrible, I doubt if even Michael Savage mirrors them on the Right, that's how far off the board Left those two bastards are. And the thing is they want everyone to believe if anyone on the right extended a hand to them then they would be friendly towards it, but they are mean, bitter, and spiteful people and they enjoy playing to their base moreso than anyone main stream on the right...Limbaugh isn't even close to being as polarizing as those two

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How is he wrong about guns? They are dangerous weapons and kill a lot of people in the US each year. I have never understood the whole gun culture thing TBH.

How is he wrong about healthcare? He showed how corporate greed and irresponsible government policy has left a lot of people without insurance and how even those with insurance are oftentimes rejected of their claims. Health costs are apparently the main reason for bankruptcy in the States. The system needs to be reformed and Moore advocates this.

How was he wrong about 9-11? Bin Laden has never been captured. Iraq had nothing to do with the attacks anyway and the excuse for war was a lie. Both wars continue all these years later and Afghanistan appears to be unwinnable. Even the so called democratic government cheated its way to victory. Surely, that wasn't the goal. Many soldiers died just to replace a corrupt system with another less evil but equally corrupt system?

How is he wrong about capitalism? The system has failed and America is in deep credit. Wall street and the banking leaders continue to bank whilst the biggest economic disaster since the great depression is right around the corner (next year is when it really comes apart). The system as it currently exists does not work, it needs to be reformed.

I'm not attacking you here, Lyle. I'm just curious to know why you oppose Moore so much on these things. As far as I can see Moore is a fairly moral human being who wants better for his fellow citizens. Is that such a bad thing? I don't understand the intense dislike some have for Moore really.

Moore is a bit of a hypocrite and comes out with some shit but he makes serious subjects, and boring ones, entertaining, which obviously gets people to take interest. Good stuff.

Plus if Lyle thinks he's wrong about everything that's a good thing too. Lets be honest now.

I don't care that much either way, he makes some interesting points at times and I agree with him about a fair amount of stuff but yeah you kind of have to have a bullshit meter on when you watch his stuff, kind of like if you watch Fox News but not as bad.

OK, here we go...

On guns, Moore thinks it's too easy for people to get them, they are too dangerous for people to own, and that guns are ONLY used to kill other people. When in reality #1 it's not very easy to get certain types of guns (automatic especially), if someone wants to sell you a hot gun or if you're a felon and you want a hot gun (ie a gun that has been used in a crime or was stolen) it's easy but it's also big time ILLEGAL #2 Guns are a deadly weapon which is why in some states you must pass a background check, training/safety course, and provide a reason for why you want the gun. The majority of LEGAL gun owners (I would estimate well over 90%) are very careful and serious around guns. #3 Guns are used for hunting, sport(target shooting), and for protection and those shouldn't be affected by idiots....idiots also drive cars, drink beer and liquor, and can fly planes.

On healthcare he's just plain wrong....if you got sick or injured would you rather be in America or England or Cuba or Canada??? If I had cancer I'd rather be here in the US because we are successful at treating cancer, more than Cuba, more than England, and more than Canada....sure I may have some hefty bills to pay, but I would be ALIVE.

Miles he skewed the facts about 9/11 it is a FACT. Now thanks to Moore and guys like John Stewart they think W just sat on his ass reading to little kids when he knew we were being attacked....that is a LIE. W didn't know, hell NOBODY knew we were being attacked until the 2nd plane crashed into the tower and....well the entire purpose of the film was to make George W. Bush look like a retard and everyone can go ahead and make their jokes and do all that crap but the man didn't panic, he kept his calm, and for that moment in time he showed some leadership. Have you ever thought for one second what may have happened if he just lept up and ran out of that classroom??? Do you not figure the entire country would have gone ape shit crazy??? And what was W going to do about the situation? At that moment in time it's the CIA/FBI and Pentagon that have to sort out what is happening and give W options for retaliation and prepare an address to the American people. I'm sorry, W wasn't the greatest President we've ever had but he handled 9/11 in a way any leader would have.

Miles, Capitalism works....are people better off in China or Russia than they are in America??? Are people better off in Cuba??? Capitalism has been very kind to our Middle Eastern friends who are sitting on all that oil. Did you ever make comparisons between East and West Germany during the Cold War??? Did anyone WANT to live in East Germany??? Does anyone WANT to live in North Korea??? Are there a lot of jobs in those countries??? Do they pay well??? "A rising tide floats all boats", JFK said that when he cut taxes in order to help create more jobs and that my friend is capitalism at it's best.

Michael Moore is a fucking moron, he lies in a genre of art DOCUMENTARY that is supposed to be objective and tell FACTS, instead he spins things....and because of that I think he's a horrible person.