80s Middleweigts vs. 90s Middleweights
Everyone reveres the middleweights of the 1980s: Leonard, Hagler, Hearns and Duran but the middleweights of the 1990s -McClellan, Eubank, Benn and Jones Jr.-would have fared pretty good against them. Granted, the 90s middleweights were bigger guys but I can imagine an interesting tournement.
Hagler vs McClellan. An absolute war. I would have loved to see that fight above probably any other fantasy match.
Leonard vs Jones Jr. The biggest matchup of handspeed ever.
Duran vs Eubank. A wonderful contrast of styles.
Hearns vs Benn. An explosive fight filled with knockdowns and a knockout.
I think the 90's guys can take 2 of these. I know they are bigger, but let's dream for a minute....
Re: 80s Middleweigts vs. 90s Middleweights
I really would not put Jones on the list of MWts of the 90's since he was there for a very very short period of time, he only defended the title once then vacated....
Leonard, Hearns, Duran were way past their best days when they fought at MW and the fights with Hagler were their last real moments as elite fighters......
Re: 80s Middleweigts vs. 90s Middleweights
Good idea for a thread but how about:
Hagler v Hopkins the 2 longest reigning MW champs of their era, 2 of the greates chins ever.
Mclellan v Hearns someone gonna get KTFO
James Toney v Duran, couple of great technicians.
Re: 80s Middleweigts vs. 90s Middleweights
Quote:
Originally Posted by
God.in.my.corner
Everyone reveres the middleweights of the 1980s: Leonard, Hagler, Hearns and Duran but the middleweights of the 1990s -McClellan, Eubank, Benn and Jones Jr.-would have fared pretty good against them. Granted, the 90s middleweights were bigger guys but I can imagine an interesting tournement.
Hagler vs McClellan. An absolute war. I would have loved to see that fight above probably any other fantasy match.
Leonard vs Jones Jr. The biggest matchup of handspeed ever.
Duran vs Eubank. A wonderful contrast of styles.
Hearns vs Benn. An explosive fight filled with knockdowns and a knockout.
I think the 90's guys can take 2 of these. I know they are bigger, but let's dream for a minute....
It's tough to go purely by decade on this one, because there was a group of quality middleweights who emerged in the late 80's when Hagler was on the downside and looking for the big payout with Leonard.
Hagler was like a Duran in reverse. Duran was best as LW, an ATG, but it was an average era for LWs. He needed to move up for big money fights. It was the golden age of WW's, then he had great fights at MW. Hagler was in an average era for MW's. He totally cleaned out the division, but in the early 80's, you had Hagler, Minter, Antuofermo, Hamsho, and Obelmeijas. He crushed all of them. There were no big fights waiting at 175, and he had to wait for big names to move up to him.
Top to bottom, the MW division was much better in the late 1980's. From 87-90, you had McCallum, Barkley, Kalembay, Mike Nunn, Julian Jackson, and Herol Graham around their primes. Hearns and Duran were past their best, but they were still competitive. Eubank, Collins, Benn, and Watson were starting to emerge. None of them were as good as prime Hagler, but the division was very deep in terms of fighters who were proper Middleweights/SMWs and older greats who were re-established at higher weights.
Of the fights you mentioned:
Roy Jones would have made minced meat out of the MW/SMW version of Ray Leonard, and Ray would have never taken the fight in a million years.
Prime Hagler, the Hagler that could moved, countered, and had great defense DESTROYS McClellan.
Duran 1989 and Eubank would have been fun and very close. Duran 1983 would have given him a lot of trouble, but it would still be fun.
Benn would have a punchers chance against Hearns, but I would expect Hearns to spark Benn pretty quickly.
Imaginary Dream fights:
Nunn against Roy Jones
Hagler against McCallum, Benn, and Eubank.
