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For years, I have been an outspoken advocate for boxing reform. To this end, I have wriiten any number of articles on the subject. Recently, I started a series of such articles. The first one dealt with mismatches between young and brutal fighters one the one hand and those who have seen their best days such as Antwun Echols on the other
Can you name some subjects or situations that could be included in this series?
Thank you.;D
Ill start it (and sob:-\ maybe end it) by saying Damaged Goods
Freddie Norwood and Vivian Harris come to mind. Namely the bloated promoters who would use a name to pad the record of some rebuilding hopeful when even joe sixpack can look at Harris and know he's dangerously shot.
Networks that openly admonish (ESPN) a young ama stars opponents but repeatedly air the matches against bag boys from the neighborhood Vons. If your going to feed on subpar its understandable early on but its very much like making Sausage, do it in the backroom where the customers cant see it.
Sure, I am working with a dangerous, raw, boxer. He has a limited amateur career, 1-0 as a pro, first round ko. For 3 months we have made proposal after proposal. We have never turned down terms offered. We can't get a fight. We have been up for local fights and guys with national and international credentials and the answer has been "no", 12 times in a row. If you can fight, it's hard to get a fight. We need pro tournaments for up and comers. The current system is a joke. One matchmaker asked me "your guy got a pulse?", "yeah"....."forget it, they won't fight anyone with a pulse".
Wow, how darker corner are you prepared to aim a light into? How far back you want to go too?Quote:
Originally Posted by holmcall
Fixed fights of old, mob connections, does it still go down? Piss poor judges that are far wide of what actually occurred on the night, are they linked to side gambling?
Refs that shouldnt be in the ring,bad stoppages/deaths. Keeping great refs out of the game because in some states it is blood ties that get you work in the game not boxing or reffing experience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreWow, how darker corner are you prepared to aim a light into? How far back you want to go too?Quote:
Originally Posted by holmcall
Fixed fights of old, mob connections, does it still go down? Piss poor judges that are far wide of what actually occurred on the night, are they linked to side gambling?
Refs that shouldnt be in the ring,bad stoppages/deaths. Keeping great refs out of the game because in some states it is blood ties that get you work in the game not boxing or reffing experience.
I personally go back to the late 40's so bring it on. I'll take whatever subjects you can give me. From Jim Norris to Frankie Carbo to sanction fees to mismatches.
Well I would say the involvement of organized crime most noteably with Sonny Liston, Primo Carnera, and Ali-Terrell. Liston was a very strange case may have been involved with fixes, died mysteriously. Carnera was a pawn for the mob, there was even a movie made about him 'The Harder They Fall' (Humphrey Bogart's last movie). Terrell's manager tried to muscle Ali's camp into taking a dive, but "The Nation" (Nation of Islam) had Ali's back and took care of that manager...put him in a mental ward when it was all over if I remember correctly.
Holmcall,
I think this is great. Let me think about it and get back to you.
Do you have links to your articles on boxing reform?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
Here you are:
From 1993 to 2004, Antwun "Kid Dynamite" Echols ran up an admirable 29-5-1 mark. After losing his first professional fight, he won 13 in a row all by stoppage but against dreadful opposition that even included the infamous Eric Crumble who would finish his career at 0-31-(KO 31). In 2006, he fought a draw against tough and future world champion Eric Lucas in Quebec and then won 8 more in a row again all by stoppage. He had earned a reputation as a force.
In 1999, "The Kid" stepped up and lost a UD to IBF Middleweight Champion, Bernard Hopkins but he gave a good account of himself. Echols was stopped in the 10th stanza in a rematch with Hopkins in Las Vegas in a dirty, foul-filled fight that looked more like a street fight than a boxing match.
The Brewer Brawl
On May 19, 2001, in a fight I saw live at the Mohegan Sun in Uncasville, CT, Echols participated in one of the most remarkable closet classic in boxing history against Philadelphian Charles "The Hatchet" Brewer (36-7). After an ebb and flow first round that featured an exchange of heavy blows, Echols was viciously decked 3 times in the 2nd stanza that put him on Queer Street. Somehow and to the amazement of the spectators, he survived. In round 3, Brewer immediately went for the kill but instead was hit by a straight right from Echols that decked him. Echols, now fully recovered, went after him like a mugger at midnight and caught Brewer flush with a looping right. "The Kid" then maneuvered Brewer to the ropes where he landed a series of head snapping shots that forced referee Michael Ortega to halt matters in what many considered a premature stoppage. Nevertheless, the incredible turnaround was one for the memory bank.
