The Recent Demise of American Boxing
Is it me or have American boxers lost more than they've won in recent times? To name a few examples:
Danny Jacobs lost to Dimitry Pirog
Steve Cunningham lost to Tomaz Adamek
Paul Williams lost to Sergio Martinez
Kelly Pavlik lost to Sergio Martinez
Jermain Taylor lost to Arthur Abraham and Carl Froch
James Kirkland lost to Nobuhiro Ishida
Shane Mosley lost to Manny Pacquiao
Eddie Chambers lost to Wladimir Klitschko
Cris Arreola lost to Vitali Klitschko
Chad Dawson to Jean Pascal
Roy Jones lost to everyone.
There are only two Americans on the top ten p4p lis. There's only one American heavyweight in the top ten. There's only one American cruiserweight in the top ten. There's only three American light heavyweights in the top ten. There's only one American super middleweight in the top ten. There is NO American middleweight in the top ten. Junior middleweight is the only division dominated by Americans. There's only two Americans in the top ten at welterweight. And it goes on.
I understand that there are probably a dozen counter examples to the ones above, but still, boxing is a sport, where, correct me if I'm wrong, but Americans have traditionally done very well. It seems that now most of the top competition is coming from outside of the US. Am I wrong? If not, what do you think is the reason behind this recent demise in American boxing. Lack of gyms? Lack of good coaches? Rest of the world has caught up?
Re: The Recent Demise of American Boxing
american kids play lots of strange games that take all day and are very unentertaining
baseball, american football
and the rest play dull none contact games like basketball
and then there are homosexual "sports" that dominate your tv watched by youngsters such as wrestling
you dont get such sports and games and such like entertainment in other countries
Re: The Recent Demise of American Boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
american kids play lots of strange games that take all day and are very unentertaining
baseball, american football
and the rest play dull none contact games like basketball
and then there are homosexual "sports" that dominate your tv watched by youngsters such as wrestling
you dont get such sports and games and such like entertainment in other countries
Yeah we should probably get into Cricket, cause that's a quick one. Or maybe higher contact like darts. And of course no other country has wrestling right? :rolleyes:
Anyway, American athletes have little incentive to get into boxing from a financial standpoint. The odds of them ending up getting Mayweather / De La Hoya / Tyson level paydays are slimmer than the lottery. If someone is athletic and has a chance to turn pro, they are much more likely to do it in a team sport here like baseball, american football or basketball where they can earn very good money sitting on the bench, where as with boxing unless they make special connections with corrupt people very early, they will be fighting for a 12-pack of beer. Soccer is different here as well, the leading scorer for MLS last season only made 48K for the year.
To rantcatrat Cunningham has worked his way back up. But I agree that American boxing dominance is over, the rest of the world has caught up and surpassed us, largely due to a lack of interest here.
Re: The Recent Demise of American Boxing
Don't be dissing the Darts, Sheep. Darts pisses all over boxing. Fact.
I think killersheep is probably about right. The type of environment that attracts fighters is no longer as attractive or relevant to modern-day America. In other words - There are easier/safer ways to earn big money.
Also boxing is far more global now than it used to be (for all fans worldwide). Just 5-6 years ago on this site it was common for American fans to state "champions" from outside the USA hadn't "proved" themselves, or had padded records and the like. I see less and less of this attitude now. So maybe you just think there has been a drastic decline?
Re: The Recent Demise of American Boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Don't be dissing the Darts, Sheep. Darts pisses all over boxing. Fact.
I think killersheep is probably about right. The type of environment that attracts fighters is no longer as attractive or relevant to modern-day America. In other words - There are easier/safer ways to earn big money.
Also boxing is far more global now than it used to be (for all fans worldwide). Just 5-6 years ago on this site it was common for American fans to state "champions" from outside the USA hadn't "proved" themselves, or had padded records and the like. I see less and less of this attitude now. So maybe you just think there has been a drastic decline?
Didn't diss darts, until they start throwing them at each other it's hardly a contact sport though no?
Re: The Recent Demise of American Boxing
I bleed stars and stripes but ya know, I think it's a great thing. Frankly long overdue. Boxing is a true international sport and for the longest time we have seemed to live in a cacoon with little exposure to fighters overseas. You used to literally have to hunt fighters from Asia down, all the while American fans missed some quality gems. Higher visability, easier viewing possibility mean more oppurtunities and wider fan base. I think we- Networks are wayyyy to stuck on fast tracking guys and polishing as unfinished product for the flavor of the month, manufacturing stars rather than letting them rise. I've always thought a early lose is where the real learning and defining begins. It strips a guy to the bones of development. Oh and we still have K-9 Bundrage man, not all is lost ;D
Re: The Recent Demise of American Boxing
Most of my favorite fighters these days are from other countries, and to be honest there just aren't that many American fighters I like well enough to be a fan of.
