The World Against the USA

Come on. What's more fun that figuring out boxing matchups that never happened? OK, sure spending the weekend with Scarlett Johansen and a ready supply of Vitamin E, but what else?

The game today is throught history the US against the world by division. The guidelines are pretty simple. Try to pick the very best option from each and see how they match up. Fights are 15 rounds and all fighters are at their peak for these fights. Each man can only be used once.

105-Ricardo Lopez (world) v. Ivan Calderon (USA)-As good and fast as Iron Boy was at his very best, it is just very tough to figure out how he could do enough to actually beat Finito. The World by decision.

108-I think we've seen this in real life. Michael Carabajal v. Humberto Gonzales-The World could have chosen Jung Koo Chang here. In real life Carabajal came back from being in deep trouble to stop Chiquita and then Chiiquita won the last two fights more convincingly in my mind than the judges had it. The World by decision.

112-Jimmy Wilde v Fidel LaBarba-The World could easily have put The Ghost with the Hammer in his Hand at either 105 or 108 as Wilde probably NEVER fought above 105. He used to weigh-in fully clothed and with shoes on fer crissake. LaBarba was a teenaged champion and a crouching, lightning quick, light punching attacker. He could really move his feet. But I think coming at Jimmy Wilde? Not a great tactical idea. Fidel probably had no other choice. And one thing Fidel had going for him was a cast iron jaw. The World by decision.

115-Sadly this is a fight that actually could have happened and didn't. One of the real swing fights here. Johnny Tapia and Khaosai Galaxy. Classic boxer versus puncher match. Exuberance versus ice. Orthodox and southpaw. The great Graham Houston disagrees with me on this, he believes Tapia was disciplined enough and athletic enough to keep Galaxy away with his jab and his feet. I think at some point the Thai southpaw, who was utterly undiscourageable, finds a way to get close enough to hurt Tapia and change the complexion of the fight. The World by razor thin decision.

118-Eder Jofre v. Manuel Ortiz-Two men who could do everything in the ring. Attack, retreat, punch, move and think. But I think this is one of those fights where Jofre did each of those just a tiny bit better than the Californian. It's very tough to find a singular advantage that Ortiz could employ to gain victory. The World by decision.

122-Bazooka Gomez v. Erik Morales-Probably the finest two fighters ever to spend time in this division. After his first fight Bazooka KO'd every man he ever faced at 122, 37 straight IIRC. Terrible also never lost at this weight and also wiped out a series of ranked men. This really is a pick'em fight. My suspicion is that Morales has a chance to outbox Bazooka here but his ego makes him fight a gladiator's fight, the fight that best suits Gomez. I think it is a mistake that matters. The USA by decision.

126-Willie Pep v. Kid Chocolate-The World really has three good choices here. Mine, Johnny Dundee and Salvador Sanchez. It is my own view that the Cuban has the best chance to beat the obvious US choice, Pep. Why? because the guys who dominated Chocolate were the biggest punchers, and while Pep could punch? He was no Canzoneri. Chocolate also beat a whole series of movement oriented feathers and was unusually quick afoot. This would be an extreme tactical battle and the Cuban has a shot. But except when facing Sandy Saddler, Willie pep was as close to invincible as anyone in history. He has to be the betting choice. The USA by decision.

130-Floyd Mayweather v. Alexis Arguello-The classic boxer-puncher matchup. The Mayweather case says Arguello was made to look ordinary at times by men like Vilomar Fernandez and Ruben Castillo and so he'd never catch up to Floyd. The Arguello argument is yeah but Arguello almost always found a way to win even against good boxers and Floyd was threatened by attackers several cuts below Arguello in JC Castillo and Oscar and at 130 never faced anyone even remotely comparable to Arguello. Alexis is very dangerous for all fifteen rounds and Floyd would never be able to hurt him. Floyd would be getting booed all night long for his movement, but I think he gets a close decision. USA by close decision. (i HATE this pick!)

135-Benny Leonard v. Roberto Duran-In this matchup I defer to the man who trained both men, Ray Arcel. USA by decision.

140-Julio Cesar Chavez v. Aaron Pryor-For me this is an impossible pick to feel confident about. I suspect people could make two or three cases for either man and I'd likely nod and say "Yeah, that makes sense." Two absolute killers. Chavez was likely a bigger puncher than Arguello and one wonders whether the Hawk could handle shots Chavez would surely land. Hawk was likely considerably faster and probably had an edge in skill, though Chavez was highly skilled. I just get the sense (for tonight at least) that Pryor has two ways to win, by attacking and by boxing, and that that versatility might enable him to steal the occasional round by changing tactics. USA by controversial decision.

At intermission I have the matchup even at 5-5. But I could see folks strongly believing I have one or more of the fights at 115, 122, 130 and 140 wrong. I have the USA taking three of those four.

Everyone gone to the john and refilled the beverage of their choice? Good, here we go!