In 2002, Echols displayed his vaunted power by waxing and exposing Oscar Bravo (16-1) with a crunching hook early in round one. Bravo did a Berbeck 3-step. Echols also beat roughhousing (as in dirty) Kabary Salem (16-1).Then in 2003, a favored Echols lost by close decision to Anthony Mundine for the vacant WBA Super Middleweight title. Two years later, he was stopped by Nigerian transplant Kingsley Ikeke (22-1) in an IBF Middleweight Eliminator.
Post Ikeke
The stoppage loss to Ikeke marked the beginning of a downward journey for "Kid Dynamite." Suddenly, he no longer was the feared, skilled, and seasoned veteran with heavy hands and a decent chin. Yes, he had been decked before, but more often than not this crowd pleaser came back more dangerous than ever and managed to snatch victory from impending defeat.
In addition to fighting stiff opposition, Echols fought 80 grueling rounds in 2007 and 2008. As a result, he became a shadow of his former self and fought with visibly unsteady legs. In 2009, he was stopped by rugged Roman "Made in Hell" Karmazin (though he did deck "Hell"), Phil Williams, and Angel Hernandez. In 2010, the Memphis native notched a KO win against winless Fred Thomas. He then went the distance against undefeated Caleb Truax (14-0-1), but was stopped by Darryl Cunningham (19-2) in 3, savaged by heavy handed Joey "KO Kid" Spina (25-1-2) in 3, and then waxed by a sap-like shot to the head by Colombian bomber Alejandro "Naco" Berrio (31-5) also in 3. Since the Ikeke fight, Echols’s record is a troublesome 1-11- 3 including 7 stoppage defeats.
The Future
Antwun’s career record is now 32 (KO 28)-16 (KO9)-4. He has fought in 19 different states and in Ecuador, Canada (twice), and Australia. He was once a proud and formidable fighter and has a fine legacy as a power punching crowd pleaser. Many of his fights were spine tinglers where he came from behind to win, but those chillers were then and this is now and Father Time is not charitable. Fighting the likes of Berrio at this point could well be a bad accident waiting to happen.
After watching footage of young Joey Spina brutally taking apart "The Kid" at Foxwoods, my memory sadly drifted back to the Brewer vs. Echols classic that took place 9 years ago just up the road at another Connecticut casino. I thought about how that version of Echols would have iced Spina early and malifically like he did against Oscar Bravo. For his own sake, I wish "The Kid" would retire, but that’s a decision he must make—and because of that, I am again reminded that there are many dimensions to this business of boxing and some are darker than others.
Another:
The Darker Side of Boxing: April 9, 2011
No matter what some people say about him not fighting much lately, he’s a legend and you have to respect a legend. Especially if he’s Mexican.
-Marcos Maidana
Long in the tooth legend Marco Antonio Barrera, recently scored a crushing second-round TKO over hapless Jose Arias of the Dominican Republic. The fight was in Barrera’s’ native Mexico, but speaking of long in the tooth, Arias is 43-years-old and holds just four wins over fighters who held a winning record coming in against him. But far worse is yet to come.
The winner of the Tomasz Adamek vs. Kevin McBride bout on April 9 in Newark, NJ, is a foregone conclusion. If the likable McBride cannot win a Prize Fighter tourney in England, how is he going to beat Vitali Klitschko’s next opponent? Even as a tune-up, this fight will not do the Polish fighter much good. This is a mismatch plain and simple and will be over faster than you can say "Kielbasa."
Another ugly one is on tap for April 9 when another former Mexican legend, Erik "El Terrible" Morales, goes up against arguably the hardest-hitting light-welterweight in boxing, Marcos "El Chino" Maidana. While Morales may be a Hall of Famer in waiting, this fight will do nothing to enhance his legacy. In fact, Maidana should be able to walk right through Morales and achieve a brutish closure within five rounds. He simply is too strong and too prime. Moreover, "El Terrible" is a proud fighter with lots of will, but this could work against him in sustaining more punishment than is necessary. This one makes me particularly uncomfortable.
Also, on April 9, another foregone conclusion will occur when junior middleweight James Kirkland (25-0), one of boxing’s hottest rising stars before his career was slowed down by an 18-month prison term, will go up against an opponent to be named. You can bet your money that the "opponent to be named" will be a sacrificial lamb led to another quick and definitive slaughter.
April 9, 2011, represents the darker side of boxing when three men go into the ring only to be savaged. And I’ll be there watching it all play out— as the pendulum of my love and hate for this sport continues to move back and forth.
