Manny pacs prime?

Is everyone saying pac is out of his prime now? Whats the general feeling?

Pac is a great fighter..any boxing fan can respect that.

Pac and marquez had three great close fights with no clear winner it seems..it must be the opponent and not pacs peak falling.

If marquez was knocked out no one would mention the leg cramps or congress issues?

But can we clarify what everyone honestly thinks here before he fights mayweather next year as we shouldnt discredit marquez performance against an aggressive prime pacman.

I think most of us could agree that pac isn't in his physical prime anymore..

Ive been noticing his slippage for awhile now..

As you mention, he has had reocurring leg cramps and he seemed to be mentally distracted in his last fight. However, I am not ready to say that he is passed his prime. For example, I am not ready to say that if he were to step into the ring with an offensive fighter at that weight, say Bradley or Ortiz etc., that he would lose. I'm just not there yet. I'll wait to see what happens in his next fight though.

So it was nothing to do with marquez?
Im not starting beef and hating on pacman i just want to know if he didnt fight marquez would we be mentioning his prime?
Marquez fought a great fight against a great fighter.
To be honest i fought pac would ko marquez but as everyone seems to mention styles makes fights and marquez style will always be a problem so could we say that marquez was not in his prime either.?
Which one is it?

Marquez is not in his prime and he fought a prime pacman.
I would like to give credit to marquez for stepping up the plate and doing what he done in all the other fights..but unlike morrales he didnt get the decision

He might be on the slide now, but only time will tell.

He was at his absolute best versus Cotto and that wasn't all that long ago, but things change quickly in boxing.

he seems to have leg cramps against guys with footwork, how ironic, hes still in his "prime" perhaps hes on a shortage of juice

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Originally Posted by imp

Marquez is not in his prime and he fought a prime pacman.
I would like to give credit to marquez for stepping up the plate and doing what he done in all the other fights..but unlike morrales he didnt get the decision

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Frankly, I think it's all about styles and whether prime or not, Marquez's style will always give Pacquiao, prime or not, problems. Same probably goes for Cotto and Margarito. A bigger pressure fighter will give Cotto problems whether Margarito is passed his prime or not and whether Cotto is passed his prime or not. Same with Norton and Ali. Norton just gave Ali fits whether Ali was in his prime or not.

I think his true peak was the De La Hoya, Hatton and Cotto fights. He was just completely locked in physically, mentally, strategically, etc.

I think we need to remember that saying someone is past their prime doesn't necessarily mean they're on a major downslide. For example, I think Manny is technically past his peak, but I still think he's the 2nd best fighter in the world, and I think he can remain a top 2 PFP for the next couple years.

If he is indeed declining, I think it's not just about age. I think he's gotten bored, to be honest. After the Cotto fight, none of his next 3 fights presented him with a unique challenge. I think he knew he could beat Clottey, Margarito and Mosley without taking his game to another level. It's tough for a top fighter to maintain his sharpness when he doesn't feel like he's being truly challenged.

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Originally Posted by SweetPea

I think his true peak was the De La Hoya, Hatton and Cotto fights. He was just completely locked in physically, mentally, strategically, etc.

I think we need to remember that saying someone is past their prime doesn't necessarily mean they're on a major downslide. For example, I think Manny is technically past his peak, but I still think he's the 2nd best fighter in the world, and I think he can remain a top 2 PFP for the next couple years.

If he is indeed declining, I think it's not just about age. I think he's gotten bored, to be honest. After the Cotto fight, none of his next 3 fights presented him with a unique challenge. I think he knew he could beat Clottey, Margarito and Mosley without taking his game to another level. It's tough for a top fighter to maintain his sharpness when he doesn't feel like he's being truly challenged.

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I thought he looked damn good in the Clottey and Margarito fights and I thought he showed up in the Margarito fight. He was on fire that night.

Manny prime was beating Barrera to Margarito with the Cotto fight being the most exciting, Hatton fight the most destructive, ODH fight the highest profile, Margarito the most impressive.

When Pacquiao beat Barrera and Morales, it had been said that both were past their primes, that both had been through too many wars and taken too much punishments

Barrera first fought Manny as his 62nd fight when he was 29. Morales first lost to Pacquiao in his 52nd fight at age 29. The 3rd Pacquiao - Marquez fight was their 59th and 60th fights, respectively. By the standards that were placed on Barrera and Morales with regards to their decline, do these also apply to Pacquiao and Marquez? To put it in perspective, Bernard Hopkins, already 46, had only 60 fights.

Even though Pacquiao and Marquez are separated by 6 years of age, JMM only has 1 fight over Pac overall. This does not, however, belittle in any way JMM's excellent performance in that last fight. This is just to show to those who consider the number of fights that a boxer had as a significant factor in their decline, that they are almost equal in that regard.

I believe that Pacquiao is already on a decline, and so is Marquez. The question is HOW MUCH of a decline is it? It's deceptive to base it on their last fight since both appears to be tailor-made for each other. Neither has a convincing win over the other. There is no scientific method by which we can measure the decline. What we can only do is speculate.

Btw, I have Pacquiao's peak as being from dela Hoya to Margarito.

But then it goes back to the styles make fights comment.

Cotto might have been a great fight for manny and might look as though that was his peak but if he would have fought marquez at that point the same thing would have happened.?!

What im trying to say is that manny went up in weight and looked superb against these top rank fighters that were everthing that marquez wasnt!

I know things change in boxing but after two fights with marquez already and a snorefest against mosely which also gave him problems tells me that no matter what freddie, bob or alex do for manny he cannot adapt in whatever form he is in and beat and dominate a marquez type of fighter.

His peak was the same through all the marquez fights but he could not adjust and beat him completely.

Back to the drawing board for freddie because they must now prove this to the boxing fans and awaiting counterpunchers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SweetPea

I think his true peak was the De La Hoya, Hatton and Cotto fights. He was just completely locked in physically, mentally, strategically, etc.

I think we need to remember that saying someone is past their prime doesn't necessarily mean they're on a major downslide. For example, I think Manny is technically past his peak, but I still think he's the 2nd best fighter in the world, and I think he can remain a top 2 PFP for the next couple years.

If he is indeed declining, I think it's not just about age. I think he's gotten bored, to be honest. After the Cotto fight, none of his next 3 fights presented him with a unique challenge. I think he knew he could beat Clottey, Margarito and Mosley without taking his game to another level. It's tough for a top fighter to maintain his sharpness when he doesn't feel like he's being truly challenged.

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Completely agree.