I think it's good for boxing that World titles are really an International thing now. At one time, pro boxing was almost like the World series in baseball, I mean why call it the "World" series if all the teams playing are American. :rolleyes:
Re: The Recent Demise of American Boxing
I am a huge fan of boxing. But it isn't just american dominance of boxing that's going away, the entire sport is in a state of decline as a whole right now. Stars not fighting eachother until they're way past their prime, corrupt sanctioning bodies etc...And as for American dominance, an earlier poster was right. Top notch athletes have many more, and safer, options over here. Why come up through golden gloves and fight your first 15 fights for chump change and hope the champ doesn't duck you, when you can sign an NFL or NBA contract, get a huge signing bonus up front, then see if your talent develops. Now to the declining fan base in boxing as a whole. I've already mentioned the big names avoiding eachother, but also the fact that I can't watch a superstar matchup in my living room without shelling out $60.00. It's very expensive to be a fan of this sport. I can watch an NFL or NBA game on my television anytime without having to special order it. MMA is catching on in a big way here in the U.S. I'm doing my best to resist but it's getting harder and harder.
Re: The Recent Demise of American Boxing
Armenians have been doing quite well.
Re: The Recent Demise of American Boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
#1 These things are cyclical but due to there being no more USSR that deepens the talent pool. There are also more defectors from Cuba. The US has not been challenged to produce true great boxers for a while, it was a given we'd have them and look how our Olympic team has suffered. Never to fear, we'll be back, like I said its cyclical.
#2 The NBA and MLB have WORLD Champions because the best players in the world play in those leagues....anybody doubt that?
No, but that's about like saying the UK has the World's best Cricket players or Australia has the best Australian rules Football players.
The fact is the rest of the world caught up to the U.S. in boxing, America may develop some great new boxing talent in the future, but they will never dominate like they once did.
Re: The Recent Demise of American Boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
#1 These things are cyclical but due to there being no more USSR that deepens the talent pool. There are also more defectors from Cuba. The US has not been challenged to produce true great boxers for a while, it was a given we'd have them and look how our Olympic team has suffered. Never to fear, we'll be back, like I said its cyclical.
#2 The NBA and MLB have WORLD Champions because the best players in the world play in those leagues....anybody doubt that?
Outside of America no-one gives a shit about those sports. You can't compare a predominant American sport with one like football (soccer). Everywhere on the planet it is played and worshipped in astronomical numbers, by all walks of life.
Is being the worlds best baseball team any better than being the worlds best sumo?
Re: The Recent Demise of American Boxing
I actually hope your right Lyle. I hope American boxing reaches great heights again.
I am first and foremost a boxing fan and when Americans are great boxing is great. Barring Floyd though right now I don't think I could call anyone from the U.S. great. Hopefully the Olympics next year will bring a few very good fighters through at least!
Re: The Recent Demise of American Boxing
I think there is no question that both American boxing and boxing around the world are on the decline.
In the US we have fewer fighters, fewer boxing shows, fewer gyms, fewer good teachers etc than we've had in at least 60 and probably more like 90 years. Why has this come to pass? Four big reasons (and a bunch of little ones).
1. Cultural-There is no other way to look at it, the US has become wussified. The entire culture is becoming feminized in terms of how boys are raised. Fighting is really frowned upon.
2. Economic-Fighters often come from places where people worry about their next meal. That stopped happening here a generation ago.
3. Competition-Up until 50 years ago talented athletes had two ways to make big money. Boxing and baseball. So those sports got the cream of the athletic crop. Now? one caqn make a good living playing soccer, football, baseball, golf, tennis, swimming, weightlifitng and on and on.
4. Corruption-The increase in the number of divisions and belts and therefore the ability of fighters to avoid other top fighters and still call themselves a "champion" has not been lost on fans.
Around the world, with the exception of the old Warsaw Pact Nations and Argentina? The sport is in similar decline. Argentina is about where it has been for 50 years, the Warsaw Pact Nations have come from nowhere to somewhere rapidly.