That was a pearler of a fight, I'll never forget it ;D .Quote:
Originally Posted by holmcallQuote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
Here you are:
From 1993 to 2004, Antwun "Kid Dynamite" Echols ran up an admirable 29-5-1 mark. After losing his first professional fight, he won 13 in a row all by stoppage but against dreadful opposition that even included the infamous Eric Crumble who would finish his career at 0-31-(KO 31). In 2006, he fought a draw against tough and future world champion Eric Lucas in Quebec and then won 8 more in a row again all by stoppage. He had earned a reputation as a force.
In 1999, "The Kid" stepped up and lost a UD to IBF Middleweight Champion, Bernard Hopkins but he gave a good account of himself. Echols was stopped in the 10th stanza in a rematch with Hopkins in Las Vegas in a dirty, foul-filled fight that looked more like a street fight than a boxing match.
The Brewer Brawl
On May 19, 2001, in a fight I saw live at the Mohegan Sun in Uncasville, CT, Echols participated in one of the most remarkable closet classic in boxing history against Philadelphian Charles "The Hatchet" Brewer (36-7). After an ebb and flow first round that featured an exchange of heavy blows, Echols was viciously decked 3 times in the 2nd stanza that put him on Queer Street. Somehow and to the amazement of the spectators, he survived. In round 3, Brewer immediately went for the kill but instead was hit by a straight right from Echols that decked him. Echols, now fully recovered, went after him like a mugger at midnight and caught Brewer flush with a looping right. "The Kid" then maneuvered Brewer to the ropes where he landed a series of head snapping shots that forced referee Michael Ortega to halt matters in what many considered a premature stoppage. Nevertheless, the incredible turnaround was one for the memory bank.
In 2002, Echols displayed his vaunted power by waxing and exposing Oscar Bravo (16-1) with a crunching hook early in round one. Bravo did a Berbeck 3-step. Echols also beat roughhousing (as in dirty) Kabary Salem (16-1).Then in 2003, a favored Echols lost by close decision to Anthony Mundine for the vacant WBA Super Middleweight title. Two years later, he was stopped by Nigerian transplant Kingsley Ikeke (22-1) in an IBF Middleweight Eliminator.
Post Ikeke
The stoppage loss to Ikeke marked the beginning of a downward journey for "Kid Dynamite." Suddenly, he no longer was the feared, skilled, and seasoned veteran with heavy hands and a decent chin. Yes, he had been decked before, but more often than not this crowd pleaser came back more dangerous than ever and managed to snatch victory from impending defeat.
In addition to fighting stiff opposition, Echols fought 80 grueling rounds in 2007 and 2008. As a result, he became a shadow of his former self and fought with visibly unsteady legs. In 2009, he was stopped by rugged Roman "Made in Hell" Karmazin (though he did deck "Hell"), Phil Williams, and Angel Hernandez. In 2010, the Memphis native notched a KO win against winless Fred Thomas. He then went the distance against undefeated Caleb Truax (14-0-1), but was stopped by Darryl Cunningham (19-2) in 3, savaged by heavy handed Joey "KO Kid" Spina (25-1-2) in 3, and then waxed by a sap-like shot to the head by Colombian bomber Alejandro "Naco" Berrio (31-5) also in 3. Since the Ikeke fight, Echols’s record is a troublesome 1-11- 3 including 7 stoppage defeats.
The Future
Antwun’s career record is now 32 (KO 28)-16 (KO9)-4. He has fought in 19 different states and in Ecuador, Canada (twice), and Australia. He was once a proud and formidable fighter and has a fine legacy as a power punching crowd pleaser. Many of his fights were spine tinglers where he came from behind to win, but those chillers were then and this is now and Father Time is not charitable. Fighting the likes of Berrio at this point could well be a bad accident waiting to happen.
After watching footage of young Joey Spina brutally taking apart "The Kid" at Foxwoods, my memory sadly drifted back to the Brewer vs. Echols classic that took place 9 years ago just up the road at another Connecticut casino. I thought about how that version of Echols would have iced Spina early and malifically like he did against Oscar Bravo. For his own sake, I wish "The Kid" would retire, but that’s a decision he must make—and because of that, I am again reminded that there are many dimensions to this business of boxing and some are darker than others.
here it is..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSCXeizgKTY
My friend told me a story how a guy from his hometown, considered a good prospect at the time, was fighting a guy from out of town, considered to be a real tough guy, but in town to lose. The day of the fight, the opponent said that if he didn't get another $1,500 he would try to win and they paid him. Interesting thing, last time I checked the opponent that wanted more money was a state boxing commissioner.