Julian Jackson against Hearns (spark or get sparked)
McCallum against Eubank and/or Benn
Re: 80s Middleweigts vs. 90s Middleweights
I don't see anyone beating a prime Hagler (unless you are a bias Vegas judge). He was only down once in his career, and that was a flash knockdown. Hagler was a bad, bad man.
I think you are underestimating the G-Man. He beat Jones Jr. as an ametuer, and even Roy said they would have been great rivals.
I would have liked to see Toney vs. Leonard too.
Re: 80s Middleweigts vs. 90s Middleweights
Hagler was the real and best middleweight from the 80's and he would just about beat Jones and BHop.
Hearns was better p4p going up the weights but very vulnerable but favourite against Benn, Jackson, or even Gerald.
Duran would be entertaining and his victory over Barclay was good but not great.
SRL was a bit of a fraud at the weight, way past his best but would have made a great event against any fighter.
Re: 80s Middleweigts vs. 90s Middleweights
herol graham and steve colins they were top class boxers
Re: 80s Middleweigts vs. 90s Middleweights
Quote:
Originally Posted by
God.in.my.corner
I don't see anyone beating a prime Hagler (unless you are a bias Vegas judge). He was only down once in his career, and that was a flash knockdown. Hagler was a bad, bad man.
I think you are underestimating the G-Man. He beat Jones Jr. as an ametuer, and even Roy said they would have been great rivals.
I would have liked to see Toney vs. Leonard too.
A good mover/boxer could beat Marvin Hagler, even in his prime had did have trouble with Marcos Geraldo a boxer with decent movement, he gave Marvin Hagler a pretty close fight. And you could see in that fighter where SRL got his gameplan from.
And some of the other Philly boxers outboxed Marvin Hagler, and i heard even Kevin Finnegan gave him hell. Of course Marvin Hagler wasn't at his peak then.
But i still think it shows he could be outboxed, although the opponent would have to be at the top of his game. And be incredibly skillful. Someone like RJJ, Herol Graham, Michael Nunn, ETC.
Re: 80s Middleweigts vs. 90s Middleweights
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
God.in.my.corner
I don't see anyone beating a prime Hagler (unless you are a bias Vegas judge). He was only down once in his career, and that was a flash knockdown. Hagler was a bad, bad man.
I think you are underestimating the G-Man. He beat Jones Jr. as an ametuer, and even Roy said they would have been great rivals.
I would have liked to see Toney vs. Leonard too.
A good mover/boxer could beat Marvin Hagler, even in his prime had did have trouble with Marcos Geraldo a boxer with decent movement, he gave Marvin Hagler a pretty close fight. And you could see in that fighter where SRL got his gameplan from.
And some of the other Philly boxers outboxed Marvin Hagler, and i heard even Kevin Finnegan gave him hell. Of course Marvin Hagler wasn't at his peak then.
But i still think it shows he could be outboxed, although the opponent would have to be at the top of his game. And be incredibly skillful. Someone like RJJ, Herol Graham, Michael Nunn, ETC.
Yeah but Hagler was the type of guy that you not only had to outbox but outfight.....Not as if Marvin was some unskilled brawler.....Leonard was given a gift decision against Hagler
Re: 80s Middleweigts vs. 90s Middleweights
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DaxxKahn
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
God.in.my.corner
I don't see anyone beating a prime Hagler (unless you are a bias Vegas judge). He was only down once in his career, and that was a flash knockdown. Hagler was a bad, bad man.
I think you are underestimating the G-Man. He beat Jones Jr. as an ametuer, and even Roy said they would have been great rivals.
I would have liked to see Toney vs. Leonard too.
A good mover/boxer could beat Marvin Hagler, even in his prime had did have trouble with Marcos Geraldo a boxer with decent movement, he gave Marvin Hagler a pretty close fight. And you could see in that fighter where SRL got his gameplan from.
And some of the other Philly boxers outboxed Marvin Hagler, and i heard even Kevin Finnegan gave him hell. Of course Marvin Hagler wasn't at his peak then.
