BTW..... no props for Gino Rodriguez? C'mon!

We (myself included) are only too quick to dump on a ref when he screws up. But how about Gino Rodriguez last night? I thought he did a remarkable job. I thought the point he deducted from Wlad in Round 7 was dead on. Wlad WAS pulling Haye down behind the head, and Gino had warned Wlad on repeated occasions. But THEN.... when it became obvious that it was more Haye's flopping than Wlad's pulling, Gino turned his attention on HIM.

Here again, he warned Haye on numerous occasions. "Quit doing that!" And to everyone's surprise (including Merchant and company), and my delight..... he counted a flop in Round 11 as a knockdown!! Genius. Some Haye fans may have said, "That was a questionable knockdown". Hell.... it wasn't even a knockdown. But if you're going to throw yourself on the ground like that, then take the 8-count. That made Haye fight more than anything Wlad did.

So props to the ref on this one.

:cool:

Yeah, I think Wlad deserved to lose a point but later on Haye did too... Seeing as you can't lose a point for tripping it was a far call.

I reckon Wlad's camp probably chose a smoother canvas cos they knew Haye would be moving a lot... But the ammount of times he slipped was ridiculous.

No ref should be praised for counting that knock down. I also think the point deduction from wlad was a bit uncalled for.

He stayed out of it for the most part which is good, but the errors he did make, shouldn't have been made.


Haye's tactics to go down when wlad lent on him rather than stay up and let himself get worn down, were clever. Leaning on someone isn't an infringement of the rules, you can't complain because one competetor isn't alowing another one to cheat.

The ref did a pretty poor job. It seemed like he was doing what each cornerman told him to. When Booth complained he took a point from Wvlad and when manny complained he counted a knockdown against Haye.

I understand that the ref called it a KD cuz he was frustrated from Haye diving so wanted to stop that happening but theres ways of going about things. He did it wrong. He should have stood him up then deducted a point from him. Counting that as a knockdown was the wrong decision. The people in charge should sit him down make him watch it back and admit to being wrong. If he sticks by his decision and still believes that it was a genuine knockdown then he shouldnt be allowed near another title fight.

From a fan's perspective.... where we're all expecting a good, action fight... I thought Gino did an EXCELLENT job. Regardless of what drove him to do what he did. Wlad was pulling Haye down behind the head. We all saw it, the crowd saw it, the corners saw it. What would you have preferred... that he didn't do anything at all? As for Haye, I stand by my opinion. Flopping in itself is not a foul. But it ruins a fight. When a fighter takes a knee, the ref gives him an 8-count, right? Well, Haye didn't take a knee, but he did throw himself to the ground on many occasions. So take the 8-count.

That being said, I can't blame Haye fans for thinking to the contrary. After the shameful exhibition Haye put forth last night...... I'd be looking for all sorts of excuses, too.

;)

Being a ref is a thankless job. No matter how good you do.... you're always going to have half the people criticizing your ass. (Usually... it's the loser's fans). But when fans pay good money to see a championship fight, they (we) want to see good, clean action. None of this pulling behind the head or flopping shit. And if the fighters themselves don't seem inclined to provide this to us, the only other person with any power in the ring is the ref. Not that our enjoyment should be a priority in the mind of the ref. He's too busy doing his job. But by taking the necessary actions to prevent and/or discourage the types of tactics that turn us fans off, I believe refs provide a good service.

Just my two cents worth.

:cool:

I like a take charge ref but thought the point deduct was premature. Equally and as much as Haye was falling around like a nursing new born calf and trying to work ref, the ref can't just make it up and act on emotion or something. That could have been turned with a biased agenda driven ref and outrage would be defening...but Hayes 'style' made it fan friendly. If anything just stand Haye up and dock a point. KD's are already blown enough and rulz is rulz, its a slippery slope once you start appealing to group think.

I thought the ref did a good job. Wlad was pushing down on Haye and probably deserved to lose a point, but Haye was taking the piss throwing himself to the canvas literally every round looking to get Wlad disqualified or points deducted.

Haye has no one but himself to blame for the standing count. He dives so much he could quit boxing and pursue a career as a premiership footballer!

Or have I been too harsh on Haye - he did have a broken toe after all?:rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AdamGB

Yeah, I think Wlad deserved to lose a point but later on Haye did too... Seeing as you can't lose a point for tripping it was a far call.

I reckon Wlad's camp probably chose a smoother canvas cos they knew Haye would be moving a lot... But the ammount of times he slipped was ridiculous.

---

:vd: "Slipped"....really???

David Haye has a wide stance and when he throws looping/lunging hayemakers he's constantly off balance (which is how Monte Barrett knocked him down).

I think it was the decision of Haye and Booth that whenever Wlad leaned on him for David to go down and cry foul and see if they couldn't win a few points that way...fair play to them, but it eventually backfired and Haye ended up looking like Nani.

I couldn't believe how many times Haye looked at the ref for help...even when there were no fouls at all.

Gino did as good of a job as one could expect, both fighters were equally called out for their fouls and punished as such.

I actually thought he was inconsistent. the calls he made only came after remonstration from either camp. David Haye hitting around the back of the head didn't get a point and neither did blatant punching after the bell.

Because they weren't happening every 30 seconds. You don't take a point off for something like that unless it's done much worse or more frequently.

One thing I did like was that Wlad grabbed on to Haye and looked to Rodriguez to break them... but seeing as they weren't tied up and Haye was able to free himself he was happy enough to let Wlad get punched a hand full of times whilst trying to grapple Haye.

Lyle I'm really not going to bother discussing the 'slips' with you... I think as the fight went on the got more intentional... but you're a fool if you think that the klits would have picked anything but the perfect ring size/canvas.

...and before you get all excited - for the record, I am not saying that this had a drastic outcome on the fight. I think I've made it abundantly clear that I think Haye simply wasn't strong enough to stand in front of Wlad... so he couldn't ever be busy enough to win on points.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AdamGB

Because they weren't happening every 30 seconds. You don't take a point off for something like that unless it's done much worse or more frequently.

---

I guess I'd have to take a look at the rule book but I don't see why someone needs to violently and repeatedly punch someone after the bell more than once in order to get a points deduction ???

That ref deserves to be in the hall of fame now!!!
He did everything haye paid him to do and haye still lost to wlad who had a broken arm

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AdamGB

Because they weren't happening every 30 seconds. You don't take a point off for something like that unless it's done much worse or more frequently.

---

I guess I'd have to take a look at the rule book but I don't see why someone needs to violently and repeatedly punch someone after the bell more than once in order to get a points deduction ???

---

Because they may not have heard the bell. Or may struggle to immidieatly disengage from what they're doing.
Unless you've competed I doubt you'd understand the mentality you need to get in to.

If it happens the whole fight then you're looking at a point off or a DQ... once and the ref will just be looking for it happening again.

[QUOTE=AdamGB;989144]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AdamGB

Because they weren't happening every 30 seconds. You don't take a point off for something like that unless it's done much worse or more frequently.

---

I guess I'd have to take a look at the rule book but I don't see why someone needs to violently and repeatedly punch someone after the bell more than once in order to get a points deduction ???

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AdamGB

If it happens the whole fight then you're looking at a point off or a DQ... once and the ref will just be looking for it happening again.

---

Fair enough. It just seems a wee bit unjust that you can foul repeatedly regardless if it's violent or not. Seems daft.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AdamGB

Because they may not have heard the bell. Or may struggle to immidieatly disengage from what they're doing.
Unless you've competed I doubt you'd understand the mentality you need to get in to.

---

To be honest Adam, it really didn't look like that to me. Looked like Haye was completely frustrated and lashed out just to do some damage.