147-Mark Twain once said (paraphrase) "The greatest swordsman in the world needn't fear the second greatest...the person for him to fear is one who has never picked up a sword and so does the unexpected." That's how the World needs to think about beating Sugar Ray Robinson. Greats like Jose Napoles or Kid Gavilan (obviously) or Jimmy McLarnin aren't going to do it. The best choice? The physical freak himself Barbados Joe Walcott. 5'1 with a 20 inch neck and a 42 inch chest. He had the upper body of a light heavyweight and routinely KO'd heavyweights while never weighing more than 145or so. Probably one of the ten hardest punchers the game has ever known. But I just can't see Walcott winning. USA by decision.

154-Another fight that could have happened. The Hitman and the Bodysnatcher. I think one can reasonably see this fight in several ways, but here are two of them. The first is that Hearns was vulnerable to great body attacks. Not body attacks delivered by mortals, but those delivered by greats. Mike McCallum was one of those. The other side says McCallum admitted to being really stung by Julian Jackson. If that's true couldn't Hearns do what he did to Wilfredo Benitez, hurt McCallum early and then box him the rest of the way? Each is a decent case. My guess? Unlike Benitez, who preferred backing up, the Bodysnatcher preferred the pursuit and he'd never stop coming. My vote? The Bodysnatcher wears Hearns down late for our first KO. The World by KO.

160-As great as Harry Greb was? For this exercise he's tough because he was so unorthodox and we have only snippets of him which makes it tough to visualize how his style meshes with somebody else. While many historians would argue Stanley Ketchell should be the USA choice? i don't buy it. Marvelous Marvin Hagler come on down! The World choice is considerably easier. Ruby Robert Fitzsimmons. The Brit is taller, longer and probably the harder puncher. But he really fought in the transition era between the bare knuckles and when Dempsey revolutionized the big men. So Marvin's movement would likely be pretty foreign to Fitz. Both of these men also had concrete melons so I doubt anyone is getting KO'd. USA by decision.

168-I loathe what this division has been up until recently and so I am going to say no fight could be made because the World and USA camps could not agree where the fight should be held, what the purse split should be and who would get the free internet streaming revenue. Double DQ!

175-Ezzard Charles v. Sam Langford-In my view Ezzard is the greatest 175 ever to walk. He could do everything well. Punch, box, defend, think and pre-Sam Baroudi he was nasty in there. But once in a while Ezzard walked into a big shot. Jimmy Bivins had him on the floor five times, Lloyd Marshall almost killed him and Jaersey Joe (admittedly a heavy) one punched him. This is one of those matchup things. Sam Langford has an argument for being one of the five greatest punchers in history and when he had both eyes working? NO 175 stopped him. I think Ezzard wins most every minute of every round right up until the Canadian sets the perfect trap (that Ezzard up until now has always ferreted out) and boom! The World by KO.

Cruiser-Evander Holyfield v who? Seriously who is the best cruiser outside the USA? Tiozzo? Crous? Jirov? Huck? I have no idea. Just for fun I'm going to pick 13 who I think has as good a case as anyone. 13's speed means he could make a fight of this. But doesn't Evander eventually just out man him? USA by decision.

Heavy-Joe Louis v. Lennox Lewis. The USA could certainly choose Muhammad Ali and I think the World has no other real option unless they either choose one of the Klitschkos or go all the way back to Peter Jackson in the 1880's. Louis defeated men as large as Lennox and could fight at any pace, Lennox was KO'd twice by mediocrities and liked to fight at a measured pace and struggled with a guy Louis' size in Evander Holyfield. USA by KO.

That means the USA finishes ahead at 9-7 with AT LEAST the outcomes at 115, 122, 130, 140, 154 and 175 being controversial. Just for the record I had those six fights split evenly.
So where am I wrong? Have at it!

This is typical bias from USA judges. :)

I guess you are including Puerto Rico as the 51st state? Calderon and Gomez are from Puerto Rico.

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Originally Posted by killersheep

I guess you are including Puerto Rico as the 51st state? Calderon and Gomez are from Puerto Rico.

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USA certainly has some dubious team members.

Lennox Lewis would destroy Joe Louis. That's a "rest of the world" banker.

At 126 prime Hamed kills Pep. Fact. That's another banker for Team World.

At 168 Sven Ottke was unbeaten and unbeatable. Roy, Toney, Liles, Nunn, Dan Sherry... all get schooled.

This would be like the Ryder Cup. America have become an utter embarrassment . Fact.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by killersheep

I guess you are including Puerto Rico as the 51st state? Calderon and Gomez are from Puerto Rico.

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USA certainly has some dubious team members.

Lennox Lewis would destroy Joe Louis. That's a "rest of the world" banker.

At 126 prime Hamed kills Pep. Fact. That's another banker for Team World.

At 168 Sven Ottke was unbeaten and unbeatable. Roy, Toney, Liles, Nunn, Dan Sherry... all get schooled.

This would be like the Ryder Cup. America have become an utter embarrassment . Fact.

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I thought you were serious and i was with you until you mentioned Sven Ottke. :mad:

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Originally Posted by Master

This is typical bias from USA judges. :)

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Worse than the old East Germans huh?

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Originally Posted by killersheep

I guess you are including Puerto Rico as the 51st state? Calderon and Gomez are from Puerto Rico.

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Last I checked Puerto Rico was neither independent nor part of another country :)