But i still think it shows he could be outboxed, although the opponent would have to be at the top of his game. And be incredibly skillful. Someone like RJJ, Herol Graham, Michael Nunn, ETC.
Yeah but Hagler was the type of guy that you not only had to outbox but outfight.....Not as if Marvin was some unskilled brawler.....Leonard was given a gift decision against Hagler
Marvin Hagler was a very skilled aggressive fighter, and an underrated counter puncher with a good jab. And he did seem to be almost the complete package.
But his weaknesses were that his footwork was quite slow, and his handspeed was mediocre. Which is why he had some troubles vs boxers.
As for the SRL fight i'd rather not debate that, because that really is beating a dead horse. All i'll say is that it was a very close fight which could of gone either way.
But its not only the SRL fight im basing my argument on, just look at the fighters i mentioned above and some of those fights. Were when Marvin Hagler was almost at his peak.
And as i said i could see Michael Nunn, Herol Graham, RJJ, beating Marvin Hagler.
Re: 80s Middleweigts vs. 90s Middleweights
I remember my father describing him as having a "turn-of-the-century" toughness that was unique for modern fighters. He was a man without fear that didn't beat opponents, but detroyed them.
Re: 80s Middleweigts vs. 90s Middleweights
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DaxxKahn
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
A good mover/boxer could beat Marvin Hagler, even in his prime had did have trouble with Marcos Geraldo a boxer with decent movement, he gave Marvin Hagler a pretty close fight. And you could see in that fighter where SRL got his gameplan from.
And some of the other Philly boxers outboxed Marvin Hagler, and i heard even Kevin Finnegan gave him hell. Of course Marvin Hagler wasn't at his peak then.
But i still think it shows he could be outboxed, although the opponent would have to be at the top of his game. And be incredibly skillful. Someone like RJJ, Herol Graham, Michael Nunn, ETC.
Yeah but Hagler was the type of guy that you not only had to outbox but outfight.....Not as if Marvin was some unskilled brawler.....Leonard was given a gift decision against Hagler
Marvin Hagler was a very skilled aggressive fighter, and an underrated counter puncher with a good jab. And he did seem to be almost the complete package.
But his weaknesses were that his footwork was quite slow, and his handspeed was mediocre. Which is why he had some troubles vs boxers.
As for the SRL fight i'd rather not debate that, because that really is beating a dead horse. All i'll say is that it was a very close fight which could of gone either way.
But its not only the SRL fight im basing my argument on, just look at the fighters i mentioned above and some of those fights. Were when Marvin Hagler was almost at his peak.
And as i said i could see Michael Nunn, Herol Graham, RJJ, beating Marvin Hagler.
I think Herol Graham is a heck of a fighter, but I don't see him beating Hagler. He would be game, but I think Hagler would break him down and KO him late. I also think prime for prime, Hagler would stop Nunn. Nunn would certainly have his moments, but Hagler's mental toughness, jaw, and power would carry the day.
There were a few fighters who out boxed Hagler. He was a "good" boxer, not a great one. True. However, there are very few fighters in the history of boxing who had his combination of tough brawler (with chin and power) AND boxing skill.
He didn't have the best feet, and his toughest fights were against guys who got on their bicycles or against slick philly fighters who could counterpunch and roll with his power. Duran was a good example. He fought Duran's fight and made it much closer than it should have been.
Kevin Finnigan gave him tough fights, but Hagler still KO'd him twice. He avenged his two losses (road losses in Philly) with quick and brutal KO's. When he fought Geraldo, he had fought Watts ONE month before. He fought Hamani two months before that, and Antuofermo 10 weeks before that. That's four fights from the end of November to May. Big shock he had trouble chasing down a mover, Ice.
Jones would have been his two biggest. I can see Jones beating him, basically by running and being flashy, but I could also see Jones getting KTFO.