Wow what a fightQuote:
Originally Posted by AndreThat was a pearler of a fight, I'll never forget it ;D .Quote:
Originally Posted by holmcallQuote:
Originally Posted by Rantcatrat
Here you are:
From 1993 to 2004, Antwun "Kid Dynamite" Echols ran up an admirable 29-5-1 mark. After losing his first professional fight, he won 13 in a row all by stoppage but against dreadful opposition that even included the infamous Eric Crumble who would finish his career at 0-31-(KO 31). In 2006, he fought a draw against tough and future world champion Eric Lucas in Quebec and then won 8 more in a row again all by stoppage. He had earned a reputation as a force.
In 1999, "The Kid" stepped up and lost a UD to IBF Middleweight Champion, Bernard Hopkins but he gave a good account of himself. Echols was stopped in the 10th stanza in a rematch with Hopkins in Las Vegas in a dirty, foul-filled fight that looked more like a street fight than a boxing match.
The Brewer Brawl
On May 19, 2001, in a fight I saw live at the Mohegan Sun in Uncasville, CT, Echols participated in one of the most remarkable closet classic in boxing history against Philadelphian Charles "The Hatchet" Brewer (36-7). After an ebb and flow first round that featured an exchange of heavy blows, Echols was viciously decked 3 times in the 2nd stanza that put him on Queer Street. Somehow and to the amazement of the spectators, he survived. In round 3, Brewer immediately went for the kill but instead was hit by a straight right from Echols that decked him. Echols, now fully recovered, went after him like a mugger at midnight and caught Brewer flush with a looping right. "The Kid" then maneuvered Brewer to the ropes where he landed a series of head snapping shots that forced referee Michael Ortega to halt matters in what many considered a premature stoppage. Nevertheless, the incredible turnaround was one for the memory bank.
In 2002, Echols displayed his vaunted power by waxing and exposing Oscar Bravo (16-1) with a crunching hook early in round one. Bravo did a Berbeck 3-step. Echols also beat roughhousing (as in dirty) Kabary Salem (16-1).Then in 2003, a favored Echols lost by close decision to Anthony Mundine for the vacant WBA Super Middleweight title. Two years later, he was stopped by Nigerian transplant Kingsley Ikeke (22-1) in an IBF Middleweight Eliminator.
Post Ikeke
The stoppage loss to Ikeke marked the beginning of a downward journey for "Kid Dynamite." Suddenly, he no longer was the feared, skilled, and seasoned veteran with heavy hands and a decent chin. Yes, he had been decked before, but more often than not this crowd pleaser came back more dangerous than ever and managed to snatch victory from impending defeat.
In addition to fighting stiff opposition, Echols fought 80 grueling rounds in 2007 and 2008. As a result, he became a shadow of his former self and fought with visibly unsteady legs. In 2009, he was stopped by rugged Roman "Made in Hell" Karmazin (though he did deck "Hell"), Phil Williams, and Angel Hernandez. In 2010, the Memphis native notched a KO win against winless Fred Thomas. He then went the distance against undefeated Caleb Truax (14-0-1), but was stopped by Darryl Cunningham (19-2) in 3, savaged by heavy handed Joey "KO Kid" Spina (25-1-2) in 3, and then waxed by a sap-like shot to the head by Colombian bomber Alejandro "Naco" Berrio (31-5) also in 3. Since the Ikeke fight, Echols’s record is a troublesome 1-11- 3 including 7 stoppage defeats.
The Future
Antwun’s career record is now 32 (KO 28)-16 (KO9)-4. He has fought in 19 different states and in Ecuador, Canada (twice), and Australia. He was once a proud and formidable fighter and has a fine legacy as a power punching crowd pleaser. Many of his fights were spine tinglers where he came from behind to win, but those chillers were then and this is now and Father Time is not charitable. Fighting the likes of Berrio at this point could well be a bad accident waiting to happen.
After watching footage of young Joey Spina brutally taking apart "The Kid" at Foxwoods, my memory sadly drifted back to the Brewer vs. Echols classic that took place 9 years ago just up the road at another Connecticut casino. I thought about how that version of Echols would have iced Spina early and malifically like he did against Oscar Bravo. For his own sake, I wish "The Kid" would retire, but that’s a decision he must make—and because of that, I am again reminded that there are many dimensions to this business of boxing and some are darker than others.
here it is..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSCXeizgKTY
Great eh ;D ,what a shame it didnt go a few more seconds more!
premature stoppage for sure but probably only by seconds.
I think Charles was a goner anyway cause he had his elbows out with his gloves protecting the sides of head but Eccols was throwing dead straight down the pipe so really they would be still unanswered.
Yes but it was such a dramatic turn around that Tate deserved some more seconds, could have survived.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre